The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: TAB on June 06, 2018, 06:53:57 PM
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So I got a set of plans 2 weeks ago for a car port rated for solar panels. The main reason for the car port is for place too put the panels. So I worked up a bid for the structure. During that I was trying too figure out how much power the panels would actually produce. So after doing all the math on the panels+ the structure, the roi for the panels+ the structure is 34 years. That is assuming static 3% increase a year. The kicker is, the panels have 20 year life span. So the time frame f9r the panels pay off is greater, then the life span of the panels. After bringing this up with the company, they still want too do it as they " want too save the enviroment" I highly doubt the energy they will produce will even come close too the energy needed too produce the steel too build the structure.
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You hit the nail on the head, tab - the state of solar energy in a nutshell right there.
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Local national park got a grant for a total solar system for the visitors center. Big splash in the paper about all the "savings". I wrote a letter to the editor explaining, that had they invested the money in AAA bonds, they could pay the old electric bill and had a equal amount of income, in perpetuity. Not to mention, of course, the maintenance and replacement cost after 20 years.
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Alf also hit the nail on the head - Grant. Many of our "green" efforts do not work out without government grants or force. Look at the hybrid automobile. How many would be on the road if not for the large tax credits you get for buying it. Tax credit = Cold hard cash to pay your taxes aka bribe to do what the government wants.
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Several years ago I read about someone in the U.S. who bought a bunch of solar panels that were made in Australia. They followed the instructions to the letter, including the part that said your solar panels should face north. That's okay in the Southern Hemisphere, but they were facing as far away from the sun as possible here in the U.S.
It turns out almost all solar panels in the U.S. are facing the wrong way anyway. They should face west instead of south to get the afternoon sun. The reason is they'll make about 50% more energy during peak power demand hours when the vast majority of power is used. You can face them south if you want the most energy at noon but practically nothing in the evening, or west if you if you want the most energy in the afternoon and evening when you need it the most.
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This whole wind and solar thing is nothing but a big ruse that will NEVER pan out to provide us with the amount of power we require. It's much the same with all of these electric cars. They will never replace fuel efficient gasoline models. They just won't, because they can't.
The problem with electricity is it has to be transmitted and used the instant it is made. Storage is a serious problem. Bill Gates calculated that all of the batteries on planet Earth fully charged to 100% capacity, would only hold 10 minutes of the total power required in the world today. It will be decades before that improves to a level that will make electric cars compatible with high mileage gasoline vehicles.
Right now you can put 16 gallons of gas into a gas tank of a fuel efficient car, and it will take you 550 miles or more. And when it's empty it can be refilled in a couple of minutes and you're off again. Electric cars are decades away from competing with that.... If they ever will.
And as far as the world "running out" of gas. They were saying that in the 70's during the Carter Administration. We're no closer to that now, than we were then. And we're currently finding new oil reserves faster than we can deplete the old one's.
But if the supply were to to seriously diminish, the price will begin to increase dramatically. This added cost will then help drive new ways of powering vehicles. And squeeze even more mileage out of the fuel that remains. As always it will be money and profitability within the private sector that will drive this. Not some professor at Berkeley gluing solar panels on a wooden car that weighs 120 pounds, that you have to lay down in to drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHTmEUGR7c
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The best use of solar panels is for tending stored batteries, like a trickle charger. Even then I had to modify the one I have (keeping up the battery in my older truck) for it to put out full voltage in varying light conditions.
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After all of this you still have to think of the cost of making the electricity. It's generated by a plant, or it's collected through solar, wind, or other. The machinery and circuitry that does that is costly and uses a lot of resources. AND batteries are a big component...the toxicity and cost of batteries, disposal problems, heavy metals... the "green" energy isn't green at all.
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After all of this you still have to think of the cost of making the electricity. It's generated by a plant, or it's collected through solar, wind, or other. The machinery and circuitry that does that is costly and uses a lot of resources. AND batteries are a big component...the toxicity and cost of batteries, disposal problems, heavy metals... the "green" energy isn't green at all.
Yep.
And a lot of folks have made a bundle of loot because they convinced people these things are a viable option.
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You guys just don't understand.
They need to do Something!. It doesn't matter that it doesn't help at all and, most often, makes things worse. Doing that Something! makes them feel so good about themselves and gets them off the hook for something more difficult that might do some actuall good.
