The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on December 26, 2009, 10:09:30 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/user/billt460#p/a/f/0/HLka4GoUbLo
http://www.youtube.com/user/billt460#p/a/f/1/S7YAN9--3MA
In 1975 a unpainted, stock F-15 "Streak Eagle" smashed a total of 8 time to climb records up to over 100,000 feet that still stand to this day. Not even the F-22 Raptor can match it's climb rate. It's faster to 50,000 ft. than the Saturn V rocket that took us to the Moon! Bill T.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1GE_qKsZMs
http://www.bestrussiantour.com/jet_flights/edge_space_mig31_fighter_jet
If your wallet is thick enough, you can do something similar in a Mig 25 or a Mig 31. I read somewhere the cost is around $40,000.00 US.
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Amazing airplane.
It still boggles my mind that a 15-ton aircraft (empty) can climb 90 degrees and still accelerate through the speed of sound.. Truly amazing.
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I can't say I remember that as I'm a little young for that particular speed flight, but I spent the first few years of the 90's as a avionics tech on the F15 it was and is a great airplane! But I have to say the F22 has it beat in the Air - Air fight hands down. Though neither of them is my favorite aircraft! I like the A10 Thunderbolt!!!! Theirs just something about flying low and slow, with a 30mm Cannon shooting up your enemy at will! ;D 8)
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One thing that I found amazing was the F-15 lifted off from a dead stop in 400 feet, or a little over 7 plane lengths! If you noticed they had it fastened to the runway until the pilot got both burners lit, and up to full thrust. There is no way the brakes could hold it with the thrust to weight ratio it has. And the thing to remember is this is 38 year old technology, and to this day nothing can out climb it! Bill T.
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I can't say I remember that as I'm a little young for that particular speed flight, but I spent the first few years of the 90's as a avionics tech on the F15 it was and is a great airplane! But I have to say the F22 has it beat in the Air - Air fight hands down. Though neither of them is my favorite aircraft! I like the A10 Thunderbolt!!!! Theirs just something about flying low and slow, with a 30mm Cannon shooting up your enemy at will! ;D 8)
Agreed on the wart hog, they are just plain cool, and frankly more useful today than either the F-15 or F-22. The Taliban don't have much of an aiforce (not counting American Airlines :-\) and nothing the Russians or Chinese can put in air can touch the new F-15s with improved avionics. I'm a big fan of the " better to have and not need" school of thought, but one does have to wonder how many $100 millon air superiority fighters we need vs a bettter battle rifle for the Marines.
FQ13
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how many $100 millon air superiority fighters we need vs a bettter battle rifle for the Marines.
FQ13
Especially now with the price of AK-47's dropping to under $400.00 in many areas. ;D Bill T.
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Especially now with the price of AK-47's dropping to under $400.00 in many areas. ;D Bill T.
And that is the truth. Buy the license, let an American company improve it, and you're in the field in 12 months at well under $1k per unit. Yet pride won't let us do it, and that's all it is, pride.
FQ13
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Especially now with the price of AK-47's dropping to under $400.00 in many areas. ;D Bill T.
Keep dreaming billt and FQ! No matter how much or how little the cost might be the Marines aint never going to get AK's!!!! :-X
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I just heard the cost of one soldier for one year in Afghanistan is $1,000,000.00 (one million dollars). How can that be? That is $2,379.72 A DAY!
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I just heard the cost of one soldier for one year in Afghanistan is $1,000,000.00 (one million dollars). How can that be? That is $2,379.72 A DAY!
I know I'm not getting paid all that! >:( Though I should be! ;D :P
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I'm going back on Active duty in Jan., but my paycheck will only be a little over 5k a month! So where's the rest going?
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I'm going back on Active duty in Jan., but my paycheck will only be a little over 5k a month! So where's the rest going?
Beans, boots and bullets, plus transport, plus intel support, plus medical, plus airsupport plus........
FQ13
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Beans, boots and bullets, plus transport, plus intel support, plus medical, plus airsupport plus........
