The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Ron J on August 02, 2008, 06:38:47 PM
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I am thinking about building “the perfect” gun range. Found an area of the country that has a strong gun (and archery) culture with a sincere void in legitimate gun ranges (two private ranges that have a two year wait to join).
Considering the hundreds of hours of range time you all have, I would like to hear your ideas to what would make the “perfect range”.
Ideas for now …
Gun range would be dual indoor and outdoor.
Indoor/mechanical adjustable to 25m and would have state of the art ventilation. It may be possible to put in a sliding roof. Objective would be to have room for three separate stations of five lanes each. Separating the stations would allow for separate small bore and large bore shooting.
Outdoor 5m, 10m, 20m, 50m and 100m. Range would have a “pit system” to allow target changing without stopping firing on the shooting line.
Both indoor and outdoor stations will have soft barrier walls that will deflect empty brass downward.
Possible room outdoors for shooting clay birds.
Archery range w/stationary and moving targets.
Two to three classrooms.
Gun store.
Also thinking about …
Having a casual dining restaurant on site and a pro-shop for fishing (have investors that want to open a restaurant).
Open canvas to paint on …let’s see what you would create.
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Where is this range going to be. It sounds awesome I'm jealous already.
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Sounds like a dream range.
My best friend opened a local rifle and pistol range and club about two years ago as a side project (he is a state LEO). It is small but very nice. It has up to 50 yard pistol and 300 yard rifle.
He said one thing to absolutely do first is hire a good pro-gun lawyer to handle zoning and legal issues.
Have fun, and good luck on the project.
8)
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Sounds like a dream range.
My best friend opened a local rifle and pistol range and club about two years ago as a side project (he is a state LEO). It is small but very nice. It has up to 50 yard pistol and 300 yard rifle.
He said one thing to absolutely do first is hire a good pro-gun lawyer to handle zoning and legal issues.
Have fun, and good luck on the project.
8)
YES! That is the best advice. And I do have a very good lawyer that is shooter and hunter. Also will have a state representative involved with the project.
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Sounds like a plan.
We need more ranges to introduce more people to our world. I was a member of a local club 20 years ago, but all they did was Bullseye matches. I liked the precision shooting, but wanted more. Problem was, there were no ranges close by. Now all I have to do is drive 5 miles to shoot in a safe, shooter-friendly environment.
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How about a big "shooting gallery" range for .22s like the one featured on Shooting Gallery a season or 2 ago? That would be fantastic fun for all. Great to get the young ones excited about shooting.
The episode was in season 5: Zen of the 22.
Great idea!
One of the reasons why I want to have at least three different stations is to segregate noise levels. Maybe something like one area for 22’s, one for non-magnum handguns, one for the hand cannons.
The gallery with a combination of resettable “poppers” would be a great idea.
What I want to design is the ultimate range. The “Disneyworld” of shooting facilities. Wait …. I need to have a “Small World” range!!
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YES! That is the best advice. And I do have a very good lawyer that is shooter and hunter. Also will have a state representative involved with the project.
Oklahoma...or Montana?
Also...the Zen of the 22....One of MB's three best shows in my book...and yes, the range was superb.
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Oklahoma...or Montana?
Also...the Zen of the 22....One of MB's three best shows in my book...and yes, the range was superb.
Sorry! Can't discuss location at this point. Will say that OK is not in the running (something to do with flying monkeys and tornados!). Found two states that have favorable markets, sites and regulations to open a premier range facility.
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RonJ, I have this to say, a shooting range is a better venue than a gun shop... In a decent location it always has income coming in. The gun store just adds potential profit. The shooting gallery theme is a good one, why wait for the circus to come to town, when someone already has the fun stuff to shoot at, and the guns to shoot them with. But the gun game is complicated, competitors will ALWAYS GO FOR THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR, they have to, Only the rich can afford the best, day in day out.. The common person might bring his family to your range but not enough, to make a living,, I wish you the best , but I've been at this a long, long time.
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Space and funds permitting, don't forget the Skeet, Trap and 5 Stand fields. They seem to be good revenue earners at the clubs in the Northeast. I rarely miss a week without shooting at least 2 rounds of skeet. A 200 or 300 yd rifle range would also be a plus from my perspective.
Good luck getting this project off the ground. Sounds great.