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I have solar on my well with battery back up. That way I always have water. I also have a auto generator ( many portables too) not that ibam worried about extreme outages, but cheap insurance is nice.
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TAB,
Have you ever heard of Natural Gas being cut off to homes in an emergency? I've been tossing around possibly getting one of those "whole house" generators. Most run on Natural Gas. I've never heard of gas service being disrupted. Except of course in a major earthquake, where mains get ruptured. But that's quite rare compared to electric service going out.
Right now my only generator is a little 600 watt portable Honda I bought back in the 80's. It still runs like a top. But 600 watts won't even run a fridge.
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TAB,
Have you ever heard of Natural Gas being cut off to homes in an emergency? I've been tossing around possibly getting one of those "whole house" generators. Most run on Natural Gas. I've never heard of gas service being disrupted. Except of course in a major earthquake, where mains get ruptured. But that's quite rare compared to electric service going out.
Right now my only generator is a little 600 watt portable Honda I bought back in the 80's. It still runs like a top. But 600 watts won't even run a fridge.
That appears to be a viable choice, Bill. The last place to run out of fuel would be the NG supply point. Also, as a backup, the do make those NG generators as 3 fuel types...NG, LP and gasoline...only thing missing would be fuel oil and having a 200 gal tank out back.. You can get them set up to kick in when your normal power goes out, so you won't see much down time if you go that route.
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Bill, Mr Bane has a full system at his bunker, maybe you can send him a PM or he’ll chime in...
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Solar makes sense in the right situation. For emergency and shtf, yes, not when local power is running 10 cents a kWh. Of course if someone gives it too you one then by all means take it.
Cars have a different problem. It's not so much how far they will go on a charge, though that's part of it, but where do you charge them, and how long does it take? A new model Tesla might get me from here to Lake City, but how long do I cool my heels waiting to "fill up"? 16 hours on a 120V charger. 4-6 on a 240V one? Even 1-2 hours on a super charger, if I can find one, adds interminable time to my trip.
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TAB,
Have you ever heard of Natural Gas being cut off to homes in an emergency? I've been tossing around possibly getting one of those "whole house" generators. Most run on Natural Gas. I've never heard of gas service being disrupted. Except of course in a major earthquake, where mains get ruptured. But that's quite rare compared to electric service going out.
Right now my only generator is a little 600 watt portable Honda I bought back in the 80's. It still runs like a top. But 600 watts won't even run a fridge.
A fridge? 600 watts won't even run a coffee maker. I found a cheap $30 Mr. Coffee online and the specs said it's 900 watts. That's the same as my microwave, which is less powerful than most.
I've had natural gas for 27 years here and a couple of years at my last address. I've never had any interruption in all that time, except when I got a new meter. That may have taken 5 minutes.
In regards to my earlier post, I sometimes get emails from the power company to do surveys, and I filled one out today. They talked about how they charge a higher rate for electricity after the first 600 kilowatt hours of use per month, from June-September, and the regular rate for the rest of the year. They asked if I'd rather pay a higher rate 2pm-7pm on weekdays year-round, or just keep it the way it is. I use more than 600 kilowatt hours of electricity per month running 2 window air conditioners and a box fan. For the time being I pay more for electricity in the summer, but maybe they'll start charging me more every weekday of the year instead. Either way I'll be paying more during the peak demand time of the year, or the peak demand time of the week. Both are times when west facing solar panels would actually help.
My house is small and square and has a pyramid hip roof. If the east, south, and west sides of the roof were all covered with solar panels, I still don't know if would be enough to run an air conditioner, or even a coffee maker.
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Coffee makers will draw more power than a refrigerator. Devices that generate heat quickly draw the power. Toasters, coffee makers, electric skillets, etc.
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Coffee makers will draw more power than a refrigerator. Devices that generate heat quickly draw the power. Toasters, coffee makers, electric skillets, etc.
I know that anything that makes heat uses a lot of electricity, but some fridges use 750-800 watts. I thought it was actually more when the compressor kicks in. My friend used, I think, an 1800 watt or bigger generator at his cabin until he got it hooked up to the power grid. With nothing else running you could tell by the sound of the generator when his little fridge kicked in.
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Affordable solar cell technology that is 30% efficient and lasts for 20 years is needed for solar power to make economic sense. There is research technology out there that is 40+% efficient but it may cost 20-100 times as much as a 10% cell...it's research for product development not product.
