The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on December 18, 2009, 02:16:20 PM
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Warning: this will make your heart hurt
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/18/video-mother-kills-newborn-cant-be-charged-with-crime/
:( :( :( :(
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This woman probably screams about the rights of the terrorist detainees at GITMO. It is a sick and perverted world that we live in. She is a murderer plan and simple. If that child was born and breathing on its own, I don't care what it's attached to. You just killed your living breathing child you sick bi#$h!
Close Eric, it's does pull at the heart strings, but it angers me more than anything.
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This woman probably screams about the rights of the terrorist detainees at GITMO. It is a sick and perverted world that we live in. She is a murderer plan and simple. If that child was born and breathing on its own, I don't care what it's attached to. You just killed your living breathing child you sick bi#$h!
Close Eric, it's does pull at the heart strings, but it angers me more than anything.
Agreed, and I'm pro-choice. That choice stops when the child reaches viability, unless there is a threat to the mothers life or physical well being (in which cases its just SD). This was neither.
FQ13
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She may be beyond the reach of man's law, but she will not be beyond the reach of God's law.
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She may be beyond the reach of man's law, but she will not be beyond the reach of God's law.
I read a fortune cookie once......It mentioned that karma can be a real bitch.
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She has earned herself a special place in hell.
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PRO CHOICE ? then let them and you burn in HELL. No one on this planet has the right to take a life indiscriminately. We must kill in battle , but the innocents must be left alone.
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PRO CHOICE ? then let them and you burn in HELL. No one on this planet has the right to take a life indiscriminately. We must kill in battle , but the innocents must be left alone.
Careful with the language 2how, because you're talking about a lot of folks who are no better or worse then you. They have just looked at the facts and come to a different conclusion. Reasoning works well, threats and condemnation, well... I'm just pointing out that its the least effective way to persuade someone as it always gets their back up. My advice is that you make your case, not just condemn more than half of the populace to hell. This IS NOT to start an abortion arguement. I won't engage in one and we all know what we believe and why. Its just about style 2How, and how you make your case.
FQ13
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There are hundreds of thousands if no millions of adults who would take that baby sight unseen and provide a quality of life for him/her sparing no expense or heartache. So now ask yourself about that ending life thing. Why? Because she was mentally unbalanced? Was it a desperate try at revenge at the father for leaving her? Was it a sick pleasure? Scared? Ridicule does not have a place here. The only positive that can come from this is education. Learning why this mother took her baby's life by suffocation, which is extremely painful and horrifying, to try and prevent it from ever happening again. Period.
Then make an example out of her if you wish physically or legally, but after realizing what she has done, death will be welcomed by her aching heart. It just proves how useless laws are at times. When commonsense is null and void because the "books" say so.
Hawcktwee man , leaves a bad taste NO MATTER WHAT!
tex
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Careful with the language 2how, because you're talking about a lot of folks who are no better or worse then you. They have just looked at the facts and come to a different conclusion. Reasoning works well, threats and condemnation, well... I'm just pointing out that its the least effective way to persuade someone as it always gets their back up. My advice is that you make your case, not just condemn more than half of the populace to hell. This IS NOT to start an abortion arguement. I won't engage in one and we all know what we believe and why. Its just about style 2How, and how you make your case.
FQ13
This from a guy with no effective moral compass.
It is not simply a difference of opinion, FQ, it has nothing to do with "facts". You have to make a stand, and murdering babies - in or out of the womb - is wrong. Period. If you stand for nothing, then you will fall for anything (bho, pro-abortion, AR sporters, etc.).
2how has a point. One of the things I found frustrating living in the Chicago metro area were the monthly if not more frequent news reports of some atrocity frequented by (usually a Welfare) mom on her kid or kids. Like:
- the one who strangled her child with a curtain cord
- the trio who attacked a woman and cut her child from her belly, killing the Mom, just because one of the 3 wanted a baby and this completely innocent woman was going to have one
- the 6 kids who get taken away from Mom, each with its own Daddy - those that can be identified. And then, more often than not, returned to the abusive Mom, cuz golly gee whiz, she's had a rough go of things. Then one of the kids ends of up dead, or severely burned, or molested by Mommy's new boyfriend, or how ever it ends up.
