The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on December 23, 2009, 01:06:05 PM
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Well, color me surprised -- Not really. ;D
http://mensnewsdaily.com/newswax/2009/12/22/fbi-gun-sales-up-murders-down/
The Federal Bureau of Investigation reports a ten percent drop in murders during the first six months of 2009, while at a time US gun sales are going through the roof, according to reports obtained by the National Association of Chiefs of Police. Meanwhile, gun sales to private citizens soared almost 30 percent during that same period.
Gun rights advocates claim that these numbers are further proof that there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, state officials from the Second Amendment Foundation, a civil rights group. Further, the SAF contends that the increase in private citizen gun-ownership may have had an impact on reducing violent crime.
In a survey conducted by the National Association of Chiefs of Police of the nation’s police executives, with regard to private citizens owning firearms for sport or self-defense, 93.6 percent of the respondents supported civilian gun-ownership rights. Ninety-six percent of the police chiefs and sheriffs believe criminals obtain firearms from illegal sources and 92.2 percent revealed they hadn’t arrested anyone for violation of the so-called “waiting period” laws. When asked if citizens’ concealed-weapons permits would reduce violent crime, 63.1 percent said yes.
The latest FBI data show that homicides declined by 10 percent from the same period in 2008. Meanwhile, data released by the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) shows that during the first six months of this year, gun sales were up.
January 2009 background checks rose 28.8 percent over the same month in 2008, February’s NICS checks were up 23.3 percent and in March they were up 29.9 percent over March 2008. The trend continued in April, with NICS checks up 30.3 percent, while May showed a slowdown, up only 15.5 percent, and in June they were up 18.1 percent.
“What this shows,” said SAF Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb, “is that gun prohibitionists are all wrong when they argue that more guns result in more crime. Firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens are no threat to anyone. Perhaps violent criminals were actually discouraged by all of those gun sales earlier this year, because the media made a point of reporting the booming gun market.
“Anti-gunners,” he continued, “have lost another one of their baseless arguments. Millions of Americans bought guns during the first six months of this year, many of them for the first time. Yet with all of those new guns in circulation, coupled with an increased demand for concealed carry licenses around the country, the streets have not been awash in blood, as gun banners repeatedly predict.
“Hard facts trump hot air,” Gottlieb concluded. “These people are consistently wrong about our rights. Millions of people bought guns, especially semiautomatic sport-utility rifles that gun grabbers want to ban because they say people aren’t safe with all of those guns in private hands. Well, the people disagree, and so does the data.”
In fact, while gun-control enthusiasts point to accidental shootings or misuse of firearms cases to bolster their claims, numerous studies have shown there are between 600,000 and one million protective uses of firearms by citizens (Northwestern University School of Law, Gary Kleck & Marc Gertz).
“Studies have shown that the incidents of proper use of guns by US citizens far outweigh any abuses or misuses. In my own law enforcement career, must guns used in a crime are illegally obtained. If a suspect is willing to walk into a bank full of people to rob it, I doubt he’d be worried about violating some gun law,” said former NYPD detective Mike Snipes, now the owner of a private security firm.
“This obsession with gun control by politicians and activists has more to do with disarming law-abiding citizens and less to do with fighting crime,” he added.
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Yea, I saw something on this yesterday. The clip I read said nothing of the correlation though.
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Gun Sales Up?
Violent Crime Down?
Hmmmmm...... ;)
The anti's will never admit there is a correlation, as usually hard economic times leads to a crime increase....
Please forward to the Brady Bunch & Mayor Bloomberg...et al,.....
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Yea, I saw something on this yesterday. The clip I read said nothing of the correlation though.
Even if there was no correlation to more guns equals less crime, it still clearly shows that more guns do not make more crime, like they are so fond of believing.
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Even if there was no correlation to more guns equals less crime, it still clearly shows that more guns do not make more crime, like they are so fond of believing.
"Blood in the streets", "Wild West", etc, etc.....
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"Blood in the streets", "Wild West", etc, etc.....
Why use common sense when you've got snappy slogans and libels you can throw around without consequence?
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Waiting for TAB's reply, he's always the "fly in the vaseline" when these stats are posted.... ;)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the National Association of Chiefs of Police is not exactly a Second Amendment friendly group is it! Adds creditability to the survey if it was commisioned by an group of anti's ;D Even if the group is neutral to pro 2A, it wasn't NRA, so that helps our efforts as well.
