The Down Range Forum
Member Section => NFA Items => Topic started by: Ksail101 on November 25, 2009, 11:05:13 PM
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So I have a buddy that did work with Delta over in the sandbox. He is someone who I have become good friends with and now have been able to get together with and practice many things that I haven't be able to do just by myself since I have gotten out. He is an ex- Ranger\SF, multiple tour, "badass."
Anyway we got into the topic of suppressors cause he brought his RRA AR out shooting last time and he is thinking about spending the money on a Surefire that is very similar if not the same as the one he used with Delta on one of his tours. He swears up and down that a suppressor makes the gun more accurate.
I have no experience with a silencer on a rifle. I have only used one and that was a Beretta M9 and to me it made the shoot high right, but consistently High right from where it shot before the suppressor was on. Thus in my mind I felt it made it less accurate but I guess you can compensate to make it shoot where you point.
I got on Surefire's website and downloaded their catalog and this is directly from the 4th page:
Increased Accuracy
Groups typically improve with a SureFire suppressor
attached. This is attributable to SureFire's proprietary
suppressor design, which dampens vibration, reduces
recoil, and affects other ballistic dynamics. Will a SureFire
suppressor make you a better shot? That’s what practice
is for. But it’ll put the rounds where you point them.
So what is the truth does it help with Accuracy or does it impede it?? And do they work differently from a rifle to a handgun??
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I don't know about other calibers but in 22 the sub sonic round is what gives the increased accuracy because aproaching the speed of sound sets up a pressure wave that buffets the bullet.
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I speak in ignorance of suppressors, but a compensator can help accuracy. I see no reason a well designed sppressor couldn't do the same thing. I would add this though. Suppressors are a fun toy. BUT they are illegal to hunt with in most states and God help you if you shoot someone with a "silenced" gun.Plus you have to buy the tax stamp and submit to all sorts of potential ATF intrusions in terms of inspection etc., as well as ptting yourself on the radar screen of your local SO. Is it really worth it for something that will really only be useful in a TEOTAWKI scenario? Your call to make, but personally I'll pass.
FQ13
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There are many ways a "can" could both help and hurt.
accuracy is such a complex issue that it would litterly depend on the gun and the ammo used.
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I've toyed with the idea of getting one of these things, but as FQ 13 points out, for me it's just not worth the cost, and jumping through all of the legal hoops. The cost of these things is atrocious for what they are, ($1,000.00+), and you pretty much have the same paperwork involved as a full auto, complete with $200.00 tax stamp, and a long waiting period. Bottom line, by the time you're all through it will wind up costing as much or more than the gun you screw it on. From what I understand these things don't last forever and have a limited life, and require frequent, painstaking cleaning. I understand the attraction, but for me it's a high maintenance, low return proposition. I'll stick with my foam ear plugs. Bill T.
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Some suppressors have a lifetime guarantee, it just depends on how they are constructed. The ones with packing do wear out and the packing will eventually need replaced. The ones with just baffles don't wear out and cleaning is infrequent and easy, just hose out the inside with solvent and let drain.
Yeah, you have to have a tax stamp for one, just like a SBR or full auto. I don't know about "submitting to all sorts of potential ATF intrusions or inspection". The ATF can ask at anytime for you to produce the suppressor to make sure it is in your possession. That does not mean they can come knock on your door and come in. If they do, simple tell them to make an appointment and you will be glad to show them, doesn't mean you have to do it right then and there. You are not giving up any rights by having a class 3 weapon.
As for shooting someone with a suppressor. Justified is justified. ::)
FQ, who's wearing the tinfoil now? ;)
And yes, I have heard that they do improve accuracy.
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The only thing I know about the rules on them is the $200 tax. I do know that the local range has 2 Walther p22's in the case.
The standard one is around $300, the one with the can is $750.
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FWIW:
I have a Gemtech Viper on my MAC 10 (.45 ACP) and it definitely helps with control of the SMG and it does improve accuracy. I keep it on the MAC for home defense and I will occasionally take it to the range. They are definitely very useful to have in my opinion.
As to whether you should get one, completely your call.
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I have 2 suppressors, both are Gemtech. I have not noticed any siginficant loss in accuracy. Having said that there is a point of impact shift when the suppressor is attached verses a naked muzzle.
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Ksail,
PM RASTUS, he is the 'can man'.
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Tighter groups with the cans.
Generally. Not an absolute.
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Tighter groups with the cans.
Generally. Not an absolute.
+1 Completely agree.
Generally, there is also a point of impact shift with the suppressor attached, but it's consistent. Most modern suppressors are pretty hassle free when it comes to cleaning. I usually clean mine every 2-3k rounds and that usually involves submerging it overnight in simple green or 409. Wipe it out and take an airhose to it and your done.
If you decide to acquire one, consider the quick detach models. They usually have some type of adapter flash suppressor with threads designed for a suppresser. The models that screw onto the 1/2x28 barrel threading should be avoided. Those size thread were never designed for a suppressor. The are too fine and will clog with carbon too easily, making removal difficult and it's very easy to damage the threads.
I've shot just about all of the major suppressor manufacturers and I prefer Advanced Armament products, but Surefire and Knights also make very good products.
USSA-1
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Ditto...my experience has been group size shrinks because of less gas disturbance as the bullet exits the barrel. Also a surprising reduction in recoil. Have used SureFires, AACs, Knights, Johns and Gemtechs. My inclination would be to go with AAC or Gemtech, although in truth they all work as advertised...
Michael B
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No personal experience, but most of the rimfire stuff I've seen on suppressors has pointed to Gemtech's being their favorites because the baffles last longer, and they were easy to clean. I'd seen a comparison where they put hundreds of rounds through each brand without cleaning them at all... Try to find it again.
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Lots of info. here, you just need to sign up as a member.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/archive_reviews.htm