God will wreak His vengeance and they will will face His justice in hell for their crimes. I just wish it didn't take so long, but it is in His hands. I understand 2how's frustration and rage.
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Try looking for a little more of God's love and forgiveness. I'd start with John 3:16, then move on to the Book Matthew. I know that's a cheap shot Path (course, so was the Sportical comment ;)), but for me, what differentiates Christianity from most other religions is that God's capacity to love and forgive is front and center. Its not a footnote, its the corner stone (compare and contrast with Islam). As far as having no moral compass, I have the same one Jefferson and Franklin used. Classical liberalism. Try John Locke's "Second Treatise on Civil Government" or J.S. Mill's "On Liberty". That isn't a condescending reading list either, its two great books that set the moral and political course for the country. You want to to understand my politics, those two books along Alf's copy of "The Road to Serfdom' will answer the question. We may disagree on abortion, and you may even be right, but understand that my answer wasn't chosen on a whim either.
Peace
FQ13
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This is an awful act, and I hope my reply will help some of you, I think none of us would stand and watch a newborn be killed, and would in fact stand up and defend it to the best of our abilities. This particular quirk in the law is unbelievable, this woman committed murder, simple. Law is on her side. You have to. at this point, and when considering abortion, allow for god to be the judge, and let God set his sentence.
I have always said, if we really believed that abortion was murder, then we should kill back, God in my opinion gave us an out, let that is Cesar's be rendered unto Cesar. Meaning, this is beyond your control, and your soul should not suffer for it.
This is the kind of thing, that tries our souls.
God bless, you all.
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FTA:
Investigators tell WSLS the baby’s airway was still blocked. They say the baby was under bedding and had been suffocated by her mother. Investigators say because the mother and baby were still connected by the umbilical cord and placenta, state law does not consider the baby to be a separate life. Therefore, the mother cannot be charged.
“In the state of Virginia as long as the umbilical cord is attached and the placenta is still in the mother, if the baby comes out alive the mother can do whatever she wants to with that baby to kill it.“, says Investigator Tracy Emerson. “She could shoot the baby, stab the baby. As long as it’s still attached to her in some form by umbilical cord or something it’s no crime in the state of Virginia.“
Shaking my head in disbelief .............. I just ain't got the words to express my thoughts on this one.
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All of you on both sides have been brain washed on this abortion crap, Those of you who oppose a medical procedure that is sometimes required are pig headed Luddites.
Those who "Demand this or any other medical procedure "On Demand" are pin headed a$$ holes.
Replace the word abortion with transplant or amputation and the stupidity and foolishness of both sides becomes obvious.
On THE ORIGINAL post, the psycho bitch should get the death penalty like any one else that murders an infant.
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All of you on both sides have been brain washed on this abortion crap, Those of you who oppose a medical procedure that is sometimes required are pig headed Luddites.
Those who "Demand this or any other medical procedure "On Demand" are pin headed a$$ holes.
Replace the word abortion with transplant or amputation and the stupidity and foolishness of both sides becomes obvious.
A breath of fresh air as always ;), but on this point, more right than wrong.
FQ13 who still wonders why Tom never won Miss Congeaniality in the Corps.
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She may be beyond the reach of man's law, but she will not be beyond the reach of God's law.
I would say you are absolutely correct. But God is a God of love and peace as well as other things. In this instance, though, I would cling to II Thessalonians 2:12. We need to understand, I think, that most of the termination of the unborn is with convenience in mine so that econmic impact and hardship is less (that one may have some pleasure without the hardship of a child around). There is very little instance of medical necessity and that, as tough a decision as there can be, was always a private decision with no meaningful legal consequence except that these instances were blown out of proportion by abortionists and used as a showcase to associate and justify wanton, unrestricted abortion.
