The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: MLC on December 28, 2009, 08:08:22 PM
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I was talking about training with a friend of mine, and we had an interesting conversation about biting during a self defense scenario.
One opinion:
Biting somebody in a fight, when given the opportunity, is a game changer. The psychological effect of taking a chunk out of somebody with your teeth will shock your opponent. It will take the wind out of their sails, turning the fight in your favor, if not end it immediately.
The other opinion:
Biting is a bad idea. It not only creates the chance of getting infected by whatever the bite victim has, but escalates the fight. The psychological effect will cause your opponent to fight more desperately, pulling any weapons or using any tactics they had been keeping in reserve.
Your thoughts?
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Infection is a valid concern, escalating the fight is not. When the situation degrades to physical violence it's all or nothing there is no holding back if you want to walk away afterward, let your thumb nails grow a LITTLE longer they are good for gauging out eye balls , compared to other body parts, ears are not that firmly attached, they will come off with a hard enough pull.
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There was a time, previous generations that met at the basketball courts after school,...etc,.. where you just beat up eachother.
Rules were, no eye gouging, kicking in the balls, or biting. Fight like a man,.,,,
Well,, all that, in a modern self defense scenario, as an adult, with an unknown BG attacking me in the parking lot of the grocery store as I just want to go home have a beer and dinner and post on the DRTV forum???
ALL BETS ARE OFF!! Can't take that chance anymore. The schoolhouse rules are long gone. Attack me, and every weapon at my disposal is coming into play. Biting, gouging, genitals, knives, CCW pistol, etc,...
It's like well I'll just shoot you in the leg to stop your assault....(won't work). The world isn't nice anymore, and unfortunately, law abiding citizens can't be either. I don't know what to expect if attacked, except my very life or my wife's, son/ daughter, etc,.. may end if I don't do something to STOP THE ASSAULT. Not slow it down, but get the BG THE (insert profanity) OFF ME!!
Do what it takes. It ain't beating up Doug Matthews in 10th grade anymore....(Real Name, real fight, there was no biting back than)....
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I was told once by a wise older gentleman that there are NO rules in a fight except to fight to win with as little damage to yourself as possible and as much to your opponent.
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I was told once by a wise older gentleman that there are NO rules in a fight except to fight to win with as little damage to yourself as possible and as much to your opponent.
Bullseye!
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/general-george-smith-patton-jr.jpg)
It's a history thing,...
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Rules in a fight ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs
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True Story, and Michael may know this guy as he was a prominent and colorful shooter in the old days, 1st name Stan. Went to New York and was attacked coming out of a cab, Stan being the kind of guy he was busted the guy in the chops, Only to find out the blood transfer from his fist to the BG teeth, who was a junkie, landed him Aids.
I used to be a big believer in biting and biting like you mean it, we are built for it, humans can bite hard and rip flesh, now I am for chicken s**t, I'll just shoot your ass. If in a life and death, I would now still try to avoid biting. But that is up to you. Exchange of bodily fluids should be avoided. In a fight that is.
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Rules in a fight ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs
1,2,3, GO!!
;D
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I'm getting too fat and old and have to many responsibilities to fight anymore. I have transcended biting...if I can't avoid the foolishness my thoughts won't be on biting but they will be on ending the silliness... :o
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I'm getting too fat and old and have to many responsibilities to fight anymore. I have transcended biting...if I can't avoid the foolishness my thoughts won't be on biting but they will be on ending the silliness... :o
+1
I have a different set of 'teeth' now than in my youth......and the 'school yard' is different too.
If the time to bite comes now, I'll 'bite' to kill.
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I was told once by a wise older gentleman that there are NO rules in a fight except to fight to win with as little damage to yourself as possible and as much to your opponent.
I agree, if that's the only option..... Bit on!!!!
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If you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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I have taught a number of Women's Assault Prevention courses with a guy who used to teach while he was living in Southern California. At that time, he went to the top Hematologist at UCLA Medical School because of a concern about biting as a defensive tactic leading to the contraction of AIDS. The response was that there was about a 1 in 10,000 chance of contracting AIDS if you bit the end of a person's nose clean off and spat it out, then rinsed at some point relatively quickly. There was a 100% chance, for all practical purposes, of contracting the AIDS Virus if you were successfully forcibly raped and ejaculated into. So, when the stakes are high, the risk is worth it was the lesson that he, I and most of our students take from that.
The jaw and teeth are incredibly strong natural weapons in extreme close quarters.