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Sorry! Can't discuss location at this point. Will say that OK is not in the running (something to do with flying monkeys and tornados!). Found two states that have favorable markets, sites and regulations to open a premier range facility.
Since you live (still?) in OKC, you might want to drive over to Tulsa and take a peek at USSA. You might grab some ideas you can take with you. Their website has a nice aerial view to look at the layout.
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Since you live (still?) in OKC, you might want to drive over to Tulsa and take a peek at USSA. You might grab some ideas you can take with you. Their website has a nice aerial view to look at the layout.
Thanks Rastus! I will check out their web site! I am out on the road right now but will be back in OK at the end of August. Have heard a lot of great things about USSA and would like to see their facility. I will try to make the trek from Edmond to Tulsa.
Having lived in CA, MT, TX, MI, WI, AZ (twice), SD, IL and OK; I have seen some good ranges and some great shooting facilities. My intent is to design the perfect range. Something that when you walk in, you say "wow" and beg your wife to let you stay for another hour.
I have a list of "critical success drivers" that will need to be put in play. Many consider the "no-brainer" variety such as customer base, safe, friendly and affordable. Facility will be marketed as the destintion for the shooter and archer. Need to guard against "trying to be everything to everybody" but the idea of having other income generating businesses on site (restaurant w/live music, cigar bar) would help the ROI equation.
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I don't intend to open a range but have always been interested in the technology. Check out the NRA source book first.
http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/sourcebook.asp
They also have a range conference coming up next month in Las Vega NV that you should absolutely attend if this is a real interest.
http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/development.asp
You will be exposed to all the remediation and legal stuff that has become more important in some respects than the shooting end.
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If space permits I would seriously consider 200 yard range. Where I live hard to find anything over a 100 yards.
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My intent is to design the perfect range. Something that when you walk in, you say "wow" and beg your wife to let you stay for another hour.
Or better yet.. make it so nice that the wife learns to like shooting and then begs to go with you and SHE wants to stay the extra hour. ;)
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Or better yet.. make it so nice that the wife learns to like shooting and then begs to go with you and SHE wants to stay the extra hour. ;)
Great point.
Marshall is a lucky man.
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.22 shooting gallery would be a great idea.
How about a high power rife range 100, 200, 300 yards or meters....maybe 500...1000 in a military style range.
Rich people like trap/skeet and would love a ranges with lights for extended shooting.
How about an indoor shoot house for training classes?
Good luck with your project, would love to visit once it's done!
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.22 shooting gallery would be a great idea.
How about a high power rife range 100, 200, 300 yards or meters....maybe 500...1000 in a military style range.
Rich people like trap/skeet and would love a ranges with lights for extended shooting.
How about an indoor shoot house for training classes?
Good luck with your project, would love to visit once it's done!
Great ideas ... depending on the location, I want to have the space for long range (1000m) shooting but may need to scale back given cost/availability of land. As well, given the amount of bird hunters, shotgun sports (with lights) is also a great idea. I like the idea of a "shoot house" that can be constructed to represent an actual house too. Would need to find some qualified instructors (like Bruce Gray) to come in and offer classes several times per year.
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I'd recommend a class room facility in the complex, it could be used for NRA Basic Safety Courses and CCW classes and the qualifications on your range. Classes bring folks to the facility, once they see what they want, they will buy accordingly...
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RonJ check out this organization...I saw it in the weekly NSSF email.
http://www.rangeinfo.org/
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What kind of customer base will you have to support the range? That will determine how much you can invest without going bankrupt.
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What kind of customer base will you have to support the range? That will determine how much you can invest without going bankrupt.
Right now, the target market is broken down to three strong segments ... rifle/pistol, shotgun and archery. The rifle/pistol segment needs can be met with a quality range. The shotgun would have to have more diversity to facilitate various interests. Archery (which I know nothing about) could have fixed and motion targets.
In one market there are two private ranges that have two year waiting periods. The public land that folks have been shooting on is slowly being closed down. There is land to be had and with the right marketing plan there is a strong business proposition.
RonJ check out this organization...I saw it in the weekly NSSF email.
http://www.rangeinfo.org/
1776! Another great link! Thanks!!