FQ13
Yea Yea that's what they always say! :-X
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http://www.gunreports.com/news/ammo/Winchester-ICE-Homeland-Security-ICE_1460-1.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081006195110AAn2yk6
So the Dept. Of Homeland Security orders 200,000,000 (read TWO HUNDRED MILLION) rounds of .40 caliber ammunition. As of 2007 they employ about 209,000 people. How many of those 209,000 carry weapons? I'll bet it's less than 10% if that. 10% of 209,000 is just under 21,000 armed employees. So 200,000,000 rounds divided by 21,000 armed employees equates to 9,523 rounds per employee! Has anyone in this organization EVER FIRED A SHOT IN ANGER? This is insanity. And you can bet Winchester didn't give this guys Cabela's pricing on this stuff. Bill T.
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http://www.gunreports.com/news/ammo/Winchester-ICE-Homeland-Security-ICE_1460-1.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081006195110AAn2yk6
So the Dept. Of Homeland Security orders 200,000,000 (read TWO HUNDRED MILLION) rounds of .40 caliber ammunition. As of 2007 they employ about 209,000 people. How many of those 209,000 carry weapons? I'll bet it's less than 10% if that. 10% of 209,000 is just under 21,000 armed employees. So 200,000,000 rounds divided by 21,000 armed employees equates to 9,523 rounds per employee! Has anyone in this organization EVER FIRED A SHOT IN ANGER? This is insanity. And you can bet Winchester didn't give this guys Cabela's pricing on this stuff. Bill T.
The Coast Guard is under the Dept. of Homeland inSecurity!
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The Coast Guard is under the Dept. of Homeland inSecurity!
their about 36k strong I think
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Guns R us, They are not b/sing you, The US military has the longest logistics tail in the world, some thing like 10:1, it not only includes the supply people packing the gear that gets shipped over, but the clerk who handles the paperwork, even the PAO, and the unit Family liaison and recruiters are included in the estimate.
Billt, I would bet that they paid less than Cabela's (Cheaper by the dozen million ;D ) and agreed to spread the order out over a period of time, also, while no one may have actually needed to fire a shot in anger there ARE training requirements to be met that require a certain number of rounds.
I know when I was in the Marines carter kept the military on such a short budget that if you did not pass your annual rifle qual. there was not enough ammo in the budget for a requal. you had to wait till the following year. Part of that 200 million rounds could be planning hoarding for a rainy day.
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Guns R us, They are not b/sing you, The US military has the longest logistics tail in the world, some thing like 10:1, it not only includes the supply people packing the gear that gets shipped over, but the clerk who handles the paperwork, even the PAO, and the unit Family liaison and recruiters are included in the estimate.
Billt, I would bet that they paid less than Cabela's (Cheaper by the dozen million ;D ) and agreed to spread the order out over a period of time, also, while no one may have actually needed to fire a shot in anger there ARE training requirements to be met that require a certain number of rounds.
I know when I was in the Marines carter kept the military on such a short budget that if you did not pass your annual rifle qual. there was not enough ammo in the budget for a requal. you had to wait till the following year. Part of that 200 million rounds could be planning hoarding for a rainy day.
Well I don't know about the DHOS but in the Air Force we shoot everything we get. The bean counters keep track and if you don't shoot it this year then you will get less next year!
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Not that it's a Hugh problem for us, we don't get much to start with!!! :(
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The maximum cartridge overall length of a .40 S&W round is 1.135". Times two hundred million is 3,582.7 MILES LAID END TO END! Stacked on top of each other with a cartridge diameter of .423" would extend 1,335.2 MILES HIGH! My mother always told me my mind was a storehouse for useless information. ;D Bill T.
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This thread has got to get the super hi jack award of the year! Bill T.
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The maximum cartridge overall length of a .40 S&W round is 1.135". Times two hundred million is 3,582.7 MILES LAID END TO END! Stacked on top of each other with a cartridge diameter of .423" would extend 1,335.2 MILES HIGH! My mother always told me my mind was a storehouse for useless information. ;D Bill T.
She was and is right as always (Mothers always are) ;)
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This thread has got to get the super hi jack award of the year! Bill T.
Well F15's don't have a lot todo with guns anyhow! :P
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Well I don't know about the DHOS but in the Air Force we shoot everything we get. The bean counters keep track and if you don't shoot it this year then you will get less next year!
I live 4 miles from Luke Air Force Base. They have the largest F-16 fighter wing in the world. The last 2 or 3 days of the month everything is up flying, with full afterburner takeoffs no less. Got to get rid of that monthly fuel allotment, don't ya' know. "Use it or lose it". And we're supposed to drive a Prius????? Bill T.
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I just heard the cost of one soldier for one year in Afghanistan is $1,000,000.00 (one million dollars). How can that be? That is $2,379.72 A DAY!
