The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: ericire12 on February 16, 2009, 11:16:05 AM
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Anti-gun group, Violence Policy Center, who is pushing for a .50 caliber ban, can only document a few cases of actual criminal use of .50 caliber rifles in the U.S., but pads those statistics by including a couple dozen cases of rifles and/or ammo being recovered from crime scenes in which they were not fired. As for actual killings in the U.S. committed with .50 cal rifles? Zero. In the cespool that is Mexico, there has been 1 actual killing committed in the more than 25 years Ronnie Barrett has been marketing his .50 caliber rifles to civilians
Read their compilation of stats here:
http://www.vpc.org/snipercrime.htm
"The simple fact is that .50-calibers have not been used in crimes,"
NRA spokesman Andrew Arulandam, Associated Press, August 18, 2004
More from their website:
http://www.vpc.org/50caliber.htm
WHY REGULATE 50 CALIBER SNIPER RIFLES?
Fifty caliber anti-armor sniper rifles are an ideal tool for terrorism.
They are a real and present danger to national security, yet are less regulated than handguns.
Fifty caliber sniper rifles are specifically designed to engage and destroy materiel
targets on the battlefield at long range. These anti-armor rifles combine range and
striking power that is far beyond that of any hunting rifle, and beyond that of the
rifles our infantry carry. Armored personnel carriers, aircraft, rail tank cars, bulk fuel
storage, and concrete bunkers are vulnerable to 50 caliber rifle fire at distances of
1,000 to 2,000 yards. Our soft civilian infrastructure—airports and the jetliners in
them, rail cars carrying hazardous materials, and toxic chemical bulk storage
plants—is even more open to attack by these rifles than its military counterpart.
Any 18 year old who can pass a Brady background check can buy a 50 caliber rifle
under federal law. But one must be at least 21 years old to buy a handgun at a gun
Terrorists and other dangerous groups have bought scores of these rifles—but no
one knows who owns them or where they are in America today.
America is in a war with terrorism. We should not be arming the terrorists with
such destructive weapons of war. It is time to regulate 50 caliber sniper rifles by
bringing them under the National Firearms Act, so that local and federal law
enforcement agencies will, at the very least, know who has them.
My suggestion.... Barret come out with a .499 caliber round ;D
(http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/50cal.gif)
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My suggestion.... Barret come out with a .499 caliber round ;D
.416 Barrett in the Model 99 would work in my book. I think it has better ballistics than the .50 also.
http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifle_99.aspx
***EDIT***
The .416 Barrett has around 500 ft/lbs and 400 fps advantage over the .50 at 1000 yds.
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"Fifty caliber anti-armor sniper rifles are an ideal tool for terrorism."
And I'm sure they would buy them across the counter of the local gun shop if they wanted them for that purpose. This is how stupidly these anti gun people think. Regardless of how much information you give them, they refuse to accept the hard core fact that criminals, be they domestic or foreign, don't buy guns legally. The definition of stupidity is someone who makes the same mistake over and over. I cannot think of a better group of individuals who represent this thought train than the liberal, anti gun crowd. Bill T.
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.416 Barrett in the Model 99 would work in my book. I think it has better ballistics than the .50 also.
http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifle_99.aspx
(http://www.barrettrifles.com/images/titles/title_barrett99.gif)
Yes, but why would you want to pay the extra $200 ;D
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***EDIT***
The .416 Barrett has around 500 ft/lbs and 400 fps advantage over the .50 at 1000 yds.
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
;D
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Can you form .416 Barrett brass by simply running it through a .50 BMG full length sizing die, then trimming? Bill T.
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BTW..... You can unleash your typing finger here:
http://www.vpc.org/contact.htm
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Can you form .416 Barrett brass by simply running it through a .50 BMG full length sizing die, then trimming? Bill T.
A little more to it than that, but you can make .416 from .50 BMG brass.
Here is a link to the discussion of said topic at the Barrett website forum.
http://www.barrettrifles.com/DiscussionForum_YAF/Default.aspx?g=posts&m=15468
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(http://www.barrettrifles.com/images/titles/title_barrett99.gif)
Yes, but why would you want to pay the extra $200 ;D
Hell Yea If I can get one here in Aust ;D
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A 50 bmg could be a very good terrorist weapon... the only prob is it would be very hard to use it as one.