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RonJ, my youngest daughter and I got interested in archery a couple of years ago. I simply believe it to be one of the most beautiful sports to watch. I was happy to attend back in 2003 the FITA (the international governing body of Olympic style archery) WORLD Championships which were held in a public park in the Bronx in NY City. Most folks not familar with NYC expect all concrete in the City but the parks can be quite large. This one has a large open area where a half dozen soccer games/cricket matches/football/baseball are all played simultaneously. So perhaps a good one half to three quarters of mile square of just open space with grass (besides the heavily wooded section used in regional cross country running events). They cordoned off about 200 yards by 200 yards and that was it. Had hundreds of international shooters competing. The extreme distance shot at, is 90 meters.
Here was the flyer for the event
http://www.nyc.gov/html/sports/html/archery.html
Found some photos for you to see how simple a setup is required for even a world class event. You might want to check out photo 14 !!!!
http://public.fotki.com/kevinkevbo/sporting_events/42nd_world_archery/
This is also a publication on archery range design from the Archery Manufacturers Organization. It covers the various style of archery and their requirements.
http://www.archerysearch.com/publications/amorangelayout.pdf
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There are a pleathora of good ideas here. Just $.02 from FL. There a few good ranges near me. The one I enjoy the most is this one (http://www.bsfshootingsports.com/ (http://www.bsfshootingsports.com/)). It is all outdoors and does not have a lot of the bells and whistles, but I have had the most fun here. It has a pistol area with all kinds of steel targets and you can put your own paper if you feel the need. It also has a 50, 300, and 600 yard along with a skeet course. The one draw back is the outdoors in the FL summer: lots of heat and rain showers. Another range I frequent is an all pistol/indoor range. Again in the actual range area it is quite warm in the summer because of ventilation needed trumps the use of AC and the tin roof sure doesn't help. It is family friendly, however. It has a large TV dedicated to video games when it isn't being used for training videos. There is usually a gunsmith on hand along with a modest selection of pistols and long guns.
I guess to sum up: high dollar doesn't always tranlate to high fun.
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Outstanding information!!!!!!!!!
When I get this up and running ... you guys will shoot for free!!!!!!!
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http://www.memphis-ssa.com/modules.php?name=General_Info
None of it is indoor, but there are 185 acres worth of various ranges. I've included this link so that you can quickly give it a once-over and see if there's anything of value to you and your own goals. Hopefully this is good info, but either way, best of luck. And please keep us updated on your progress!
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For safety we found the NRA very helpful with building our ranges (6) All of which are outdoors, High berms (8ft.) as for the shooting stations, The rafters were spaced from the back going towards the front every 10 inches that way it would stop a .30-06 before the end. and yes upon trial in front of city council it did stop one before the half way mark. Good luck and look forward to visitng your range soon!
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RonJ I have spoken to several range technology vendors at the NRA Annual Meetings. They have some innovative stuff. Take a look at the following couple of links. Each has been used in some cool reference site.
Great way to replace earthern berms. (you may have to copy this whole URL and paste it in your browser)
http://www.erdc.usace.army.mil/pls/erdcpub/!www_fact_sheet.PRODUCT_PAGE?ps_product_numb=157487&tmp_Main_Topic=&page=All
Used in a lot of indoor ranges and can handle up to 50 BMG and full auto.
http://www.savagerangesystems.com/
Neat way to remediate lead.
http://www.fesi.net/main.htm
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I would make sure it can host IPSC, SASS, or IDPA matches. That is a great way to develop a core group of "regulars". I've done matches at indoor ranges. The key is to be able to open up the indoor lanes so it can replicate an outdoor open bay as much as possible. We would take breaks while they changed the stages if there were not enough bays (I think about 6 bays is the minimum needed to not have to do this).
A covered picnic area with some tables and maybe a BBQ pit would help keep those folks around after a match.
Being able to host visiting instructors would also bring in lots of new people and keep your regulars happy.
Plumbing and CLEAN bathrooms are key for the women folk. Sounds like you will have electricity and running water, so making sure there are good facilities close to the shooting will go a long way towards getting women out there. Men survive with a leafy bush :P
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Just my meager $0.02 worth, but...I would like individual pistol bays, about 25 yards deep, with good sized side berms. That way if you were to host a monthly IDPA match...each bay would have a full 180 degree range of engagement and could have some interesting scenarios.
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Great ideas! Thanks!
Welcome to the forum Jason10mm!