The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: alfsauve on August 27, 2012, 08:18:40 AM
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The latest issue of Rifle Magazine (Fall 2012) is dedicated to 7mm. Actually mostly dedicated to 7x57. Very good reading. Interesting information. So, being easily swayed I decided I'd consider adding a 7x57 to my collection. What I really want is a Tikka T3 Lite, so I go on a search.
BUT NO-O-O-O-O-O-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
It seems that besides the Ruger #1 Int, nobody is making 7x57s anymore. Well I mean besides the custom makers, but I don't have $6k for a Dakota. I checked: CZ, Tikka, Ruger, Browning, Winchester, Remington, & Savage. Who'd I miss? Anybody seen other sources?
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Gunbroker has quite a few, more Rugers (M77s) and a variety of Mausers, but I assume you are looking for NIB?
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Old Mauser's
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Old Mauser's
Old Mauser's what?
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Mauser 95's, Most of those made for South American countries and the Boers were chambered in 7mm.
I also remember seeing some Mauser 98's chambered for 7 X 57 but I don't recall who they were made for.
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Yeah, I'm partial to NIB for rifles so I can screw them up myself.
After a little research and thought on the subject, if I do go looking for a 7mm I think I'll have to pass on the 7x57. Just looked through the latest MidwayUSA flyer and they don't list any brass or ammo for 7x57. (I know they carry it, it just wasn't in the flyer which means it's going to limited and expensive to get.) It seems the 7-08 is doing well though and that was back to my original strategic plan to stick with the .308 case for all basic mid-level power range rifles. Plus as I've read on other forums, I've got 308 brass I can neck down and use.
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I have thought about jumping on the 7mm wagon and a buddy of mine that shoots a lot of precision shooting suggested the 7mm WSM. Fast, short action and its 7mm so all the cool bullets can be used. He even suggested picking up a Howa because its pretty cheap for the performance it delivers.
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Howa. Hadn't looked at their offerings. Also I overlooked Mossberg.
I'm not sold on the Rummy-Wusums. I'll stick with tried and true '06 & '08 cases.
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Hold me back. Hold me back.
First I overlooked, Marlin and T/C of production grade rifle. But no 7x57's there either.
So I was just about to scratch the 7x57 off my list as an impulse that I really didn't need. Then I see this NIB CZ550 on GunsAmerica for $680.
Argh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h.
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;D Temptation's a bitch, ain't it? ;)
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The 7x57mm Mauser is a great round for hunting and getting juniors started with center fire rifles. Heck I cut my teeth with a pair of Spanish and Peruvian Mausers. The best thing to do is look for a old battle rifle and get the action. Howa makes nice action and so does Savage. Maybe a custom build, heck there is always 7mm 08.
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Now I've done it.
Put a bid in on the '95 Chilean Mouse on Gun Broker. Crappy, "home boy" camo job on the stock, but it was customized with an E.R. Shaw barrel and a Timney Trigger. I've probably bid too much, but I just have a gut feel this is a good find.
If this falls through there's a Brazil Mauser Model 1908 at Cash America that's less than $100. I could probably customize that myself. Then there's still the CZ 550 NIB and a early model Ruger 77 up for auction next week.
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The M63 is another option in 7.62.
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I should have come to you first Mauserman for advice on various Mausers
However, the point of this is an impulse to own a 7x57mm.
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The Mausers from Chile and Argentina make some of the best surplus shooters I have ever owned. I not to long ago bought a Chinese Mauser in 8mm for $200. The 7x57 is soft shooting compared to the 8mm, and a great all around cartridge. They seem to be getting hard to come by but once you have one they seem to follow you to the range. I am not making any promises but I can look for one and Ill let you know what I find.
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[Thanks, Mauser. Once I get this one in house and evaluate it I may be calling for advice.]
Okay, I got me a 7x57. Have to 'splain to the wife tonight what I did. Usually works if I say, "it was a bargain."
Here's the picture and i know the stock is "home boy camo", but I think except for the stock this is a real jewel. I've talked to the gun shop and they're surprised it wasn't snapped up for more. Shows you how important good looks are.
