The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: 2HOW on December 16, 2009, 12:03:15 PM
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The Gangsta Grip: As police chased Raymond "Ready" Martinez through Times Square on Thursday, the street hustler and aspiring rapper fired two shots, holding the gun sideways "like a character out of a rap video." According to the New York Post, Martinez's side grip caused the gun to jam, enabling police to shoot and kill the suspect. What's the point of holding a gun sideways? To look Hollywood, of course. Journalists and gun experts point to the 1993 Hughes brothers film Menace II Society, which depicts the side grip in its opening scene, as the movie that popularized the style. Although the directors claim to have witnessed a side grip robbery in Detroit in 1987, there are few reports of street gangs using the technique until after the movie came out. The Hughes brothers didn't invent the grip, though. In 1961's One-Eyed Jacks, Marlon Brando used it, as did Eli Wallach in 1966's The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Directors may prefer the style because it makes it easier to see both the weapon and the actor's face in a tight camera shot… (It may well be apocryphal but I was once told that one former gangbanger claimed that when he had been capering he never knew what gun he might pick up and whether the fit in his hand might cause the gun to shoot to the left or the right. By turning the gun sideways, he claimed that he converted any lateral deviation to vertical deviation, which meant he would still hit the opponent, perhaps higher or lower than he intended. The Hollywood theory sounds more plausible.)
http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=print&id=2238560
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The Gangsta Grip: As police chased Raymond "Ready" Martinez through Times Square on Thursday, the street hustler and aspiring rapper fired two shots, holding the gun sideways "like a character out of a rap video." According to the New York Post, Martinez's side grip caused the gun to jam, enabling police to shoot and kill the suspect. What's the point of holding a gun sideways? To look Hollywood, of course. Journalists and gun experts point to the 1993 Hughes brothers film Menace II Society, which depicts the side grip in its opening scene, as the movie that popularized the style. Although the directors claim to have witnessed a side grip robbery in Detroit in 1987, there are few reports of street gangs using the technique until after the movie came out. The Hughes brothers didn't invent the grip, though. In 1961's One-Eyed Jacks, Marlon Brando used it, as did Eli Wallach in 1966's The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Directors may prefer the style because it makes it easier to see both the weapon and the actor's face in a tight camera shot… (It may well be apocryphal but I was once told that one former gangbanger claimed that when he had been capering he never knew what gun he might pick up and whether the fit in his hand might cause the gun to shoot to the left or the right. By turning the gun sideways, he claimed that he converted any lateral deviation to vertical deviation, which meant he would still hit the opponent, perhaps higher or lower than he intended. The Hollywood theory sounds more plausible.)
http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=print&id=2238560
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I have heard similar theories about using a Thompson's muzzle climb to aid in sweeping multiple opponents.
I think I'll stick with short bursts on each opponent.
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How many 17 year old bangers think in terms of lateral vs vertical deviation when using an unfamiliar firearm? I think that the number is vanishingly small, or we'd have a lot more dead cops and Pincus would be talking about it. Hmmm....Pincus' next project, Popp'n Caps Gagnsta Style, by RP, "OG" Booh-Yah. ;D
FQ13
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Let's review, from the Original "OG" instructor on propa tekneek beeeyooootchhh....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewtfCKwDVzk
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nyte sytes
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nyte sytes
I figured that would come up.
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I figured that would come up.
+1
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There is an Israeli carry technique that specifies carrying a semi-auto pistol without a round in the chamber. In this technique, the pistol is drawn with the right hand, tilted sideways with the slide to the left, where it is grasped by the left hand and the action is cycled while the pistol remains sideways.
If a quick shot is required, the shot is made from the sideways position. I believe I have a video of this technique being demonstrated. I have heard that this video might have been Hollywood's inspiration.
I also recently saw a picture of a Revolutionary War soldier shooting an enemy soldier at very close range using this hold.
In any case, I'd believe I'd get a moral boost if I faced an opponent and saw them using this grip.
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If a Revolutionary soldier REALLY tried to use the "Gangsta Grip" the priming powder would have fallen out of the frizzen when he fired resulting in a misfire.
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There is an Israeli carry technique that specifies carrying a semi-auto pistol without a round in the chamber. In this technique, the pistol is drawn with the right hand, tilted sideways with the slide to the left, where it is grasped by the left hand and the action is cycled while the pistol remains sideways.
In any case, I'd believe I'd get a moral boost if I faced an opponent and saw them using this grip.
Why would you carry a pistol without a round in the chamber? What's the point? I mean, I leave my guns at home loaded with an empty chamber (kid free house), but thats because I figure I'll have that extra second it wil take to rack a round in. As far as carrying, I'd rather carry an SA revolver than an auto with an empty chamber. However as far as the morale boost, I half agree with you. If my assailant holds his gun sideways, I figure I can run away without getting hit (serpentine, serpentine ;D). On the other hand, if I do get hit, I'll die knowing I got killed by a fool and that will piss me off.
FQ13
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FQ, I don't know WHY they do it, but I have heard of that " Israeli method " as well. As I understood it though the pistol was rotated upright as the support hand moved back to the grip.
