The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: garand4life on February 17, 2011, 05:07:25 PM
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I am about a week away from having to make my pick between the Ruger and the SIG. I can get either one for about $1450 locally. I know that both guns are exceptionally well made but I am really having a hard time picking. Can anyone make arguments for me why one would be a better choice for a home defense, travel carbine? I've had ARs but when it comes to the SIG I am not sure what benefits the SIG offers over the piston AR and in particular I'm looking at the 1/7 twist of the SIG versus the 1/9 on the Ruger. How will that impact the use of 55 grain ammo? I believe the SIG offers a folding stock ability but can it be shot with the stock folded. I was taking a hard look at an ACR/SCAR to get into a "next gen" rifle. Thoughts and recommendations from my "experts"?
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Well, as a Sig owner since Feb. 08, I can attest to several things.
1. Eric Lund the Mod of this thread, (who hasn't been heard from for a while), :P has chosen the Sig556 for his primary competitive rifle. Not only did he, neglect, abuse, and torture test the crap out of it, he gave it an A+ rating as a weapon of choice.
The posts are here in the archives.
2. MB's video review and subsequent torture test, (also here in the vid archives) made the choice for me as well. The Sig556 received nothing but thumbs up.
3. Personally, there have been many mods to the stocks, foregrip, etc,....but my Sig, has done nothing but work, except for Wolf ammo. (One has to set the gas piston to position 2 to get that Russian ammo to cycle.)
4. It was voted top rifle of the year in 2008, on the Sig550 series that is right up there with the FN FAL for tried and true worthiness.
5. Customer service is great. (I'm sure Ruger is as well)
6. The "keep it simple stupid" was designed into the Sig with an AK rotating bolt assembly, that has 3 parts. Easy to clean, easy to strip, easy to maintain.
7. It is fwd. heavy, but well balanced, Eric put a Titan Comp on his and I put a Miculek comp on mine. (Big difference.) All good.
1/7,.....1/9 check that,...my Sig is 1/9, newer models may offer an option, but 1/9 covers the majority of ammo unless your talking heavier rounds, (past 62gr.) for tournament shooting.
8. The damn thing shoots very accurately. Plan on optics, or something as the factory BUIS frankly,...suck. Plenty of flip ups, or optics available.
9. It is more accurate with 5.56 ammo. Prefers the "real" 5.56 rds. Shoots Wally World .223 all day, but really shines with XM193.
10. It's a Sig
11. Ruger had to copy it.
12. I love my Sig. I believe Pathfinder has one also. (His even shoots Wolf Ammo)
13. ;D
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/rangejuly009.jpg)
14. My son loves it.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/DSCF1489.jpg)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/DSCF1490.jpg)
15. It just looks as bad ass as it is.
16. 2 stage Match Grade Trigger
I'm sure all the Ruger reports are similar. It will be a personal choice, but the Sig, is a fantastic option.
Both great rifles...
Just my $1.19....adjusted for inflation.... ::)
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I'm looking at the 1/7 twist of the SIG versus the 1/9 on the Ruger. How will that impact the use of 55 grain ammo?
It won't mean a thing. A 1 in 7" twist barrel is not necessary for all but the heaviest of .224 bullets. In fact I just picked up the new Hornady 8th Edition Reloading Manual. All of their .223 rifle data for both bolt action as well as AR-15 service rifle was shot in either a 1 in 12" twist Remington 700, or a Colt AR-15 with a 1 in 9" twist Citadel barrel. This included weights up to and including 80 Grains. Bill T.
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I can't speak to either rifle other than to say I'd take either. I can say that you won't notice a dimes worth of difference with .55 grain ammo. I don't think you'll notice a difference until you start getting into the mid to high sixty grain bullets and up, at which point the 1/7 is better. If you aren't going to be shooting heavy match/hunting rounds, I would take the 1/7 off your list of positives and evaluate the rifles on the remaining factors (which should incude barrel weght, lenghth, quality etc., but I woldn't sweat the twist rate too much).
FQ13
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Can the SIG use standard PMAGs or does it require special SIG mags?
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Can the SIG use standard PMAGs or does it require special SIG mags?
Have a large box full of Pmags (loaded in picture),....Uses Standard AR mags. When I built my new AR, I wanted to utilize a redundancy in a rifle platform.