I'm betting I can sand down that stock and make it right again. Maybe I'll do it all black or a real dark mahogany stain!
(http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/304403000/304403920/pix350689426.jpg)
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The current issue of Handloader magazine showed up today. You think since it and Rifle are sister, alternating, publications that this issue would have been full of 7x57 reloading info. But no. They only talk about the 8x57.
Alright, hitting the reloading books and web sites. Adding dies and brass to my MidwayUSA wish list.
So many cartridges, so little time.
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Its camoflaged you should have no problem sneaking it past the wife ;D
This would be the same one that has the aftermarket barrel you mentioned before? An ER Shaw if IIRC.
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The last three rifles I purchased there was a bit of how you say not telling the truth. I usually find pictures a beater rifles and give those prices and then she doenst saying thing when I bring them home. There was the time I left the paper work on the kitchen counter though. That got a bit painful. My Kimber Super America in .338 win mag was so worth it. Dude that ghetto a camo should come off right off, then check for headspace and go for it. Now you have a project gun with a nice montecarlo stock.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2010/09/23/longgun_reviews_st_boermodel_201007/
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http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/463070/loadbooks-usa-7x57mm-mauser-7mm-mauser-reloading-manual
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Yes, Magoo. This one has the ER Shaw Barrel and the Timney trigger.
I'm thinking of a laminated stock. Maybe something in a black and white.
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Yes, Magoo. This one has the ER Shaw Barrel and the Timney trigger.
I'm thinking of a laminated stock. Maybe something in a black and white.
Why? Right now you're a shoe in to win any "ugliest gun" contest you enter. Why screw up a good thing? ;D The sad thing is that the previous owner spent a whole lotta time making it look that awful. Someone should buy him an X box to distract him before he strikes again. If you go with a laminate can you free float the barrel?
FQ13
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Alf, now that you have the 7x57 out of the way, time to get a 6.5x55 Swede.
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Alf, now that you have the 7x57 out of the way, time to get a 6.5x55 Swede.
Swedish Mauser, you WILL like it.
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Yes I got the rifle last Friday/ Sorry to have taken so long on an update, but things have been busy.
Yes, it is an ugly stock. Actually the stock underneath might be quite lovely. I'll see once I have it sanded down.
Here's some pictures.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ez-1DyOWNe0/UFnLvsypShI/AAAAAAAAugg/tQ3EwiGuW14/s918/IMG_7097.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YECDmHNka0U/UFnMymvcz8I/AAAAAAAAug0/E-14iD2uCCw/s1050/IMG_7102.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qG1D8TuTca4/UFnNXpsQ9xI/AAAAAAAAug8/uYg3h_mknQE/s918/IMG_7103.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-udwz6BL0SG8/UFnO4bcCnaI/AAAAAAAAuhc/JNgQg9MchGs/s1049/IMG_7111.JPG)
All appears in great mechanical condition. It's the first Mauser action I've worked with and is very educational. You can read all about "controlled feed" and rotating, non-flexible extractor, but I need to hold it, examine it and work it, before I "get" it. Ah Ha. Now that I've had time to play with it, I'm sort of middle of the road on this action. Don't particularly like the 3 position safety. The action's okay. You just have to remember you can't put a loose round in the chamber. And the "control feed" isn't nearly as what I'd thought based on other peoples pictures. The round doesn't become fully "seated" in the breech face until 3/4 of the way into battery. I think most pictures I've seen aren't truly representative of what happens. It is control, just not to the extent I'd believed.
So I took it out today. If you've watched me shoot in the DRTV postal match you know standing rifle isn't my strong suit. So be very impressed. 10 shots. One real flyer the others nicely centered. The peep sight and post are expressly for accuracy. A little too "fine" for my taste for the "field", but they'll do. The cover over the front sight is missing. I shot 5 rounds of 140gr ammo and 5 rounds of B&S 173gr. The 173's do kick a might more. All in all very pleasant to shoot.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kFF7VlMG8Nw/UFolk_sY0jI/AAAAAAAAuiQ/VI_ge44Gbrc/s612/MauserTarget.jpg)
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A lot of people remove the front sight cover for better visibility of the sight.
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A lot of people remove the front sight cover for better visibility of the sight.