The shooting planes out of the air, is a joke, you might be able to hit one on take off or landing, but thats not going to bring the plane down unless you can take out more then one engine( not going to happen). The other way it could be used as a weapon of terror is to attack either a chemical plant, refinery or storage tanks... once again it would be extremely hard to do that. In all of those structures the only really weak parts are the pipes and valves. its very hard to hit a 6" pipe at 1000 yds, let alone hit it at the right angle. the valves are only a little bigger. All of this hinges on know which ones to shoot... There are alot easier ways to do the same damnage if not more. In both cases you could do alot more damage with a light aircraft then you could with a rifle.
Every other target that a terrorist could shoot with a rifle, could just as easily be done with something much smaller, a 308 would be more then enough. Hell, most of the targets a 223 would be enough.
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A 50 bmg could be a very good terrorist weapon... the only prob is it would be very hard to use it as one.
Hard to use? Why local paper say all you have to do is walk up to the fence at the airport, whip that 20#, 5' long sucker out of your waistband and blast away at 600rds/min. ;)
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Hard to use? Why local paper say all you have to do is walk up to the fence at the airport, whip that 20#, 5' long sucker out of your waistband and blast away at 600rds/min. ;)
That must be one hell of a thumb strain from reloading the mags...
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My "contribution" to their web site.......................................
Dear Sir,
After reading your "opinion" of the dangers of .50 caliber BMG rifles, I felt I needed to challenge some information that you reported. Your statment that .50 caliber BMG rifles are sniper and/or assasin rifles is completely unsubstanuated. While they could be used for that, so can many others. The US Army uses several different calibers for snipers, do we classify them all as sniper, and ban them. While we're on the subject, what about the .32 caliber that the assasin used to shoot Ferdinand and supposedly started WW I? This is considered little more than a plinking round by most experts today, but was very populr to many armies through the years.
Your ancedotes that you quote, list only a couple actual crimes commited with the .50 caliber BMG rifle. In one case (Top prosecutors in Ariz., Mexico target smuggling," Arizona Republic, March 14, 2008), there was no mention if this rifle was purchased legally. As we know, very few criminals obey the laws, we would be better off enforcing the laws that are presently on the books, and more closely applying the punishment requirements that we have. The other (Arrest made in Polk County wildfire: deputies determined high-powered rifle caused fire," Statesman Journal, September 11, 2007), was the result of poor judgement on his part. But how many other wild fires are started every year, by poor judgement, but didn't involve a firearm? Do we ban matches, lighters, camp fires, cigarettes, etc.? Prosecute the person for poor judgement of carelessly starting the fire, don't blame the "camp fire". Also in this example the Sheriff stated "The problem with a weapon like this is that you can't safely shoot it anywhere.". This statement is completely without merit. I know of many places that are safe to shoot this rifle, and there are probably hundreds/thousands more. A blanket statment such as this one, with absolutely no proof or evidence, should not be dignified with quoting, unless you have a predisposed intent to spread misinformation to further a personal agenda.
Most of the other examples are nothing more than a suspected or potential criminal was in possesion of the .50 caliber BMG rifle. There are numerous laws presently in place to deal with every instance that you mention. Not once did you document any instance of a legally acquired rifle being used in a crime. Passing new laws that punish law abiding citizens are not the answer. Any laws that are passed, will be ignored by the criminals and only accomplish to tread on the Constitutional Right "....To Keep And Bear Arms...."
Sincerely
Brian Alcaraz
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Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock used a scope mounted M2 BMG to snipe an NVA at 2500 yards during the Viet Nam war.
Probably the longest confirmed kill during the war.
Semper Fi, Gunny!
There was only ONE Carlos Hathcock......
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Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock used a scope mounted M2 BMG to snipe an NVA at 2500 yards during the Viet Nam war.
Probably the longest confirmed kill during the war.
Semper Fi, Gunny!
There was only ONE Carlos Hathcock......
Yes, and by the accounts that I have read, it was a HEAD SHOT at that distance using a Unertl 9x scope (?). I read that he had a machinist on base make him special scope mounts to fit the M2 and had Old Ma Deuce mounted to a tri-pod with T&E controls.
One hell of a shot in my book.
8)
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During WWII there were a bunch of M-2's that had a dovetailed block riveted to the right hand side of the reciever for scope mounting. My Dad had one for a time in Korea in '52 and I had one in my arms room when I was a Unit Armorer in the Guard in '90.