I think II Thessalonians 2:12 is quite appropriate, both for those who practician and support and those who do not practician but support abortion. The verse preceding is quite telling as well.
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I would say you are absolutely correct. But God is a God of love and peace as well as other things. In this instance, though, I would cling to II Thessalonians 2:12. We need to understand, I think, that most of the termination of the unborn is with convenience in mine so that econmic impact and hardship is lessed (that one may have some pleasure without the hardship of a child around). There is very little instance of medical necessity and that, as tough a decision as there can be, was always a private decision with no meaningful legal consequence except that these instances were blown out of proportion by abortionists and used as a showcase to associate and justify wanton, unrestricted abortion.
I think II Thessalonians 2:12 is quite appropriate, both for those who practician and support and those who do not practician but support abortion. The verse preceding is quite telling as well.
+100
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Careful with the language 2how, because you're talking about a lot of folks who are no better or worse then you. They have just looked at the facts and come to a different conclusion. Reasoning works well, threats and condemnation, well... I'm just pointing out that its the least effective way to persuade someone as it always gets their back up. My advice is that you make your case, not just condemn more than half of the populace to hell. This IS NOT to start an abortion arguement. I won't engage in one and we all know what we believe and why. Its just about style 2How, and how you make your case.
FQ13
What do you call viability ? Its not about style its about murder. I suppose partial birth abortions are ok also ? There is no middle of the road on this although the far left will have you believe its ok. Not to worry ,if you dont believe there will be consequences, dont be so touchy. I dont need to make a case , its been made.
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What do you call viability ?
That question is above his pay grade.
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I hate religious and right to life debates on the internet, and I will only participate in limited fashion ...
While in a very liberal public university a professor stated it better than I ever could when it came to "when does life begin." He stated that whether you you are a evolutionist or creationist; a Christian, Jew or athiest; smart dude or idiot, the fact is that life began once, and all we do is pass it on from one to another. In the animal kingdom, we take one half of a cell, attach it to another half cell, and you get a single cell that divides and divides and divides until you get an organism that looks like you and me ... poor little cell ;)
Over simplified ... Maybe, but in the words of Forrest Gump "That is all I have to say about that."
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Agreed, and I'm pro-choice.
FQ13
There ARE choices......the choice to get pregnant and the choice to abstain. Another choice would be to give the child up or not. Any other choices beyond that are unacceptable. This woman needs to suffer, and she will eventually.
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What do you call viability ? Its not about style its about murder. I suppose partial birth abortions are ok also ? There is no middle of the road on this although the far left will have you believe its ok. Not to worry ,if you dont believe there will be consequences, dont be so touchy. I dont need to make a case , its been made.
That's true, the case HAS been made (and beat beyond death ) The SCOTUS said OK. The people screaming the loudest against that would be amung the first to go ballistic if some one tried to overturn Heller Vs. DC.
As for the other side, pay for it out of YOUR pocket, next time maybe you won't be to cheap to buy the rubbers.
The fact is that none of the people getting excited on this subject on this thread are ever going to GET pregnant so the opinions expressed don't actually amount to a p!$$ hole in the snow.
So can we please get back to the original topic that some people are really f-cked up.
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That question is above his pay grade.
And above his moral character and intellect. Where in Tn. ? and welcome to the worst of downrange ;D
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And above his moral character and intellect. Where in Tn. ? and welcome to the worst of downrange ;D
And here I agree with 2how (though we might differ on who represents the worst of the forum :D), still, we do agree on welcoming you aboard. All folks are welcome. As long as you support the 2A, the rest of it is just stuff we argue about, no harm, no foul.
FQ13
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There ARE choices......the choice to get pregnant and the choice to abstain. Another choice would be to give the child up or not. Any other choices beyond that are unacceptable. This woman needs to suffer, and she will eventually.
so a rape vic needs to carry her rapist child for 9 months then spend the rest of her life worrying about that child?( even if they give it up for adoption, you are still going to think about it) or they can take a pill and have a miscarriage. Another option is a minor surgery.