Stoner, Orlite, GI milsurp, Colt, Cammenga, Pmags, as long as its an AR mag, it works.
Did I mention the SS cold forged barrel? ;D
OBTW, Exeter, NH,....benefits the Bogan's neck of the woods.... ;)
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Is it able to fire with the stock folded? Not that I intend to but you never know when you would need to.
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Is it able to fire with the stock folded? Not that I intend to but you never know when you would need to.
That's another thing. Are they both compatible with all other mil-spec AR bells and whistles? 2/3rds of the appeal of the AR is its modularity and "plug'n play" capability. It it won't take spare parts, barrels, uppers, lower's stocks etc., that's a big negative in my book. Its one thing I'd think about wirh the gas piston gun. How many parts (that you realisticaly can change for yourself) are different from a regular AR? Is the trade off worth it? (I have no opinion here as they sound cool, but I have no experience. Its just something I'd think about).
FQ13
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That's another thing. Are they both compatible with all other mil-spec AR bells and whistles? 2/3rds of the appeal of the AR is its modularity and "plug'n play" capability. It it won't take spare parts, barrels, uppers, lower's stocks etc., that's a big negative in my book. Its one thing I'd think about wirh the gas piston gun. How many parts (that you realisticaly can change for yourself) are different from a regular AR? Is the trade off worth it? (I have no opinion here as they sound cool, but I have no experience. Its just something I'd think about).
FQ13
No you are absolutely right. I think most of it for me is just wanting to do something different. How well does the little sig red dot work? I'm seeing a lot of the sig rifles are including them with the rifle.
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Is it able to fire with the stock folded? Not that I intend to but you never know when you would need to.
THAT, is one question I don't know. I have not been to the Sig Forum in a while. However.
SIG SAUER Customer Service Department:
Phone: (603) 772-2302 (press #3 for Customer Service)
Please be advised that our customer service phones have peak call times and you may wait several minutes for a representative if calling at these times. Our peak call times are, Monday 10am - 4pm, Tuesday through Friday 11am - 2pm.
Please note: If you are call about information or service on an existing firearm, please be sure to have the serial number ready for the customer service representative.
For your convenience, please refer to our FAQ page prior to submitting your inquiry.
Fax: (603) 772-4795
Hours:
Monday thru Friday 8:30am to 6:00pm EST.
You will get an answer. I suspect they DO fire with folded stock, and Sig also makes a California compliant model,..(stay away from those)... They take all the goodies away,.... :-\
Everything is AR compatible, except bolt assembly. There is no buffer spring, or buffer. The bolt doesn't work that way. However, a Sig spare parts kit is about $60-80. and will replace, mag release, safety, trigger, and bolt. It is built more like an AK than an AR.
Again, Keeping it simple.
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Everything is AR compatible, except bolt assembly. There is no buffer spring, or buffer. The bolt doesn't work that way. However, a Sig spare parts kit is about $60-80. and will replace, mag release, safety, trigger, and bolt. It is built more like an AK than an AR.
Again, Keeping it simple.
I think I'm in love ! I think that settles it.
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Sig!
du-uh . . .
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I was considering both and researched them for a while. I found the deciding factor at a gun show. The sig 556's saftey is placed to high for me to switch from fire to safe without twisting my wrist to the point where my finger would come off the trigger. My friend with me checked it out and had the same problem. That was just a pain in the ass so I bought the SIG. I have zero complaints with my SR-556.
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The Sig will fully fire and function with the stock folded. I don't have any issue with the safety position but that's a personal, subjective issue. The red dot is made by Itac and labeled for sigs (same as their lasers and tac-lights) and is in my opinion the best sub $200 red dot on the market. I've also got one of the Itac dots ($79.95 at Botach) on my crossbow and my turkey gun so it stands up to all types of recoil. The Ruger is a nice rifle but I really prefer the Sig. If I bought a Ruger it would be the "C" version. I recently picked up the Sig 556 pistol and I plan to turn in a form 1 to SBR it. All you have to do is add the stock which is much cheaper than buying the rifle then changing the barrel out.
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And how about this - SIG 556R:
When I saw the rifle close up, I fell in love with it. Now I can't decide whether to get the Ruger GSR or this one.....So many choices, so little money.... :-\
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I don't have either, but from what I read and hear I would go Sig.