Which in my way of thinking is backwards. I don't want to "see" the sight in and of itself. I want it to appear as dark as possible against the target. And I think Williams, who made the sight had that in mind when they included the cover.
But then that's just me. Others obviously think differently.
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The problem is that the hood casts a shadow so you don't see anything.
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http://www.jgsales.com/c-r-guns-c-290.html
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The hood is more to protect the front sight, depending on your eyesight, it can be very hard to focus on a sight in the shade.
That little bit of wood showing on cheekpiece looks like some pretty walnut under the camo, have much fun.
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And this is where I have a slightly different opinion on front sight hoods.
I believe, and I'm frequently wrong, that with a rifle you're not focusing on the front sight the same way you would a pistol. It's way-y-y-y out there. It's closer to the same focal plane as a target. What I want is a well defined, black sight that gives me a sharp sight picture. I want more direct sunlight on the target than on the front sight. Light on the front sight would is not desirable, but would cause the front sight to appear hazy or blurry or less defined. Less contrast to the target.
I also believe that a hood, in the field, is a detriment. Rather than protecting the front sight, they provide a place that can get clogged with dirt, snow and other debris making the sight unusable. And a clogged hood is not easy to clean out quickly
SO, where can I find support for my theory. What do the big boys, use?
If you accept Camp Perry as the definitive example of iron-sighted rifle shooting, then you'll notice many, if not most, use hooded front sights. I don't think that with the precision involved they would leave those hoods in place unless there was an sight picture advantage to using them. Protecting their front sights, at least while on the firing line, isn't a problem for them.
Then if you look at military arms, where front sight protection might be at a premium, none that I have found came with a complete hood. (There could be some, I'm not the definitive expert) Many have "wings" on either side. Wings would provide some protection but allow for quick removal of debris.
That's my belief. Fire away.
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Then if you look at military arms, where front sight protection might be at a premium, none that I have found came with a complete hood.
Most of the WWII and earlier Mausers were equipped with the hoods, Then there are AK's and SKS's.
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So right, Tom. Some did. Some didn't (AKs that is). And I'm no expert on Mausers.
I think though my statement about Camp Perry shooters will stand up. If it made a better sight picture without the hood, they'd be ditching them on the firing line.
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The front sight can be an issue for som shooters, I have yet had any problems sight in with either hood or no hood. The problem with most Mauser rifles is that there sighted in at 200m so they tend to shoot a bit high at 100m. Heck Mojo Peep sights make a nice replacement rear sight that really works. I have 91/30 Mosin I'm testing these sights on.
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Update on the project:
Here's pictures of the stock mostly sanded down. Still work to do around the pistol grip and cheek plate.
Look at the nice darker wood I found on the fore end and the pistol grip cap.
The fore end was also very square. Basically not finished but the raw end of the wood. I've contoured it some so that it's more pleasing. Once I have it all cleaned up then a sanding sealer is next. Probably several coats with sanded in between.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-26n1QeFbLHA/UGmLxmmmELI/AAAAAAAAuoY/CieSm2Odktc/s720/IMG_7185.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tKo-alq-BS4/UGmKSFjmqII/AAAAAAAAuoE/vw7YtJsc5Iw/s720/IMG_7183.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-axaTLHzf7iM/UGmK2takSTI/AAAAAAAAuoM/brKC7wcl8zA/s720/IMG_7184.JPG)
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Looks like it should finish nicely. Wonder why Billy decided to cammo it up?
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Darn, just missed out on a Remington 700 with Leupold 2-7x scope that went at auction for $525. I knew I should have set a higher max.
There will be others I'm sure.
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I'm staining the stock on the 1893 this week. Will post pictures later on of my progress.