I'd like to see a compassison to how much it cost to keep one soldier or any military member for one year stationed anywhere for one year. and exactly what they include in those cost.
I
know that it does not cost my employer nearly that much to employ me, but if you start adding in the cost of the facility, operating cost, material cost, and they cost of management, it may approach that.
What's it cost to keep one municipal fireman employeed for one year stationed one year at a fire station? Do you include the cost of the fire truck and station, management, the municipal government that oversees the fire department. If you hire one less firefighter, do you save $1,000,000 a year? Facts and figure can be interpreted many ways and any comparisons and statements need to have the methodoloy explained to have a comprhensive understanding of the the true cost
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I live 4 miles from Luke Air Force Base. They have the largest F-16 fighter wing in the world. The last 2 or 3 days of the month everything is up flying, with full afterburner takeoffs no less. Got to get rid of that monthly fuel allotment, don't ya' know. "Use it or lose it". And we're supposed to drive a Prius????? Bill T.
Would that be off the end of the runway??? Jet noise is the sound of Freedom! And the end of the month thing is different than the end of the year. The end of the month is important for the fighter jocks because if they make their sortie rate for the month they get a day off! And I think they do the full Afterburner thing to boost up their EGO!!! ;) As if it were necessary! :D
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I live 4 miles from Luke Air Force Base. They have the largest F-16 fighter wing in the world. The last 2 or 3 days of the month everything is up flying, with full afterburner takeoffs no less. Got to get rid of that monthly fuel allotment, don't ya' know. "Use it or lose it". And we're supposed to drive a Prius????? Bill T.
Not only that but the reservists and staff Officers have to get their flight time in to maintain their flight status (and pay )
From Pathfinder "What's it cost to keep one municipal fireman employeed for one year stationed one year at a fire station? Do you include the cost of the fire truck and station, management, the municipal government that oversees the fire department. If you hire one less firefighter, do you save $1,000,000 a year? Facts and figure can be interpreted many ways and any comparisons and statements need to have the methodoloy explained to have a comprhensive understanding of the the true cost"
The cost of the truck and building would be figured in on the basis of depreciated value this kind of calculation is really pretty complicated, since you have to figure in everything from the cost of his boots to the adjusted portion of the cost of the environmental impact study of the station alarm.
Would that be off the end of the runway??? Jet noise is the sound of Freedom! And the end of the month thing is different than the end of the year. The end of the month is important for the fighter jocks because if they make their sortie rate for the month they get a day off! And I think they do the full Afterburner thing to boost up their EGO!!! ;) As if it were necessary! :D
There are no live "Second best" fighter pilots, just ask them ;D
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I'd like to see a compassison to how much it cost to keep one soldier or any military member for one year stationed anywhere for one year. and exactly what they include in those cost.
I
know that it does not cost my employer nearly that much to employ me, but if you start adding in the cost of the facility, operating cost, material cost, and they cost of management, it may approach that.
What's it cost to keep one municipal fireman employeed for one year stationed one year at a fire station? Do you include the cost of the fire truck and station, management, the municipal government that oversees the fire department. If you hire one less firefighter, do you save $1,000,000 a year? Facts and figure can be interpreted many ways and any comparisons and statements need to have the methodoloy explained to have a comprhensive understanding of the the true cost
Look at it this way. An aicraft carrier has maybe a 5,000 person crew to support maybe 75 fighters. How many more to protect that carrier? How many more to supply them, recruit them and train them and take care of them and their families after they retire? Its an extreme example, but illustrative.
FQ13
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Would that be off the end of the runway??? Jet noise is the sound of Freedom! And the end of the month thing is different than the end of the year. The end of the month is important for the fighter jocks because if they make their sortie rate for the month they get a day off! And I think they do the full Afterburner thing to boost up their EGO!!! ;) As if it were necessary! :D
They used to come over the house with the burner lit. It would rattle my Arcadia sliding glass door to the point of almost breaking! My Golden Retreiver was so scared he ran to me crying! They would be in a high G bank with vapor coming off the top of the wings. Now they only do that during "Luke Days". It's a really nice free air show they put on every year. Bill T.
