The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on December 01, 2009, 10:12:12 AM
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http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-cops1-2009dec01,0,4102431.story
Crazy about guns
Tragic shootings like those in Washington show the deadly side of our love affair with firepower.
News that an armed fugitive who shot and killed four police officers near Seattle on Sunday was still at large prompted fear, anger, sorrow and something else: The desire to grab a gun. "I can tell you that most people have probably got their weapons loaded right now," a retired computer worker from Parkland, Wash., told The Times. "I think people should carry their guns and be ready," a local taxi driver told National Public Radio.
It's a typical American response to an all-too-typical American incident of gun violence. It is also a striking example of the disconnect between our desire to feel safe and our insistence on loose gun laws that make us less so. The murdered officers were armed, well trained in the use of their weapons and wearing bulletproof vests. It didn't save them.
Americans seem hard-wired to love guns; our frontier history and our bloody split from the British crown have made gun ownership both a cultural imperative and a constitutionally enshrined right. That's not going to change any time soon, and polls show that's OK with increasing numbers of Americans. But we pay a steep price for our fascination with firepower.
Had Sunday's victims been, say, Mounties, it wouldn't necessarily have sent Canadians scrambling for the gun racks. But then, such killings are far less common in Canada. According to the FBI, the U.S. homicide rate in 2008 was 5.4 for every 100,000 people; 67% of those killings were committed with guns. In Canada, the homicide rate was 1.8 per 100,000, with 33% of the killings committed with guns. Notice a pattern? Canada has stricter guns laws than the United States, requiring owners to pass a safety course and get a license before buying a gun, rather like drivers must do here. The need for a driver's license seems obvious to most Americans -- after all, a car with an untrained driver behind the wheel can be deadly.
Time will tell how the suspected shooter in Parkland got his weapon. If he stole it or acquired it from an accomplice, there are few gun laws that could have prevented the tragedy short of a blanket ban on handguns, and the Supreme Court last year ruled that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban was unconstitutional. Yet regardless of the circumstances in Parkland, it is simple for criminals and the mentally unstable to acquire guns in this country. In most states (though not, thankfully, California) they need only go to a gun show and buy from a reseller, because dealers in second-hand firearms usually aren't required to perform a federal background check.
That "gun-show loophole" should have been closed years ago because it would protect the public while doing nothing to restrict law-abiding citizens' right to bear arms, but the gun lobby has successfully resisted every attempt at reform. Americans could stand to be less gun-crazy and more willing to stop crazy people from getting guns.
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More socialist crap.
These bobble headed a$$holes always have to blame the tool, never the POS user that THEIR touchy feely idiocy allowed back on the street. This particular dirtbag probably should have been EXECUTED at 18, not released.
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L.A. Times....... ::) Shocker >:(
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As a side note, according to the AP report on the shooter's death this morning he was carrying a gun he took for a dead officer. Wonder if the officer ran a back ground check before transfering the firearm or if the officer had proper control of the weapon as he lay on the ground to prevent unauthorized use.
The next will be that these four "trained professionals" were not protected by the weapons they carried, so what makes us idiots think we will be any better off with ours.
Enough of this BS!
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that this was a relatively new police force. Which begs the question, just how well trained were these officers. I have said before that I while I do have respect for LEO's. I have my doubts as to weather or not they are any better trained than those of us who carry concealed?
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I could get the jump on four people with a pocket knife and maybe kill them all, the tool makes no difference, so right away this guy is full of crap. If our gun laws made sense and people were allowed to defend themselves in public, someone else who didn't get suckerpunched along with those unfortunent police officers could have helped them. Our problems with violence have nothing to do with tools and everything to do with our sick, disgusting, perverse, free love lawyers and social 'do-gooders' letting these scum bags out of prison and into the public, and then disarming the rest of us as if the police could be our shadow all the time.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that this was a relatively new police force. Which begs the question, just how well trained were these officers. I have said before that I while I do have respect for LEO's. I have my doubts as to weather or not they are any better trained than those of us who carry concealed?