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This from the FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/table_2.html
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2009prelimsem/table_3.html
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Gun sales up.......murder rate down. :o
Well, kiss my sister's black cat's ass. :o
(what movie was that from?)
Waiting for TAB's reply, he's always the "fly sand in the vaseline" when these stats are posted.... ;)
Edited for accuracy. ;D ;D ;D
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what about the non violent crimes?
with the econ in the dumps theft is always going to go up.
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what about the non violent crimes?
with the econ in the dumps theft is always going to go up.
You can always find the silver lining cant ya
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no I just don't try to relate numbers that have no relation.
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no I just don't try to relate numbers that have no relation.
Correction..... You continually try to rationalize your preconceived notion and ignore the facts as they are presented to you..... With all due respect. ;)
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other then lott( who admit he was wrong) show me a creditable study that proves guns have any effect on crime stats.
I really wish there was a study that said more guns = less crime, but there isn't one.
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other then lott( who admit he was wrong) show me a creditable study that proves guns have any effect on crime stats.
I really wish there was a study that said more guns = less crime, but there isn't one.
Oh, so you can hear me with your fingers in your ears!
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arguing stats on gun control is like arguing about the bible, no one knows what really happend, all we have is some one writing about it things years after they happend.
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arguing stats on gun control is like arguing about the bible, no one knows what really happend, all we have is some one writing about it things years after they happend.
TAB, pull your head out and listen for a moment. Nobody is saying that this set of statistics shows that more guns=less crime. All it's saying is that despite what the anti's would have people believe, more guns do NOT equal MORE violent crime. It doesn't address property crimes, only murder...VIOLENT crime. You know, the "wild west streets running red with blood" BS that the Brady Bunch are always saying.
So please, address the comments made instead of regurgitating your same old crap. If you need help with the big words, please ask.
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Law Enforcement deaths up 26% this year by gun fire :(
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/
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TAB, pull your head out and listen for a moment. Nobody is saying that this set of statistics shows that more guns=less crime. All it's saying is that despite what the anti's would have people believe, more guns do NOT equal MORE violent crime. It doesn't address property crimes, only murder...VIOLENT crime. You know, the "wild west streets running red with blood" BS that the Brady Bunch are always saying.
So please, address the comments made instead of regurgitating your same old crap. If you need help with the big words, please ask.
many times people thump that very idea like it was a bibble. hell people that posted in this thread, did everything but say "more guns = less crime"
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Lets see, over the past year gun sales have set records, during the same time frame ALL types of violent crime listed by the FBI have dropped, (Just for TAB's enlightenment I will mention that theft IS NOT considered a VIOLENT crime, therefore it is irrelevant to this topic )
Item #2 Generally speaking, cities with stricter gun control laws have HIGHER rates of VIOLENT crime.
Item #3 Every country that has outlawed guns has seen their violent crime rates more than double, and stay at the increased levels.
TAB, you are just whistling past the graveyard dude.
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other then lott( who admit he was wrong)
Uhm, okay, I admit it - I don't follow these things as closely as I probably ought to, but when did Lott make this admission? References?
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many years ago, I've posted in it the past, google is your friend.
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other then lott( who admit he was wrong) show me a creditable study that proves guns have any effect on crime stats.
I really wish there was a study that said more guns = less crime, but there isn't one.
It does show almost definitively that at least more guns do not equal more crime.
Newspapers and the news and even American Rifleman's Armed Citizen section detail facts about guns meaning less crime all the time. Every time that they report that a violent criminal is killed by a gun owner, that ends their career in crime. Less crime! Black and white!
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show us the studys that prove that statement.
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TAB, Have you been drinking ? I defy YOU to cite one single instance where some one killed while commiting one crime has gone on to commit others.
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TAB, Have you been drinking ? I defy YOU to cite one single instance where some one killed while commiting one crime has gone on to commit others.
Ted kenndy, his legacy commits crimes all the time.
Brady, ok hes not dead, but his legacy is crimal.
:P
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Don't blame Jim, he's just a prop Sarah rolls out to take attention off her BS.
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Don't blame Jim, he's just a prop republican Sarah rolls out to take attention off her BS.
fixed
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Come to think of it, he got shot almost 30 years ago, has any one checked him for a pulse lately ?
That old bat Sarah might have had him stuffed years ago.
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Come to think of it, he got shot almost 30 years ago, has any one checked him for a pulse lately ?
That old bat Sarah might have had him stuffed years ago.
She just keeps greasin' the wheels and rollin' him out. ;D