15 years ago it would have cost me $185k to get off the grid with a payout around 24-30 years as I recall. A big problem is that, despite cells having a "20 year life" their efficiency degrades way before that being "good" for 8-12 years.
Bill, that's a good point on natural gas because it is reliable supply since it's coming from high pressure pipelines not generally connected to electricity but compressed with their own gas fueled prime movers driving the compressors from the wellhead to the home. Another great point on natural gas is that the engines are really clean and will be really reliable to start and run for when you need them. Propane and butane natural gas liquids stored in a tank powering a generator closely follow natural gas on reliability. However, any natural gas or NGL generator will be expensive to run. The least expensive standby with the most power per $$$ of fuel is diesel. Not quite as reliable overall compared to natural gas but the best bang for the buck. Myself, I'm acquiring a Lister type slow speed diesel because they are the most reliable diesel, can burn cooking oil once warmed up and unlike all the other stuff can be trouble-shot and worked on by a child....and survive EMP since they are all mechanical...I'm drawing up a place to put one or two this month.
Another problem with solar people forget...the cells get dust on them and lose sunlight and therefore output...so they are not 100% maintenance free they need cleaning.
For a refrigerator I like the natural gas or propane units. They aren't cheap...but no electricity at all for off-the-grid operations or to have a working refrigerator/freezer post EMP event. Medium sized ones run with about 0.7 gallons a day of propane and I have an underground 500 gallon tank (usable volume only 400 gallons). That alone will supply a 18-19 months of refrigeration and freezing for ~$40 a month in I-don't-care-if-there-is-no-electricity fuel use.
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I don't have the option for natural gas at my house. It is propane or Nothing at All. I have two thousand gallon tanks, they are about 4 feet in diameter and about 16 feet long. Yes it hurts when the propane guy comes to fill up but I don't have to do it often
As to the question about natural gas generators, most of them have conversion kits so you can run them on propane. None of which are plug-and-play though. You normally have to do things like change orifice and occasionally diaphragms. They normally take about 10 minutes to do, but if it's in bad weather
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If you have a diesel generator how long can the unused fuel sit around and still be good? AFAIK it doesn't go bad quickly like gas does. I've had treated gasoline in storage up to 2 years that still worked but I think it's better if it's used in 6 months, treated or not. The good news is whatever gas you keep in cans can be dumped in your car and replaced with fresh gas whenever you want. You wouldn't have to worry about using stale gas in a gas-fueled generator.
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As long as it has no water in it and a dieselside(bacteria can grow in it) it will last longer then we will. The issue with modern diesel is the methonal they add when making bio diesel( which can be up too 10% with out even telling you at the pump)
I have 2500 gallon tank right now for my excavators and several truck mounted tanks. I buy the off highway fuel as it does not contain bio fuels( unless you want it too) and it's cheaper. Just don't get caught with it in your tank. Standard policy with my employees, you put it into a company truck, the duel won't be the only thing pink.
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The good news is whatever gas you keep in cans can be dumped in your car and replaced with fresh gas whenever you want.
I thought about that. But if the gas is treated with Sta-Bil Storage, and Ethanol Shield, will it hurt the catalytic converter, or screw up the oxygen sensors?
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Sta-Bil says: For all gasoline engines, including 2-Cycle. Use in your vehicles, motorcycles, small engines, generators, boats; and: Effective in all gasoline, including Ethanol and Non-Ethanol.
Ethanol Shield, which I don't think I've heard of, says: Works in all 2 & 4 cycle engines; and also: EPA-registered, including automobile use.
I can't connect to Ethanol Shield's website for more information.
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The issue with modern diesel is the methonal they add when making bio diesel( which can be up too 10% with out even telling you at the pump)
BULLSHIT!!!
Bio diesel is not made from alcohol!
Bio diesel is a vegetable oil (typically soybean oil) or animal fats from rendering.
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There is an algae that can grow in diesel fuel. The fuel is still good, and the engine will run on it. However, it will plug your filters quickly. There are many fuel additives on the market that will keep the algae from growing.
When we were farming I ran a Schaffers product through the diesel. We usually bought 5,000 gallons at a time, and there were a couple seasons a year where the fuel could sit for awhile, especially the #1.