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What if that rape vic is carrying the 2nd coming of Baby Jesus?
Just for argument TAB.
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so a rape vic needs to carry her rapist child for 9 months then spend the rest of her life worrying about that child?( even if they give it up for adoption, you are still going to think about it) or they can take a pill and have a miscarriage. Another option is a minor surgery.
No one ever said the choice would be easy. "Thou shalt not kill", whether you agree or not. There are 50 million souls since Roe Vs Wade that never got the chance to have this conversation, ask them the same question!
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What if that rape vic is carrying the 2nd coming of Baby Jesus?
Just for argument TAB.
what if you don't beleave in jesus? Or "thou shall not kill" ?
something to ponder, more people on this planet don't beleave in jesus then do.
at what point does it become a child?
there have been millions more miscarragies then have been aborted, does that mean they didn't get a chance to come to this earth?
arguing faith with science is pointless.
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No one ever said the choice would be easy. "
No women anyway, but lots of men think it is. Its like being being raped twice and never being able to get past it. Second coming of Jesus my ass, its a by product of the violation of your body and will, forced on you with blood, pain and screaming. Me, I'm not going to judge what a woman decides to do with that. If you are are, you are either a lot braver, or a lot dumber, or a lot more arrogant than I am.
FQ13 who will take his Y chromosone and be quiet
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what if you don't beleave in jesus? Or "thou shall not kill" ?
something to ponder, more people on this planet don't beleave in jesus then do.
I am not talking about this planet, TAB, just America, and last I checked God and Jesus are still the majority. Just a scientific fact of faith. ;)
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Don't be pulling that liberal hypocrite crap of carrying a gun for SD and then spouting about thou shall not kill.
The actual Greek translation is thou shall not MURDER. Which is also something I don't subscribe to, I can think of plenty of cases where whacking some a hole is perfectly justified.
While I don't think the Govt should be using my money to pay for ANYTHING but the PO and Military.
I will call all of you who are screaming about how terrible abortion is Hypocrites, Where is your love of PERSONAL LIBERTY now ?
You sound just as bad as Olberman or dead Kennedy, "Good for me but not for thee."
You people REALLY disgust me sometimes. (All people really disgust me sometimes)
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I am not talking about this planet, TAB, just America, and last I checked God and Jesus are still the majority. Just a scientific fact of faith. ;)
so every one that lives outside of the country does not count? thats very christian of you( and yes I mean that litterly)
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No TAB, They don't.
I am not a citizen of the world and don't really care what happens to them.
(Although I DO enjoy 2 things, watching the Israeli's kick the crap out of Muslims, and the fist fights in the Japanese Parliament. ;D
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I think there is simultaneously personal liberty and personal responsibility to consider. If one fails to assume responsibility for their actions should that same one deny someone their personal liberty to live? Is not the Constitutional guarantee of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness owed to all citizens?
When our Constitution was written the unborn were considered persons with rights they do not enjoy today. Abortion is murder and I am responsible for my children as well as being responsible to them.
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The Constitution DOES NOT protect "Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" it's Life Liberty and PROPERTY"
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#life
"Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"
This phrase is commonly attributed to the Constitution, but it comes from the Declaration of Independence. The 5th Amendment does offer protections to our "life, liberty, or property," noting we cannot be deprived of any of them without due process of law.
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U b rite tom.
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Tom you should not get disgusted of friends or acquaintances , like all things in life and definitely on this forum, they are opinions of the people. Opinions, like orifices of the backside, usually stink if they are not yours. Now defending yourself and family, along with arming oneself, is actually recommended many times in the Bible. On the other hand protecting you child is also, as with anything you are interpreting a book, of many authors, from different time periods and trying to understand how to argue your point. The thing is what every Christian will tell you is the Number 1 thing is having Faith. Wither wrong or right is debatable but your faith is the starting and ending statement. Many things will test it, try it, make you want to deny it and eventually help you find your way. Looking at your opinion is valid, but to compare to the
Olberman or dead Kennedy
is a little low. I truly do not even place FQ TAB in that category, just because he still has a flicker of a chance. JOKE Just like everything else, people have free will, it is you who controls yourself, I of myself, responsibility is a "female dog".
