The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: twyacht on December 23, 2009, 06:32:57 AM
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Well, Sig really joined the AR club right down to the fwd. assist. Barrel lengths from 7" to 20"
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/16/sig516-sig-sauer-enters-the-ar-15-market/
Than you have Benelli with, according to Jan. G&A, an AR "alternative". The MR1.
http://www.benelliusa.com/rifles/benelli_mr1_self_defense_rifle.php
Wouldn't mind the Sig with either a 7 or 10 inch barrel. I wonder why they went with 1:7 twist vs 1:9?
2010 seems to be another "Black Rifle Year" 8)
So many choices...
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http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-12/200912169137-sig516.pdf
More on the Sig 516. Bill T.
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Dang you guys are quick! I just saw my American Rifleman this morning. Any bets on this being a topic on today's MB podcast?
...wait...Dang! Bane got today's podcast up early...WTF?
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Now, I can't help but think the Sig 556 could be on borrowed time? It's a nice rifle, but it's priced higher than a lot of piston AR-15 models. If Sig brings out this weapon, and it's as good of a success as the Ruger piston AR, the Sig 556 could possibly go bye, bye??? Of course that is total speculation on my part, but it would factor into my decision to purchase a Sig 556 with this new weapon looming on the horizon. Bill T.
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Now, I can't help but think the Sig 556 could be on borrowed time? It's a nice rifle, but it's priced higher than a lot of piston AR-15 models. If Sig brings out this weapon, and it's as good of a success as the Ruger piston AR, the Sig 556 could possibly go bye, bye??? Of course that is total speculation on my part, but it would factor into my decision to purchase a Sig 556 with this new weapon looming on the horizon. Bill T.
Same thought here Bill. I was at Cabela's yesterday and took a look at a 556 and up unitl yesterday was giving it some serious thought. Lucky for my wife that Christmas has put a serious dent in what is normally my gun budget.
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Another thing to consider is that from a company earnings standpoint, Sig has a much better chance of selling the 516 AR-15 to law enforcement and various militaries, than they do the 556. Thus far the bulk of Sig 556 sales have been to sport shooters and gun enthusiasts. That is nowhere near the sales they would enjoy with several law enforcement, and or military contracts. As they say, go where the money is! At the moment that appears to be the piston AR-15 market. Bill T.
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Now, I can't help but think the Sig 556 could be on borrowed time?
I saddens me but that is probably a correct statement. I'm unhappy about it because I was thrilled when SIG decided to introduce the rifle...to think they were going to bring out a civilian version of the 550/551 was awesome. Then they let the marketing guys get in the way (I'm in strategic marketing so I can make fun of the profession) and they tried to turn it into an AR15. AR stock, AR mags, AR handguard. In fact, even their advertising calls it an "AR style rifle" (listen to MBs podcast or Tom Gresham GunTalk...that's what their advertisment says). I get the idea of trying to appeal to the US market...but they should have done that with an AR.
Bubba -- who is just learning to spell AR -- looks at the SIG and can't understand why it costs more than other ARs. He thinks it is one...and SIG hasn't done much to dispell that.
Now the 556 Classic was finally what they should have introduced. I'm fine with the AR-compatible mags. I think they've already damaged their reputation (many versions have cheap handguards TAPCO-style to keep costs down...on a $1500+ rifle)
Hopefully they will keep the Classic in their line up. It will not be a big seller except to some enthusiasts. Time will tell if they pull it. And they are pretty late with the AR...later than Ruger but as stated above, there is probably a good incentive to be able to offer LEO agencies a patrol rifle with the P226/P229 pistols as a package deal.
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It will be a shame if it's production does come to an end, as I liked the rifle too. A lot of the ARFCOM crowd ran it into the dirt, but it did not, or does not deserve it. It is a good, solid, dependable rifle. I think it was priced a little too high, but it seemed to sell well, and gather a following in spite of it's cost. I "almost" bought one a couple of times, it's just that there were other guns I wanted more, than it was anything about the Sig 556 I didn't like. This is the way the gun business operates. There are a great many guns that ceased production for one reason or another. I hope the Sig 556 doesn't join that list. Bill T.
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Tam sums it up best.
http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2009/12/unexpected.html
The same goes for 1911's
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(http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/MR1Ext.Mag-Silo.jpg)
Looks like a Beretta Storm and a ATI "Strikeforce" buttstock had an unholy union in a hot tub with a fifth of Wild Turkey.
Meh... :-\
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Looks like a Beretta Storm and a ATI "Strikeforce" buttstock had an unholy union in a hot tub with a fifth of Wild Turkey.
;D I have to agree! I wish these designers would put down the crack pipe long enough to realize most gun enthusiasts are for the most part, traditional guys. Lately, it seems as though everything they come out with looks like something Darth Vader designed after a Tupperware party. I like pistol cartridges in carbines, but not if it's going to look like an abortion. Marlin was on the right track with their Camp Carbines in 9 MM and .45 ACP, but they were never effectively marketed. I think if they were to reintroduce them in Stainless, with a nice Hogue Overmolded Stock, or a nice coffee laminate, they would be pleasantly surprised how many they would sell. Bill T.
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In Feb' 08, my Sig 556, was just at $1200.00 NIB. Than during the real "Black Rifle Panic" Last winter and early Spring, the prices rose to the $2000 mark. They have come down slightly.
The S&W M+P 15T AR, back than was $800-$900. Now their $1100-$1400. DPMS "Sporticals" are less than $1000. (ask FQ).
LWRC and STAG's, etc,... the "price point" for AR's is the "$1000" range. Sig is very good of pricing competitively while remaining somewhat higher than the "entry level". Same for their pistols.
This just is an evolution to gain market share. ie Benelli. MSRP $1299.00 real world is the magic $1000 approx.
With all the other AR variants, competition is a good thing. Now if BHO/AG Holder pull another "fast one" they all go up anyway.
Just like last Winter/Spring.
I think the 556 will be around a while, as an alternative for why I bought mine: IT WASN"T A TRADITIONAL AR like everyone else had.
I love my 556, but you are correct in the "mass" AR market: They like tradition, parts availability, and a common design that has been around a while. ie 1911 variants.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/DSCF1490.jpg)
Maybe Eric (moderator on this thread), can post a 556 follow up after his "testing" earlier this year, which passed with flying colors. ;)
"Toes are for posterity".... :D
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Too bad about your career as a foot model never really took off. ;D ;D
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Mailman just brought the new American Rifleman, it has a review of the Para-Ordnance TTR "AR" all the traditional AR bells and whistles, with an MSRP of almost $2400. Real world pricing will still be on the top tier of the AR market.
In a world of Chevy's, there will always be "some" who want a Cadillac.
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Twyacht,
You have a really beautiful Sig 556 there! I'm tempted to get one, regardless of how they fare in the current marketplace. It's an excellent gun. I hope they stay in production. As with much of business today, much is decided on current economics. That doesn't change the fact the Sig 556 has a big following, and most likely will continue to do so. Bill T.
P.S. NICE FEET! ;D ;D