For gas, I use SeaFoam in all my small engine gas. I am currently using some mixed gas that I found on a shelf just before we moved. I have two cans for mixed gas, because I would use so much when I got working on projects. I set the cans aside and lost track of one. The best I can remember is that it is over two years since I had everything out and going on a project. The trimmer is running great on it.
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BULLSHIT!!!
Bio diesel is not made from alcohol!
Bio diesel is a vegetable oil (typically soybean oil) or animal fats from rendering.
What is Biodiesel?
We make biodiesel from vegetable oil; biodiesel is NOT vegetable oil. We can add vegetable oil to diesel as a diesel fuel extender, but only for a few tanks. Blending vegetable oil with diesel over the long run damages the engine and shortens its usable life. Vegetable oil is thicker or more viscous than diesel and does not burn efficiently in a fuel system designed for diesel fuel. So, we chemically alter vegetable oil into biodiesel using a process called transesterification.
Vegetable oil is three long chains of hydrocarbons (carbon and hydrogen atoms) glued to an alcohol molecule called glycerin. The chemical process swaps out the glycerin molecule with three methanol molecules. Since the reaction is reversible, we use an excess of methanol to drive the reaction in the direction of methyl esters (biodiesel). Transesterification needs a strong base as a catalyst to get the reaction going. The glycerin separates from the biodiesel with the help of gravity.
http://www.make-biodiesel.org/Introduction-to-Biodiesel/what-is-biodiesel.html
Make Your Own Biodiesel
Biodiesel is made from vegetable and animal oils and fats, or triglycerides. Biodiesel cannot be made from any other kinds of oil (such as used engine oil).
Chemically, triglycerides consist of three long-chain fatty acid molecules joined by a glycerine molecule. The biodiesel process uses a catalyst (lye) to break off the glycerine molecule and combine each of the three fatty-acid chains with a molecule of methanol, creating mono-alkyl esters, or Fatty Acid Methyl Esters (FAME) -- biodiesel. The glycerine sinks to the bottom and is removed.
The process is called transesterification.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
How To Make Biodiesel With A Commercial Kit
There's quite a bit of chemistry involved in transforming vegetable oil into biodiesel, in a process known as transesterification. Vegetable oil (VO) is made up of chains of fatty acids held together by glycerol molecules. Methanol breaks those chains of fatty acids apart. The corrosive, alkaline lye (sodium hydroxide, although you can also use potassium hydroxide) breaks the glycerol (a heavy alcohol) off those chains and the methanol (a light alcohol) in turn takes the place of the glycerol, leaving shorter, lighter, more combustible molecules. The result is an oil that burns well as a direct replacement for petroleum-based diesel fuel, with 12 to 15 percent glycerin left over at the bottom of the tank. The lye acts only as a catalyst in this case, and isn't consumed in the process.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a4717/4332200/
First, vegetable or animal fats and oils are triglycerides (TGs), composed of three chains of fatty acids bound together by a glycerine molecule.
Triglycerides are esters. Esters are acids, such as fatty acids, combined with an alcohol, and glycerine (glycerol) is a heavy alcohol.
The transesterification process converts triglyceride esters into mono-alkyl esters (biodiesel) by means of a catalyst (lye) and an alcohol reagent, usually methanol, which yields methyl esters biodiesel -- the methanol replaces the glycerine.
In transesterification the triglyceride molecule is broken into three separate methyl ester molecules plus glycerine as a by-product. The lye catalyst breaks the bond holding the fatty acid chains to the glycerine, the glycerine falls away, and each fatty acid chain then bonds with a methanol molecule.
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BULLSHIT!!!
Bio diesel is not made from alcohol!
Bio diesel is a vegetable oil (typically soybean oil) or animal fats from rendering.
look at how they process it and what they do to make it work in cold weather. You will not be happy
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To me putting biodiesel in an expensive diesel engine, is like drinking recycled waste water after the piss and $h!t has been cleaned out of it. I know with today's technology it can be done, but I'll let someone else do it and tell me how wonderful it is.
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The methanol is used to break down the waxes and allow the fats to blend with the petroleum. If you do not use some type of emulsifier, like an alcohol, to start the process, the two fuels will not blend. It is the same as a fuel line antifreeze. The base is alcohol, because the water will not blend with gasoline without an emulsifier. The bio in biodiesel is vegetable or animal fats. It is not methanol or ethanol.
In the area we just left, we had several bio blenders, including on farm operations.