Recap of point, do not hold peoples beliefs of God's word against them. :)
*edit- FQ ment TAB sorry and still joking
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so every one that lives outside of the country does not count? thats very christian of you( and yes I mean that litterly)
Everyone counts and accounts of and to their own actions, it is responsibility towit i am referring. I am a "Cat-lick" so my beliefs stem from the history that if those whom wrong my beliefs or brotheren then we pull a "Crusades" on them. ;)
Now i am in the gray area of this debate, seriously. I do believe in Choice. Believe it truly is God's and Jesus' intention of Their actions and Words to give us the ability to "choose" . Also responsibility for the actions of those choices. To go even one step further, the "butterfly effect" is also a part of the responsibility. But you and I, he or she, Christian or other all have a choice.
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Wow, this got out of hand quickly - but what else is new on DRTV? ? ? ;)
Tom, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, not Greek That was the New Testament. But you are right that the Hebrew word is for murder, although some "scholars" will tell you otherwise.
This is not about personal freedom anymore than it is about FQ's "facts". This is about a form of murder.
Murder in the early colonies was dealt with quickly and decisively for a reason - it destroyed the cohesiveness of the community. For the same reason (I would hope but I think probably not), we do still have the death penalty in much of this country.
Our Founding Fathers would be aghast these days at a great many things, but murder of a living person would have disgusted them as well. Murder of an unborn child by a doctor would be absolutely incomprehensible to them.
We have grown too used to hearing of murders, hardened against the impact that they have, and too weak to attack the forces that have created a society so calloused to these murders.We're not talking about the exceptional case here, we are talking about contemporary American culture that has become so profoundly a culture of death.
There is an interesting moral dilemma that is often posed - if you could go back to 1930 in Germany, and kill Adolph Hitler scot-free, no capture, no risk of any earthly punishment, knowing all you know will happen if you don't, would you violate the Commandment not to commit murder and kill Hitler? Oddly perhaps, there is no right or wrong answer, your answer defines where you would draw the line.
As a Christian, TAB, I am not called upon to worry about the rest of the world. I am called upon to be a witness of God's grace in my life, and to take a stand against evil, to fight the forces of evil wherever and whenever I encounter them, and however I can. The rest is up to God.
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It's the attitude that disgusts me.
OK maybe not Olderman, But it resembles Dead Kennedy to a T a bunch of people trying to dictate to another bunch of people "For the children".
Like Jefferson said, if it "neither picks your pocket, nor breaks your leg" what some one else chooses to do is pretty much none of your business, any more than what YOU do is any of theirs.
Also I'm getting VERY tired of 2How dam-ing to Hell every one who he disagrees with on this sort of stuff. I don't know about where HE's from, but up here we gave up on burning witches about 350 years ago.
In fact that is a VERY apt comparison.
The Salem witch trials had NOTHING to do with religion or witchcraft, they were about politics in the form of control of the Salem Parish records, The people who were hung were all from the faction that had lost power, but were raising a stink about it.
The abortion issue is much the same, when one faction wants wants to draw attention from how they are screwing you they bring up a 30 year old SCOTUS case, or Swine flu, or Tiger Woods infidelity, or Lindsey Lohan or some other BS alleged news because the the average person prefers T&A or being able to scream mindless slogan over actually THINKING about things like the results of the Climate change summit or the the Health care cornholing.
The stupidity of the masses has always been the biggest problem and greatest tool of Government.
Path, "Our Founding Fathers would be aghast these days at a great many things, but murder of a living person would have disgusted them as well. Murder of an unborn child by a doctor would be absolutely incomprehensible to them."