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During WWII there were a bunch of M-2's that had a dovetailed block riveted to the right hand side of the reciever for scope mounting. My Dad had one for a time in Korea in '52 and I had one in my arms room when I was a Unit Armorer in the Guard in '90.
I had heard of those also, but thought I read somewhere that Gunny Hathcock had one built that was adjustable.
I think it was stated in an article by E.J. Land.
Hell, I've been wrong before, though............ ;D ;D ....my memory slips from time to time. ;)
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He may have had something more elaborate made up or maybe they didn't happen to have one of the modified ones. My understanding was that there were only 1,000 officially modified. Land is most likely reliable as he was there.
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How many of these drugged up hippies have even seen or fired a .50? Do they have any idea how effective of a weapons platform or bullet it is? Or is all their research out of Tom Clancy books, video games, and Terminator movies?
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Yes, and by the accounts that I have read, it was a HEAD SHOT at that distance using a Unertl 9x scope (?). I read that he had a machinist on base make him special scope mounts to fit the M2 and had Old Ma Deuce mounted to a tri-pod with T&E controls.
One hell of a shot in my book.
8)
I believe he deliberatly shot the handle bar of the bicycle because he saw it was a kid. When the kid picked up an AK and returned fire, Hathcock killed him.. Two shots at 1.42 MILES!!!!!!!
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I believe he deliberatly shot the handle bar of the bicycle because he saw it was a kid. When the kid picked up an AK and returned fire, Hathcock killed him.. Two shots at 1.42 MILES!!!!!!!
Two different shootings.
The long range shot was on a NVA officer as he was drinking from the river. The kid on the bicycle was closer. He fired warning shot into the front wheel hub, hoping the kid would drop the rifles he was carrying and run. When he didn't, Hathcock nailed him.
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I worked on some M2s that had a scope mount machined into the rear sight assembly. If the sight broke we had to replace it with a regular one. About 99% of the M2s I ever saw were made at AC Spark Plug in Flint, MI a mile from my mom's house. The whole factory is gone now.
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Two different shootings.
The long range shot was on a NVA officer as he was drinking from the river. The kid on the bicycle was closer. He fired warning shot into the front wheel hub, hoping the kid would drop the rifles he was carrying and run. When he didn't, Hathcock nailed him.
thanks for the clarification PegLeg!....It's been a few years since I read about the incident...
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I worked on some M2s that had a scope mount machined into the rear sight assembly. If the sight broke we had to replace it with a regular one. About 99% of the M2s I ever saw were made at AC Spark Plug in Flint, MI a mile from my mom's house. The whole factory is gone now.
I understand FN is building them at their Maryland plant now.
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If I'm not mistaken, there was some guy in Nevada a couple years back who took out his wife's divorce lawyer with a shot through a window at 200 to 400 yards or some such. He used a "conventional" rifle, not a .50 BMG. Bill T.
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Yes, it was in Reno.
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If I'm not mistaken, there was some guy in Nevada a couple years back who took out his wife's divorce lawyer with a shot through a window at 200 to 400 yards or some such. He used a "conventional" rifle, not a .50 BMG. Bill T.
Yes, it was in Reno.
Reminds me of a Johnny Cash song I heard once...........
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Reminds me of a Johnny Cash song I heard once...........
"When I was just a baby,
My Mama told me, "Son,
Always be a good boy,
Don't ever play with guns,"
But I shot a man in Reno,
Just to watch him die,
When I hear that whistle blowin',
I hang my head and cry."
TAB lives near Folsom Prison, .....hm.....I wonder? ;D
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"When I was just a baby,
My Mama told me, "Son,
Always be a good boy,
Don't ever play with guns,"
But I shot a man in Reno,
Just to watch him die,
When I hear that whistle blowin',
I hang my head and cry."
TAB lives near Folsom Prison, .....hm.....I wonder? ;D
about 6 miles, to the front gate... ;D
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about 6 miles, to the front gate... ;D
You guys finally get some rain out there?
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Saw an old episode of 'Future Weapons" on the Military Channel the other day. It had a side-by-side shooting comparison between the Barrett in .50 BMG and .416 Barrett. At a range of 2500 yards, the .416 beat the .50 like a red-headed step-child.
I'd take either......but I'd really like to have the .416.
The way I see it, if you can afford the rifle in the first place, the expensive custom .416 ammo shouldn't be a problem. ;)
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A killing in Mexico with a .50 BMG? Probably committed by a member of the Mexican military.