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To me putting biodiesel in an expensive diesel engine, is like drinking recycled waste water after the piss and $h!t has been cleaned out of it. I know with today's technology it can be done, but I'll let someone else do it and tell me how wonderful it is.
Bio is better for your engine than petroleum. Better lubricity and less contamination of oil. Also, no practical loss of power. Farmers have used, tested, and experimented with this longer than it has been on the open market or required by the government.
The biggest issue is getting it well blended for a uniform percentage (if they separate you will get changing percentages as you go through tanks of fuel), and breakdown of waxes (so you don't plug filters in cold weather).
If your vehicle or equipment is set up, and your operating procedures are based to run #2 year round, you could run pure bio oil year round. Running biodiesel is no different than running methane, alcohol, LP or CNG. It is all about your equipment and the operator.
While we are in the midst of a like/hate fuel argument: Who's fault is the lack of compatibility of some small engines and alcohol blended fuels? Is it the fuel, or is it the manufacturers, who after decades of blended fuels, refuse to move away from obsolete materials in their products?
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Just throwing this out there, but diesel engines are not called that because of the fuel but because of Rudolf Diesel who was one of the chief developers of the engine type. He originally developed the engine to run on coal dust and experimented with vegetable oils and peanut oil. Diesel fuel that was distilled from petroleum came much later in diesel engine development.
Side note: When my younger son was in FFA, they had a small bio-diesel making unit that was a big enough deal that the governor came to view the process. The process involved used vegetable oil mixed with methanol and lye in a multi-step process. If the process went as planned, you got diesel. If it went wrong, you got hand soap (and yes, we had several gallons of hand soap that was the consistency of GoJo at home). ;D
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I've got bad news for you Bill. Almost every single molecule of water on Earth has been drunk by a dinosaur, passed through its kidneys, and been pissed out into the same water supply we still have. It's all toilet-to-tap at some level.
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Biodiesel is Fatty Acid Methyl Esters, a type of fatty acid ester made by transesterification of fats with methanol. That's why it has Methyl in the name of it. Using a catalyst, the glycerine molecules break off and each of the three fatty-acid chains combines with a molecule of methanol. It's not oil mixed with methanol, and the methanol isn't just an emulsifier, it's part of each molecule of biodiesel. They start out with vegetable oil and gets turned it into biodiesel. It's no longer vegetable oil at that point. It really is that simple. Whether methanol is used to blend it with diesel fuel after that, I don't know. Biodiesel can be used by itself as long as it's not cold out. It doesn't need to be mixed with diesel fuel because it is fuel, not a fuel additive.
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You're pickin' nits when it comes to the terms here.
I've witnessed the process myself, live and in living color in a machine similar to the one in the video... and burned the stuff in a tractor.
Here's an over-simplified video.
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Search for Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs on the subject. Guy was brewing bio on saved Mexican restaurant oils.
His lil pick up drove down the road smelling like tacos!
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Search for Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs on the subject. Guy was brewing bio on saved Mexican restaurant oils.
His lil pick up drove down the road smelling like tacos!
I may have seen that one but can't be sure. I saw a TV show where some guys didn't actually make biodiesel, but strained and filtered used cooking oil from restaurants. They converted a diesel engine to run on it and drove their van around smelling like fried chicken. I think they drove across the country, but it's been too long to remember. People have converted diesel cars and trucks too.
A bunch of college students went 10,000 miles in 12-ton diesel bus converted to run on vegetable oil. They had to start it up on diesel fuel to warm up the engine and the oil first, then switched over to oil they got from restaurants. If they used biodiesel instead they could have just filled the tank and drove around without converting the engine, but they were trying to prove it could be done.
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And just what exactly is all of this "Bio Diesel" supposed to save?
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And just what exactly is all of this "Bio Diesel" supposed to save?
Using a readily available surplus or waste product in place of a product that is in high demand and has limited availability.
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Using a readily available surplus or waste product in place of a product that is in high demand and has limited availability.
Which you can brew yourself for far less than pump fuel with no further taxes to the scum sucking gubmint...
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When I had my Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel back in 1979, the thing I loved about it was the smell of the diesel exhaust. I wouldn't want the thing to smell like the inside of a McDonald's.
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At least McD’s don’t give me a headache! Only the shites!
LOL
I’ll never own a diesel because of the stank...