You are misinformed on this point, While a surgical procedure would have shocked most of them (Franklin would have had several technical questions) the the practice would have been no more surprising to them than the prescription of Herbs for the same purpose 1,000 years ago, or 4,000 for that matter.
To finish I will stand by my statements that none of you have any right to condemn some one elses choices and then getting huffy about the grabbers condemning you for yours.
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It's the attitude that disgusts me.
OK maybe not Olderman, But it resembles Dead Kennedy to a T a bunch of people trying to dictate to another bunch of people "For the children".
Like Jefferson said, if it "neither picks your pocket, nor breaks your leg" what some one else chooses to do is pretty much none of your business, any more than what YOU do is any of theirs.
Also I'm getting VERY tired of 2How dam-ing to Hell every one who he disagrees with on this sort of stuff. I don't know about where HE's from, but up here we gave up on burning witches about 350 years ago.
In fact that is a VERY apt comparison.
The Salem witch trials had NOTHING to do with religion or witchcraft, they were about politics in the form of control of the Salem Parish records, The people who were hung were all from the faction that had lost power, but were raising a stink about it.
The abortion issue is much the same, when one faction wants wants to draw attention from how they are screwing you they bring up a 30 year old SCOTUS case, or Swine flu, or Tiger Woods infidelity, or Lindsey Lohan or some other BS alleged news because the the average person prefers T&A or being able to scream mindless slogan over actually THINKING about things like the results of the Climate change summit or the the Health care cornholing.
The stupidity of the masses has always been the biggest problem and greatest tool of Government.
You know Tom, sometimes I think you actually SHOULD run for office. I probably won't vote for you, but I will raise money. Dear God, the amusement factor of the political class getting hit in the face with cold hard truth, just like getting hit with a wet fish, will be worth every dime.
FQ13
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Would make the Sunday morning News shows more fun wouldn't it ;D Has any one ever been Bleeped on "Face the Nation" ? ;D
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Would make the Sunday morning News shows more fun wouldn't it ;D Has any one ever been Bleeped on "Face the Nation" ? ;D
I wonder if the debates would run with a delay for bleeps, or just cut-away format. :-\
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Elanor Clift would have a stroke ;D
My interviews would be rated by Body count ;D
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I wonder how they would bleep out the closed caption, maybe place ye old ( :-[ ) on the screen everytime a bleep comes on.
Come to think of it, there would be so many bleeps it would probably sound like the "off the air" emergency system, just with animation.
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Geez, I take a few hours to watch a movie and come back to find I'm a hypocrite!
Shit, you're probably right Tom. I carry a gun, I believe in the death penelty and I served in the Military so I suppose I am hypocritical in a sense. I DO find abortion reprehensible and I don't have a problem with that.
Maybe for me, it's a little too close to home and that's all I'm going to say!
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Geez, I take a few hours to watch a movie and come back to find I'm a hypocrite!
Shit, you're probably right Tom. I carry a gun, I believe in the death penelty and I served in the Military so I suppose I am hypocritical in a sense. I DO find abortion reprehensible and I don't have a problem with that.
Maybe for me, it's a little too close to home and that's all I'm going to say!
We don't have to agree Timothy, just respect that others have their reasons for disagreeing. You have yours, and we all have ours. At the end of the day, we stay friends.
FQ13
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Warning: this will make your heart hurt
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/18/video-mother-kills-newborn-cant-be-charged-with-crime/
:( :( :( :(
Rewind a little, this is the subject of the post. Agreed. I do not want or have hard feelings to be had toward a person on this form. Especially in the name or memory of this baby or its suffocating "BabyKilling" mother. Abortion is not the issue here. It is gutlessness of our elected officials to not prosecute this horrible and evil woman . Take all of your bad feelings and place them where they belong, on that garbage can souled woman. You all know where I stand, if not there is a personal message ability and I will enlighten you. Other than that, i ask you , do not misplace your anger.