With appologies to all the good officers out there I will state what I know from time spent training officers (on the emergency medicine and rescue side) as well as spending time helping them at the range for training, practice and qualifications:
LEOs have so much to deal with that most do not have the firearm or weapon skills they need and should have. Many also have terrible basic street survival skills. It is frightening to see how poorly many handle their firearms, and how quick they go from observent and aware to brainless frat boys. As sad as it is when this happens, this is the type of setting to get officers in.
There are good officers out there that take their position in society very serious and are ready at all times. However, even when you take the citizen with a ccw that is just on a macho trip out of the picture, I think that "as a whole" the armed citizen has better awareness and skills than the average LEO.
Officers out there, please remember that I am talking in generalities and from my experience. There are good and there are bad in every area, but weapons use and self defense are two areas I see lacking in the average officer.
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AH! They finally posted my comment!
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AH! They finally posted my comment!
BRAVO!!!!
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We all know that your standard local police officer is, most of the time, just a social worker with a gun.
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Having lived in the area I can say there is a strong positive gun attitude where this occurred.
Many gun ranges and the NW's USA's biggest gun shows are near bye.
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Excellent reply Haz!!!
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Great job Haz on your reply! (http://www.giveupalready.com/images/smilies/worship2.gif)
As for the editorial by that rag, look to see who owns it. I've found that many editorials "written" by the paper are usually along the thoughts of the person that owns the company. (The Sarasota Herald is owned by the NY Times and Bloomberg's slime is all over the editorials there. :( )
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The point is guns don't kill people, People kill people with Guns. Guns are not the EVIL doer here it is the person shooting the Gun.
As for law enforcement traininng here in Oklahoma after the police academy officers are only required to get 25 hours of continuing education per year and to qualify with their firearm once a year. Most agencies barely have the budget for the minimum.
I do remember the department I worked for did hold a training session on the range for a scenario close to what happened in WA
back in 97 98 I dont know if they have held a simular training since 2001. I hope they do.
As for ccw this is a scenario to train for to protect yourself and loved ones.
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The point is guns don't kill people, People kill people with Guns. Guns are not the EVIL doer here it is the person shooting the Gun.
Needed to do some editing to your post, Ranger Dave, for clarity.
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Your right that is easier to understand thanks
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Those Cops were in condition white, totally unaware, Had the dirtbag used an axe he could have achieved the same result and probably even not gotten shot in the chest doing it.
Guns are not the problem, Judges and politicians who let dirtbags out of prison are the problem.
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Those Cops were in condition white, totally unaware, Had the dirtbag used an axe he could have achieved the same result and probably even not gotten shot in the chest doing it.
Guns are not the problem, Judges and politicians dirtbags who let other dirtbags out of prison are the problem.
Corrected for accuracy. ;D
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With appologies to all the good officers out there I will state what I know from time spent training officers (on the emergency medicine and rescue side) as well as spending time helping them at the range for training, practice and qualifications:
LEOs have so much to deal with that most do not have the firearm or weapon skills they need and should have. Many also have terrible basic street survival skills. It is frightening to see how poorly many handle their firearms, and how quick they go from observent and aware to brainless frat boys. As sad as it is when this happens, this is the type of setting to get officers in.
There are good officers out there that take their position in society very serious and are ready at all times. However, even when you take the citizen with a ccw that is just on a macho trip out of the picture, I think that "as a whole" the armed citizen has better awareness and skills than the average LEO.
Officers out there, please remember that I am talking in generalities and from my experience. There are good and there are bad in every area, but weapons use and self defense are two areas I see lacking in the average officer.
Sad, but true. As a former LEO, the night I was sworn in they handed me a gun, a badge and a set of car keys and told me to go to work. Training was nonexistant. And sad to say that, at least in that time and that place, the majority of my comrades were far more apt to spend their free time drinking coffee and shooting the shit than to spend some time on the range and become proficient with the tools of their trade. Again, there are exceptions to the rule (I tried very hard to be one of those exceptions), but just because you can put 10 rounds in the target once a year during qualifying doesn't mean you're ready to react when TSHTF.
Just my observations, your mileage may vary.
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Maybe not, but you have a better chance than the guy with the donut in his hand.
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Maybe not, but you have a better chance than the guy with the donut in his hand.
Actually, that was my intended point, but it got lost somewhere. ;D