Barrel twist - I have shot with and talked to a lot of long range shooters. 1 - 8" is a no brainer and noticeable to a shooter that cares enough to pay attention (that is the key part). 1 - 7" is only need by the fussiest and most demanding. Most will never reach the level where that step is the key feature. However, because of the type of shooting and how anal I can get over it I would take a 1 - 7" if it was available that easy!
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I don't have either, but from what I read and hear I would go Sig.
Barrel twist - I have shot with and talked to a lot of long range shooters. 1 - 8" is a no brainer and noticeable to a shooter that cares enough to pay attention (that is the key part). 1 - 7" is only need by the fussiest and most demanding. Most will never reach the level where that step is the key feature. However, because of the type of shooting and how anal I can get over it I would take a 1 - 7" if it was available that easy!
Here I agree with M58. I just don't think it should be the deciding factor if 55 grain is your ammo of choice. Between the two, the Sig seems the better deal. TW's revelation of the $60 non-spec parts replacement kit makes it almost a no brainer. The only other thing that hasn't been discussed is the Ruger's adjustable gas system. They have three options that will help you shoot even under dirty conditions. Is this feature really useful and does anyone have experience with it?
FQ13
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I was considering both and researched them for a while. I found the deciding factor at a gun show. The sig 556's saftey is placed to high for me to switch from fire to safe without twisting my wrist to the point where my finger would come off the trigger. My friend with me checked it out and had the same problem. That was just a pain in the ass so I bought the SIG. I have zero complaints with my SR-556.
The ambi safety is located well within the standard grip without having to remove my finger from the trigger.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/SigSafety006.jpg)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/SigSafety002.jpg)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/SigSafety007.jpg)
safety ON and safety OFF
I have large hands so this might be an issue for you, however, as preciously posted, it is a personal choice and preference issue.
Also maybe you made a typo, as you "bought the Sig" and have zero complaints with your SR-556.
Just curious.
I still maintain both are fine rifles, what's better? A ZO6 Corvette? Or Dodge Viper? Both are performance machines designed for a purpose. It's a personal choice, that I have great performance from my Sig.
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My only knock against the SIG is the sights.
They look like they were made by a kid in his first day of metalshop. Are the new rifles sights any better?
I know they are backup sights but at that price point, you shouldn't have to buy an optic with so many really good BUIS on the market for ARs.
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My only knock against the SIG is the sights.
They look like they were made by a kid in his first day of metalshop. Are the new rifles sights any better?
I know they are backup sights but at that price point, you shouldn't have to buy an optic with so many really good BUIS on the market for ARs.
As a Sig owner, I totally agree, the rear sight is flip up, (if you have long fingernails), as it's recessed into the top rail. It requires a phillips head screwdriver to "adjust". The front sight is equivalent to a flat head Craftsman screwdriver, chopped off and put on a fold down swivel.
Yes, the factory sights suck. However, it does nothing but shine with any optic, and bravocompany sells the offset 1:00 BUIS with "glow" if wanted, that is 10 times better for $30.
It's a great rifle, the priority was in the rotating AK bolt, that is uber simple and reliable, the 2 stage trigger, and adjustable gas operating system.
They kinda gave the iron sights a back seat, but it does not take away from the performance.
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217491833
This shop by me has "The Other" Sig 556, the 516. I'm not sure of the price. It seems a bit high for a piston AR-15. Not trying to Hi-Jack, but has anyone handled and or shot one of these rifles? Bill T.
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217491833
This shop by me has "The Other" Sig 556, the 516. I'm not sure of the price. It seems a bit high for a piston AR-15. Not trying to Hi-Jack, but has anyone handled and or shot one of these rifles? Bill T.
They added more "traditional AR hardware, receiver, bolt, fwd. assist. dust cover, etc,.."
Fondled but did not shoot the 516, seemed they lightened up the fore end a bit than the 556.(which comes in around 9lbs.) For the price billt, you could "build yourself a damn top shelf AR cheaper, and pick and choose the components along the way.
8) (Worked for me)....
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If you want a "regular" AR in a piston configuration you'd be much better off buying a PWS. They're cheaper than the 516 and proven. If you have more disposable income then buy a POF. You can't get any better but a bit rich for me. You can get the complete PWS for less than most POF uppers.