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Why would you carry a pistol without a round in the chamber? What's the point? I mean, I leave my guns at home loaded with an empty chamber (kid free house), but thats because I figure I'll have that extra second it wil take to rack a round in. As far as carrying, I'd rather carry an SA revolver than an auto with an empty chamber. However as far as the morale boost, I half agree with you. If my assailant holds his gun sideways, I figure I can run away without getting hit (serpentine, serpentine ;D). On the other hand, if I do get hit, I'll die knowing I got killed by a fool and that will piss me off.
FQ13
I was told they do it because that is the way they started back when they had any gun they could scrounge--umpteen different safeties, many used with worn sears, no transfer bars, etc. It was ONE MANUAL OF ARMS that was safe and consistent. Carried on because of tradition and need to unload for various buildings/securezones.
Just what I heard...
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That explanation makes a lot of sense.
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Why would you carry a pistol without a round in the chamber? What's the point? I mean, I leave my guns at home loaded with an empty chamber (kid free house), but thats because I figure I'll have that extra second it wil take to rack a round in. As far as carrying, I'd rather carry an SA revolver than an auto with an empty chamber. However as far as the morale boost, I half agree with you. If my assailant holds his gun sideways, I figure I can run away without getting hit (serpentine, serpentine ;D). On the other hand, if I do get hit, I'll die knowing I got killed by a fool and that will piss me off.
FQ13
Ask the Army. It is standard procedure to carry the Beretta M9 without a round in the chamber.
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Not true Ganster grip,but might be what there trying to mimick! The grip related to the C.A.R. Technique which has been proven to be a dominate grip over other systems.The SLIGHT angling of the pistol in the C.A.R. "locked" wrist position works in natural harmony with the wrist, and bone structures themselves,which increases wrist stability,and causes major reduction of arm fatigue.If Used with the C.A.R. stance give's natural bone alignment so there is no felt recoil, hence faster repeated shoots that are accurate!
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If a Revolutionary soldier REALLY tried to use the "Gangsta Grip" the priming powder would have fallen out of the frizzen when he fired resulting in a misfire.
A good flintlock will fire just fine upside-down. I have done this.
I thought the sideways shooting hold was developed by SWAT teams so they could shoot while holding the clear plastic shield in front of themselves.
Grizzle Bear
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I was told they do it because that is the way they started back when they had any gun they could scrounge--umpteen different safeties, many used with worn sears, no transfer bars, etc. It was ONE MANUAL OF ARMS that was safe and consistent. Carried on because of tradition and need to unload for various buildings/securezones.
Just what I heard...
+1 was told by several IMF folks as well. I believe they have eliminated it from the modern training in the army.
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ratcatcher wrote:
+1 was told by several IMF folks as well. I believe they have eliminated it from the modern training in the army.
IMF?
Impossible Mission Force? Really? Kewl! Was this before or after Tom Cruise rappelled into CIA HQ and stole the NOC list?
:P
;D
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not to get off topic,dog,but why do want to leave the chamber empty???????????????????i have my cs45 with a round in the chamber ALWAYS,whever on me, in my house, or in my vehicle.i want to be able to grab and shoot if i need to without wondering is it ready to fire or do i need to rack the slide.just my personal preference.word....
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not to get off topic,dog,but why do want to leave the chamber empty???????????????????i have my cs45 with a round in the chamber ALWAYS,whever on me, in my house, or in my vehicle.i want to be able to grab and shoot if i need to without wondering is it ready to fire or do i need to rack the slide.just my personal preference.word....
Because at the time the Israeli's were using a total mish mash of hand guns, everything from Nagant's, Lugers, brownings and pretty much every other pistol you can imagine. They needed a manual of arms that would work for everything.
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Someone said they saw a picture of a Revolutionary soldier using the "Gangsta Grip?" WHAT!?! That's before photography was invented! Oh please!
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Someone said they saw a picture of a Revolutionary soldier using the "Gangsta Grip?" WHAT!?! That's before photography was invented! Oh please!
It was me and it was a picture of a painting in one of the publications I read. Maybe American Rifleman. Sorry you took it so literally.
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It was me and it was a picture of a painting in one of the publications I read. Maybe American Rifleman. Sorry you took it so literally.
Taxation without representation? Boo-ya ye limey bastard! ;D
FQ13
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Actually the C.A.R.Technique is being taught to quite a few spec op forces world wide along with some LE Agencies,Thing is if to much angle is put on the pistol it defeats the whole purpose of what is trying to be implemented, and that's exactly what the gangsta's. are doing in attempting to be coll there angling the pistol to much and defeating the whole purpose of the technique!
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Someone said they saw a picture of a Revolutionary soldier using the "Gangsta Grip?" WHAT!?! That's before photography was invented! Oh please!
I saw video of it on the History Channel.................. ;D
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Someone said they saw a picture of a Revolutionary soldier using the "Gangsta Grip?" WHAT!?! That's before photography was invented! Oh please!
Don't they have DRAWING, in Ca any more ?
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Because at the time the Israeli's were using a total mish mash of hand guns, everything from Nagant's, Lugers, brownings and pretty much every other pistol you can imagine. They needed a manual of arms that would work for everything.
....although they did have to adapt the technique a little when dealing with Webley and S&W revolvers....
Taxation without representation? Boo-ya ye limey bastard! ;D
FQ13
We da peeps be independent of y'all's Redcoat posse, dog.....
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We da peeps be independent of y'all's Redcoat posse, dog.....
Did you go to high school in South Dallas, too??? ;D
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Did you go to high school in South Dallas, too??? ;D
No, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn on Industrial Blvd. once.... :o