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Not only that but the reservists and staff Officers have to get their flight time in to maintain their flight status (and pay )
From Pathfinder "What's it cost to keep one municipal fireman employeed for one year stationed one year at a fire station? Do you include the cost of the fire truck and station, management, the municipal government that oversees the fire department. If you hire one less firefighter, do you save $1,000,000 a year? Facts and figure can be interpreted many ways and any comparisons and statements need to have the methodoloy explained to have a comprhensive understanding of the the true cost"
The cost of the truck and building would be figured in on the basis of depreciated value this kind of calculation is really pretty complicated, since you have to figure in everything from the cost of his boots to the adjusted portion of the cost of the environmental impact study of the station alarm.
There are no live "Second best" fighter pilots, just ask them ;D
Yea I know my Daddy was acutally a fighter pilot. He flew the F111 for over 20 years. So I got a lot of experience with them! ;)
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Was he ever stationed up here at Pease ? If he was I may very well have watched him "work" ;D
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Tell ya' what. I'll make an attempt to get us **slightly** back on target.
I'm a private pilot...usually I fly these
(http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/production/cessna172.jpg)
For my 30th birthday, my wife got me a flight on the Aluminum Overcast
(http://www.b17.org/images/homecells/homepage_cell1-4.jpg)
For my 40th birthday, she got me a training flight (~ 60 minutes) in an L39 Albatross. Once the trainer knew I was a pilot and made sure I could handle a stick, he took me through a few maneuvers, made sure I knew the right airspeeds (e.g., Vne, Vs, Vx, etc) and then let me go. Too fun...
This thing just has a single, 3700 lb thrust engine and, while light, was easy to fly and had great (for me) power characteristics. I can't even imaging strapping onto a big old Eagle with twin 30K lb thrust engines (w/ afterburner...I think they are around 18K without).
Yahooo!
(http://l39.com/pictures/N995X.jpg)
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There are no live "Second best" fighter pilots, just ask them
Q: What's the difference between a fighter pilot and God?
A: God doesn't think he is a fighter pilot.
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Was he ever stationed up here at Pease ? If he was I may very well have watched him "work" ;D
No Daddy flew the F model and later the A, D, & G models in TAC & ACC but never SAC with the FB111.
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Q: What's the difference between a fighter pilot and God?
A: God doesn't think he is a fighter pilot.
Correction: God know's he's not a fighter pilot! The Fighter Pilot will never figure out he's not God!! ;)
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Ok! That does it! The "I Hate kilopapparomeo" thread is a go. :D :D :D
FQ13
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kilopapparomeo,
My dad was a pilot. I used to fly with him when I was a kid. He had a fellow pilot and friend who had a Stearman he used to take me up in. Damn that was fun! It used to amaze me how he could barrel roll with 1 G all the way around. I would just sit there and watch the horizon go around. Later on he flew a Rockwell Jet Commander for a big contractor in Houston, Texas. I miss flying, and have often thought about getting my private license. Glendale Municipal Air port is just 2 miles from me, and the pattern is right over my house. They're up all weekend. What does a new Cessna 150 run these days? I heard it was around $150,000.00 Bill T.
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Bill T have you ever read The Cannibal Queen by Steven Coonts? Great book about flying across American in a Stearman!
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kilopapparomeo,
My dad was a pilot. I used to fly with him when I was a kid. He had a fellow pilot and friend who had a Stearman he used to take me up in. Damn that was fun! It used to amaze me how he could barrel roll with 1 G all the way around. I would just sit there and watch the horizon go around. Later on he flew a Rockwell Jet Commander for a big contractor in Houston, Texas. I miss flying, and have often thought about getting my private license. Glendale Municipal Air port is just 2 miles from me, and the pattern is right over my house. They're up all weekend. What does a new Cessna 150 run these days? I heard it was around $150,000.00 Bill T.
Actually, renting them is pretty cheap. I dated a doctor with a pilots license about a year ago. Here in Fl. you could rent a cessna for $350 a day plus fuel, insurance and whatever landing fee your destination charged in the off season. Not cheap, but not $150k either, plus you don't have to maintain it.
FQ13
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Planes are so costly to maintain, insure, and keep in place, renting is pretty much the way to go unless you fly over 500 hours a year. Even then you are lucky to break even. Insurance costs have driven the private aviation market into the same place as a doctors practice. Almost too costly to bother with anymore. Damn shame. Bill T.
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Great video, I'm surprised they had any fuel left to fly back and land. Full afterburners, full throttle, burns hundreds of pounds of fuel almost every few seconds...