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Rewind a little, this is the subject of the post. Agreed. I do not want or have hard feelings to be had toward a person on this form. Especially in the name or memory of this baby or its suffocating "BabyKilling" mother. Abortion is not the issue here. It is gutlessness of our elected officials to not prosecute this horrible and evil woman . Take all of your bad feelings and place them where they belong, on that garbage can souled woman. You all know where I stand, if not there is a personal message ability and I will enlighten you. Other than that, i ask you , do not misplace your anger.
Hear Hear! And let that be the last word on this. Texcaliber said it best, anything else is wasted bandwidth.
FQ13 who is taking his own advice and shutting up
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I really don't feel like getting into the middle of this but I have always wondered why do Dems support abortion?
It seems like it only hurts thier own voting base. A majority of babies being aborted (looking at the sampling of people likely to seek abortions) would probably end up on the govt dime anyway and therefore be beneficial to the Dem machine.
.02
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I really don't feel like getting into the middle of this but I have always wondered why do Dems support abortion?
It seems like it only hurts thier own voting base. A majority of babies being aborted (looking at the sampling of people likely to seek abortions) would probably end up on the govt dime anyway and therefore be beneficial to the Dem machine.
.02
you would be amazed at how many one issue voters there are in this country. There are a ton of people that are DEM( and GOP for that matter) on this issue alone.
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I really don't feel like getting into the middle of this but I have always wondered why do Dems support abortion?
It seems like it only hurts thier own voting base. A majority of babies being aborted (looking at the sampling of people likely to seek abortions) would probably end up on the govt dime anyway and therefore be beneficial to the Dem machine.
.02
Alonzo Rachel on PJTV addresses this from time to time when the Dems start screaming "RACISM".
He asks "If Democrats are not racist, then why are the majority of Planned Parenthood" Clinics in Black communities ? "
And to get back on topic This psycho b!tch has nothing to do with what we are arguing about, We all seem to agree SHE should have her throat slit like a pig.
But I DID kind of like that idea of doing the Talk Shows ;D
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To slip back to the derailed portion of the thread, there is a sense of how can two people disagree and one be justified. In that, there is either a moral relativsm where people decide the issues of right and wrong or there is established, as I believe, a moral foundation by God by which to guide and judge our actions. If you believe in a moral foundation of like faith then it is a matter of interpretation.
It is disturbing when death of a person is the focus and cause or justification allows multiple conflicting causes to be likened to one another for either justification or to be refudiated.
Thou shalt not kill. Clearly, historically and by the meaning of the words of most original text kill means murder. If you are a moral relativist you can say, among others of your like, that killing is killing regardless of the cause and make it mean whatever you like. If that is one's leaning, please do not attempt to say you are of my faith when that is not what the teachings of my faith are founded on....or worse attempt to define my faith for me as that is clearly an attempt to manipulate without the understanding of my faith. "Interpretation" is claimed many times when one wants to deny teaching and guidance given to fit that person's desire of what they would like something to be and at the same time drum up approval from someone for justification outside of guidance.
Is a man justified to kill to protect his family...certainly he is and at the same time it is not murder. Many who profess to know what Christians believe or who would like to believe something different to solve some personal maladjustment will say you are damned to kill to protect your family because of "Thou shalt not kill." Clearly this is wrong thinking and a misrepresentation of the meaning of the guidance "Thou shalt not kill." Yes a faith of Chritianity can disagree by interpretation but only one interpretation is right...let the brother who believes killing is murder go his own way but for myself and the vast majority of Chritianity prior to the 60's enlightenment it is worthy to defend my family and a man should lay down his life as necessary for his wife and children.
The last 50 years of love, peace and forgiveness focus above all has led, I believe to a perverted Gospel. I leave this thread with the story of Noah and the Ark. God showed his love, peace and forgiveness to Noah and his family. Perhaps the Ark should have been named "God is Love". That would have blessed all those other people, wouldn't it? You know which ones if you know the Bible...the ones God killed in The Flood because they were wicked and evil.