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Which you can brew yourself for far less than pump fuel with no further taxes to the scum sucking gubmint...
not true, you have too pay your taxes it you use it on the road
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not true, you have too pay your taxes it you use it on the road
A better reference would be: Not entirely true. You still pay the excise, road, and sales tax, but you miss out on a portion of the taxation associated with the oil company drilling and pumping. The higher the blend of bio, the lower the hidden taxes.
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not true, you have too pay your taxes it you use it on the road
Phuque ‘em and their taxes!
Remember we’re all felons according to TAB! What’s a few bucks in home fuel taxes gonna add to my punishment!
LOL
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Using a readily available surplus or waste product in place of a product that is in high demand and has limited availability.
BINGO! We have a winner. Why pump new oil out of the ground when you can get it at KFC or McDonalds? They might let you have it for free so they don't have to pay someone else to haul it away.
Timothy's right about the price too. A 12 year old article I saw online said you can make it for 80 cents per gallon, but you may spend $2,900 on equipment. At officialbiodiesel.com, which should be up to date, it says you can figure on it costing around $1.25 per gallon in chemicals, water & electricity to make your fuel. So if you get the oil for free, after a few hours of work spread out over a couple of days, you can have 40 gallons of $1.25 a gallon diesel, using the same equipment they did.
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When I had my Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel back in 1979, the thing I loved about it was the smell of the diesel exhaust. I wouldn't want the thing to smell like the inside of a McDonald's.
Try jogging behind a bus and you won't like the smell of diesel exhaust anymore. ;D I'm glad our city switched a lot of buses over to propane. The exhaust seems non-existent in comparison to the diesels pulling away from a stop sign. They run cleaner than biodiesel and can go longer between oil changes too.
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BINGO! We have a winner. Why pump new oil out of the ground when you can get it at KFC or McDonalds? They might let you have it for free so they don't have to pay someone else to haul it away.
Timothy's right about the price too. A 12 year old article I saw online said you can make it for 80 cents per gallon, but you may spend $2,900 on equipment. At officialbiodiesel.com, which should be up to date, it says you can figure on it costing around $1.25 per gallon in chemicals, water & electricity to make your fuel. So if you get the oil for free, after a few hours of work spread out over a couple of days, you can have 40 gallons of $1.25 a gallon diesel, using the same equipment they did.
Exactly.
Prices on equipment has probably went up since the last time I talked to the guy, but a dentist in a neighboring town built himself a personal facility back about nine years ago. The initial overhead wasn't too bad, the processor he bought was around $5000 (higher end unit then) and about that much for a 20x20 building. He had local area restaurants giving him the old oil free in exchange for him picking it up. Based on the prices of chemicals then he was making fuel for around 90 cents per gallon way back in 2009.
Even at today's prices, with pump diesel in our area hovering just under $4.00 per gallon, $1.25 ain't too bad.
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And I just ditched my diesel F250 for a gas F150.....
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These newer clean diesels can't be compared to diesels of old. They not only don't smoke, but if you look inside their tailpipes, they are as clean as any new gas vehicle... Zero soot. The downside is the DEF system. But from what I'm reading they are quite dependable and foolproof. And they'll only get better as time goes on. And they use very little DEF Fluid. A 5 or 7 gallon tankful lasts several thousand miles. And you can buy it most everywhere.
If I had one I certainly wouldn't be burning recycled French Fry grease in it. It just doesn't make any sense trying to save a few bucks on fuel in a $85K truck. And many times Bio Diesel costs as much or more than standard diesel fuel. And they all get such great mileage, and are so clean running in the first place, there is no point.
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You have heard wrong. They get crappy mileage and are not that reliable. They are getting better, but it's slow just like in the 70 and 80s with gas emissions controls.
My 97 gets almost 8 mpg better then my 2016.
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The economy on the new engines is good, but def sucks! We go through about a gallon per 35 gallons of fuel. Then you deal with break downs. 80% of our breakdowns are def related.
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Do ALL new diesels require DEF?
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Do ALL new diesels require DEF?
Since around mid-2010 they do.
The DEF is 37.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water.
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Since around mid-2010 they do.
The DEF is 37.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water.
Piss.
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We go through about a gallon per 35 gallons of fuel. Then you deal with break downs. 80% of our breakdowns are def related.
Is that in big semi's?
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Yes, but if you pull hard with your pickup the ratio is the same. We also end up using a higher rate during idle.