I read Richard Bach books about flying from field to field across America back in the day in old biplanes. Very detail oriented, and a great story of sleeping under the wings in a sleeping bag in corn fields in the Midwest.
Wonder if the SR-71 records, (some are still classified), will ever be broken?
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Wonder if the SR-71 records, (some are still classified), will ever be broken?
Nope, they won't be. There is no need for it with satellites, and a fighter/interceptor that takes a whole state to turn around in? A plane that leaks fuel until G-forces seal the engine? Not a chance. My dad was one of the design engineers on the plane. When he sees the published "records" he smiles and mutters "bullshit". Even after all these years, when the last SR-71 is in the AF museum in Dayton, when asked what the numbers are he still says "classified". You know that bird could move. ;)
FQ13
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Nope, they won't be. There is no need for it with satellites, and a fighter/interceptor that takes a whole state to turn around in? A plane that leaks fuel until G-forces seal the engine? Not a chance. My dad was one of the design engineers on the plane. When he sees the published "records" he smiles and mutters "bullshit". Even after all these years, when the last SR-71 is in the AF museum in Dayton, when asked what the numbers are he still says "classified". You know that bird could move. ;)
FQ13
Ask your Dad - it was not G-forces and they didn't seal the "engines". It was the heat created by the plane moving through the air at "classified" speeds and the heat sealed the fuel tanks.
Nice shot, Oswald! ;D
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Great video, I'm surprised they had any fuel left to fly back and land. Full afterburners, full throttle, burns hundreds of pounds of fuel almost every few seconds...
I read Richard Bach books about flying from field to field across America back in the day in old biplanes. Very detail oriented, and a great story of sleeping under the wings in a sleeping bag in corn fields in the Midwest.
Wonder if the SR-71 records, (some are still classified), will ever be broken?
The First one was great," Nothing by Chance", the last of the Barnstormers, a great read for ANY ONE with an interest in aviation.
did you ever read "The Good Shepherd" also by Bach ?
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Ask your Dad - it was not G-forces and they didn't seal the "engines". It was the heat created by the plane moving through the air at "classified" speeds and the heat sealed the fuel tanks.
Nice shot, Oswald! ;D
Ain't friction a b!tch? ;D
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I read that the leading edge of the wings on the SR-71 got up to 4,000 degrees from air friction. Then when it lands the pilot has to sit there an hour for it to cool off before he can get out. If they flew from NY to LA they would cross the time zones so fast they would get there two hours before they left. Now that's fast!!!
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Ask your Dad - it was not G-forces and they didn't seal the "engines". It was the heat created by the plane moving through the air at "classified" speeds and the heat sealed the fuel tanks.
Nice shot, Oswald! ;D
Dude, I'm a political scientist, not an engineer. All I know is that it leaked like sieve on the runway, but not in the air. My dad could tell you why (in excruciating detail, believe me). Me, I don't care how it worked, just that it worked. If you want to discuss Locke or Marx or what happened in the election of 1896, I'm your guy. If you want to know about jet engines, call someone else. ;)
FQ13
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The Blackbird grew a bit when it heated up. I think it was 3-4" expansion, but it was a long time ago that I heard of it. The heat made everything swell up and quit leaking.
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http://www.sr-71.org/blackbird/
Sorry about the 'hi-jack', Bill...... ;D
The Blackbird crossed the United States in 1990 at a record speed of 2,124 mph.
There are three variations of the Blackbird: the A-12, YF-12, and SR-71.
Blackbird missions over North Vietnam were the fastest ever flown in combat.
At high speeds and altitudes, friction causes the metal skin of the Blackbird to heat up to 400 degrees Fahrenheit.
The pressure suits worn by the crew are identical to those worn by astronauts on space shuttle missions.
The SR-71's engines run on JP7 fuel, which is a special low-volatility fuel. A fleet of modified KC-135Q tankers keep the Blackbird in the air.
The Blackbird's tires are filled with nitrogen and impregnated with powdered aluminum to enable them to withstand heat.
The J58 engines operate as ordinary jets at low speeds, switching to become ramjets at higher speeds above 2,000 m.p.h.
The nose contains reconnaissance sensors. The entire unit is detachable so that different sensor combinations can be quickly fitted.
To withstand the friction-generated heat at Mach 3, over 90 percent of the Blackbird's airframe is made of titanium alloy.