There is a pre-76 Ruger M77 (tang safety) on Gun Broker right now. The seller posted 2 dozen guns and forgot to put a reserve on this one. GB won't let him cancel. He's posted updates. Looks like I might be high bidder at $506, but I won't hold him to it. Mistakes are made. However I did send him a not saying that his $750 might just be a tad high as there are other
I'd really like a non-Mauser action for my "keeper" 7x57, but I'll take this one if it can shoot.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=312673365 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=312673365)
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Time for an update. I'm between coats 2 & 3. Haven't gone over coat 2 with steel wool yet to even up the finish. Just set the action in the stock for the pictures
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-21t1-aDbD9M/UJPP1EA2PPI/AAAAAAAAvDM/JpOTl5CjLj8/s954/IMG_7453.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0h4FvpLdBMI/UJPPqJp7aPI/AAAAAAAAvDE/OCWbdi6yL3o/s956/IMG_7448.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7MmuCzCHB1M/UJPPbspqcFI/AAAAAAAAvC0/J_aDJvq8RFs/s854/IMG_7445.JPG)
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What stain and top coats are you using for the finish. I have a Rossi lever gun I want to refinish.
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Jay, I'm just using Minwax Dark Walnut.
I'm not happy though with the wood. It is has some bad places in the grain that have absorbed the original stain (and subsequent paint) and it is very uneven on the right side giving it a "tiger spots" like look.
I'm no wood expert, so I'll just probably run steel wool over this last coat and call it quits. Then put on 2 coats of Tung Oil.
On thing my wife an I learned in our years of craft making was there's no accounting for some people's taste. While I don't find this stock attractive, and my efforts to make it so have failed, there's somebody out there who will be in love with it and think it very artistic and one-of-a-kind. I can only hope they also like it attached to an 1893 Mauser shooting 7x57. ;)
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Hold me back. Hold me back.
First I overlooked, Marlin and T/C of production grade rifle. But no 7x57's there either.
So I was just about to scratch the 7x57 off my list as an impulse that I really didn't need. Then I see this NIB CZ550 on GunsAmerica for $680.
Argh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h.
The dealer, Lipsey's, at one time listed a Ruger 77 in a Mannlicher (sp?) in 7 X 57. I bought one and it is a great rifle. It came in stainless steel with a decent walnut stock. It is a true beauty. Don't recall exactly the cost athough I have to say it wasn't, prohibitive. I used the rifle last year to harvest a doe and it performed very well.
I purchased the rifle because I had picked up an old 93 Spanish Mauser in 7X57 at a Cabela's. I was intrigued with it as it was the rifle used against us by the Spaniards/Cubans in the Spanish American War and which led the U.S. military to develop the 30-03 (later the 30-06) Springfield bolt-action rifle. I shot the 93 several times but decided that due to its age, repeated use was just tempting fate for something to go wrong. The Ruger came to the rescue.
It is a great caliber with sufficient energy to take most of the big game hunted here in North America as well as plains game in Africa. My advice is to keep looking on the the various gun sites like Guns America and Guns International, also Lipsey's (as I think it was a special run they had Ruger make for them). Good luck.
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There's always a couple of Ruger 77s on sale at any given time. The lowest price I've seen was about $550.
BUT Oh gosh golly, Wally, there are so many unique 7x57s out there. Most way out of my price range.
The latest to catch my eye is the Mauser 66/600. An early example of interchangeable barrels. I can't tell but doesn't appear to be a "Mauser" action. At least I don't see the extractor claw. It's at gun shop just up the road so I may go see it on Friday.
(http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/318318000/318318081/pix757036613.jpg)
Mauser 660 cousin of the 66 in caliber.7x57mm, in exceptional condition and appears unfired. Not many rifles imported in this caliber. The Mauser 660 was imported by a firm known as Mauser-Bauer in Fraiser, MI in the early to mid 1970's. The OEM pad was replaced with a Deluxe Pachmayr pad. The rifles feature 24" barrels, telescoping bolt and receiver. These actions are extremely strong and can handle modern hand loads that exceed the the original SAMI standards for the 7x57. Overall the Mauser 66/660 is 4" shorter than other rifles with similar barrel lengths. You can also change barrels within the same case head dimensions. You could mount barrels in cal. 30.06, .243, 25.06,.270,.308. The Mauser 66/660's are extremely accurate rifles. Extra barrels are still found on firearm auction sites. Included in the auction with the rifle is the the German scope bridge and rings with a Bausch & Lomb 2.5-10 w/AO Scope.
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Now thats a pretty gun. Now I must look into buying one for myself. ;D