There are four compartments in the fuselage that can house panoramic, long-range and infrared cameras, electronic intelligence sensors and
side-looking radars.
The only other aircraft that approaches the Blackbird's speed is the MiG-25 Foxbat, and it can only sustain Mach 3 for a few minutes, which
is compared to the five to eight hour missions that are regularly flown by the SR-71. The Concorde is the only other aircraft that can
sustain supersonic flight for many hours at a time.
Back when the SR-71 was first introduced, a pilot could set off from one of its three main bases and get photography of any part of the surface of
the earth within a six-hour time period.
The SR-71 is one of the first examples of the use of stealth technology.
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I am fairly certain that the Soviets beat the F-15's climb records using a Flanker in the late 1980's.
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To allow for thermal expansion at the high operational temperatures the fuselage panels were manufactured to fit only loosely on the ground. Proper alignment was only achieved when the airframe heated due to air resistance at high speeds, causing the airframe to expand several inches. Because of this, and the lack of a fuel sealing system that could handle the thermal expansion of the airframe at extreme temperatures, the aircraft would leak JP-7 jet fuel onto the runway before it took off. The aircraft would quickly make a short sprint, meant to warm up the airframe, and was then refueled in the air before departing on its mission. Cooling was carried out by cycling fuel behind the titanium surfaces at the front of the wings (chines). On landing after a mission the canopy temperature was over 300 °C (572 °F), too hot to approach. Non-fibrous asbestos with high heat tolerance was used in high-temperature areas.[15]
[edit] Stealth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71_Blackbird
God Bless those "Skunk Works", my father in law, now 84 was with the Westinghouse Division, after the Army, that helped develop internal gyroscopes in ICBM's in essence creating real time ground mapping radar. Predecessor to the Smart Bomb, and GPS.
The SR-71 is only posted to the public at Mach 3.2, although, Mach 5 was rumored, maybe that's where "Speed Racer" got the name for his car....
However, I asked him about Area 51, several times, and he gets a funny sheepish grin on his face, and says "There's nuthin out there but desert"
His generation did things, and knows things they will take to the grave. The Original Homeland Security.
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His generation did things, and knows things they will take to the grave. The Original Homeland Security.
My neighbor's dad (long-time family friend) worked as an engineer in the aerospace industry in the 60's on some developmental things for both NASA and the military. Very intelligent man and keen conversationalist. He said there were a lot of top secret things he was involved with to the point that he got tired of the protocols and gave it up to come home and run the family dairy operation (not a bad move, he ain't hurting for money).
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Amazing how the 'old school' pen and paper guys can't be bested by near automated computerized design. F-15 is the baddest boy on the playground. No wonder no body sends their birds up to play with them. :'( Thankfully we got the Strike Eagle for that.
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His generation did things, and knows things they will take to the grave. The Original Homeland Security. QUOTH TW.
Thats my dad. A slide rule, short sleeved dress shirt with a tie, and chastity goggles Pratt and Whitney engineer. He and his colleagues did amazing things, and even as they enter their 80s, and the intel value is beyond obsolete, they still won't tell their kids jack sh@t (as they shouldn't, ours is idle curiosity, theirs is an oath given). They will laugh over something at a party and clam up when someone asks them to explain an inside joke. I wish my generation had that degree of patriotism. Those nerds who came of age in the fifties and sixties, armed with slide rules and pocket protectors, did amazing things for this country. I hope someday they get the credit they deserve.
FQ13
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I am fairly certain that the Soviets beat the F-15's climb records using a Flanker in the late 1980's.
Could be but the F-15 is undefeated in air combat with three air forces, (US, IMF, Roayal Saudi) I think the tally is better than 100-0.
Even a Saudi got two kills on Mig 29's on one sortie. A SAUDI!!!!
FQ13 + 1 Our fathers did some outstanding feats of engineering.
A friend sold half interest in his 172 to a former Thunderbird pilot. They call it an F-172 now ;D
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When Melanie and I lived in Lake Havasu City we had a neighbor, friend who retired after 40 years working at the Lockheed Skunk Works. He gave me 3 flags with certificates signed by the pilots that were flown on the SR-71 above 80,000 FT., and above Mach 3 (2,000 MPH+). I had all of it framed and in my computer room. He gave Mel a beautiful silver silk jacket with the SR-71 embroidered on the back. He died of cancer in 2000. He was a "one of a kind" guy.
He once told me a story of how back in the 50's Lockheed was in trouble, and not doing well. Kelly Johnson asked him and several others to work without a paycheck for several weeks, when he promised he would pay all of them back. Most left. He, and several others stayed. Lockheed recovered, and went on to enjoy prosperous times. Those that stayed were nicknamed "The Untouchables". Kelly Johnson saw to it their careers at Lockheed were never troubled by anything, or anyone. They were people you "just didn't mess with". What a time to be working in aviation! Bill T.
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There really ISN'T any thing at Area 51 (any more) the facility was old and visible from public land.
According to an article in Aviation Week a few years back all the "Skunk Works" type stuff has been moved to Pawnee Dry Lake where they have a modern, more private facility.
I don't know if the rest of you realize this, but the VAST majority of the technical intelligence the former KGB collected came from open sources such as trade journals. Each Embassy had at least one guy who did nothing but read local papers and technical Journals.Revell Model company offered a scale model of the F117 Night Hawk as far back s the Late 70's early 80's, they also offered a model of the Seashadow about 10 years before the navy admitted it existed.
Kelly Johnson was one of the Greats, he was the brains behind the P38 lightning.
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from TomB:
There really ISN'T any thing at Area 51 (any more) the facility was old and visible from public land.
;)
Try getting through the gates for a close up tour.....
They still run you out at gunpoint with complete Federal Authority to Shoot To Kill any and all incursions to said property...
Even if (according to my Father-In -Law), it's just desert......
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They have to maintain the secrecy to keep out EPA investigators. it is alleged to be one of the worst hazardous waste sites in the country, no one really thought about that sort of thing in the 40's and 50's and later, well, places that don't exist don't have their emissions audited. there was a big lawsuit a few years ago former workers can't get settlements for work related cancers and asbestos exposure, if it officially doesn't exist then they could not have been using these things, if it doesn't exist then you could not have worked there so even if those chemicals were there you could not have been exposed to them.
A real catch 22
But I have read that in the late 90's when it was being shut down the secure area was EXTENDED, to take in more of the land that over looked it.
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Back in the summer of '91, I did a weeklong trip to Kirtland and Holloman (sp?). While at Kirtland we got to tour a specially outfitted KC-135 that was an airborne laser laboratory. ;) The plane was named Argus. One of the guys there told us that they were flying off the coast of a particular country. They were orbiting back and forth because they carried nuclear/radioactive type of sensors. This country was about to do a test detonation of one of their nuclear bombs or warheads, underground I guess. He said that this country shot a missile at them. Now, I didn't ask specifics, but I am ASSuming that it was a surface to air missile...but who knows... it could have been an air to air missile launched from a fighter jet.
Well, our host went on to say that one of our planes shot the missile down. We were all like :o
So we asked him which plane it was....and before one of us could let him answer, somebody piped up with, "It must have been an F-15??" He goes, "Nope, not fast enough." Since I knew there had been "fighter" prototypes of the SR-71, I asked "Was it a YF-12 or some other version of the SR-71?" His reply was, "NOPE! Still not fast enough."
We were all like this: :o :o :o :o
Enough that I still remember it to this day almost 20 years later.
He never did say which plane it was. :(
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According to an article in Popular Mechanic's back around 01 or "02 the "Aurora" (the replacement for the SR71 ) operates on a "Pulse detonation" engine and is supposed to reach speeds even SR71 pilots think are ridiculous I don't remember specific numbers but it was Sci Fi type stuff. Another thing I remember reading about was "Super cruise" an engine development that allows planes to cruise for extended periods at speeds over mach 1 or 2 that is far more economical in fuel than what we are familiar with.
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There really ISN'T any thing at Area 51 (any more) the facility was old and visible from public land.
According to an article in Aviation Week a few years back all the "Skunk Works" type stuff has been moved to Pawnee Dry Lake where they have a modern, more private facility.
I don't know if the rest of you realize this, but the VAST majority of the technical intelligence the former KGB collected came from open sources such as trade journals. Each Embassy had at least one guy who did nothing but read local papers and technical Journals.Revell Model company offered a scale model of the F117 Night Hawk as far back s the Late 70's early 80's, they also offered a model of the Seashadow about 10 years before the navy admitted it existed.
Kelly Johnson was one of the Greats, he was the brains behind the P38 lightning.
I remember that model, actually had one in the mid 80's I think, but it wasn't quite right to scale. Though it was close.