-RJP
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You can easily crush the bridge of someones nose by biting it. Not only does that have a psychological factor, but physical, disrupts breathing, and blurs vision.
Fair fight. This ain't a fair, a fair is where you ride rides, eat cotton candy and step in monkey poo.
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I'll take my chances when the chips are down that hard. It only takes 2 lbs of pressure to rip off an ear.
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I'll take my chances when the chips are down that hard. It only takes 2 lbs of pressure to rip off an ear.
yep just ask Holyfield that one
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You can jam a thumb up the nostril, fish hook, thumb to eye, and bite fingers off. Yes off.
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Interesting thoughts, all. In the interest of full disclosure, I was the anti-biter. If the chance presents itself, and it's the only option, biting is a valid one. Better to have a 1 in 10,000 chance of getting something that might kill you than a 1 in 1 chance of being killed. Would people remember to not swallow any residuals left in their mouths from spitting out the piece of whatever they just removed from their attacker?
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2172612.ece
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Are you kidding ? bite , tear rip and gouge, There aint no "fair" fight. where did they get you at. Im putting fingers in eyes and Pushing into the brain. Anyone who gets hold of me is in a world of hurt. 8)
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I'm not in any way a tactical defense expert, but I don't think i'd bite, just on the risk of getting infected with anything the BG may have in his blood. HOWEVER, if my German Shepherd happens to be with me when I'm attacked, The first thing someone will get should they attack me is bitten, much harder than I can. ;)
Is biting fighting dirty? YOU BET! and if my life depends on me fighting, then i wouldn't leave it out. If My life/personal safety depends on me winning the fight (And since I ain't a fighter by nature, It would. I'm not the fight-picker of the family. As a side note, it's one of a few reasons I don't do meth or drink Tequila. PPL in my bloodline want to kill someone when those are in the bloodstream.), I'll kick with steel toed boots, poke them in the eye, take a brick upside their head, whatever. God Forbid I ever have to be in a mess like that......... 8)
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Bottom line for me is this. I haven't been in a fight since junior high. I don't plan on getting in one either. I would rather take a load of crap and walk away than the alternative. Pride is cheap, defense lawyers are pricey. But if I am forced to fight (and it will be because I'm forced) I will kick, stomp, bite and gouge. Hell, I will slap and pull hair if it seems effective, and all this is in the service of getting to my gun and getting out the door. It may sound strange for someone on this board to say, but I really don't like violence. I don't like seeing people hurt, and I don't have the stomach to be an EMT or an ER Doc. But the thing is I like violence even less when its directed at me. Thats why I avoid fights, but also why I carry so that if I can't avoid them I can win them. Hell yes I'll bite.
FQ13 who will floss afterwards and pray a rosary ;)
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Sir I don't LIKE violence either, it's like a flat tire, sometimes needs to be done, cold or hot, rain or shine, joyous or sad, hurting or healthy. I take exception here FQ, I don't think most of us are looking for trouble. If we are, then we will find it, and averages say we will be sorry .
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Sir I don't LIKE violence either, it's like a flat tire, sometimes needs to be done, cold or hot, rain or shine, joyous or sad, hurting or healthy. I take exception here FQ, I don't think most of us are looking for trouble. If we are, then we will find it, and averages say we will be sorry .
Operator
If you or anyone else took offense to my post I offer my apolgies. It was not intended to be a slam or a "holier than thou" position, its just my view. Look, maybe little biography is in order. I was (to no ones surprise) a bit of a geek in school. Yet I was also in good shape due to my dads insistance on fishing from a canoe and helping my grandad with his hobby ranch. My dad also insisited on me taking karate (a bastardized version of Shotokan) when I was ten. Long story short. I got picked on, I fought back. My friends (fellow nerds) got picked on, I fought back. By 13, I was tired of it. My parents were tired of it, and I decided to just walk away, break the kid code, and narc on the malefactor and let the teachers deal with him. This simplified my life. When I was ROTC, this feeling was intensified. I was given the idea that America was a nation of producers, not soldiers, our job was simply to be the "gun on the night stand" hopefully never needed, but ready to go ( all credit here goes to Lt. Col. Hamilton). Finally I spent 4 years teaching at a Quaker college. I was warned by the guy, a non-Quaker, that interviewed me that it would be a life changing experience and that you would drink the Kool-aid whether you wanted to or not. He was right. As a politically libertrian/liberal Christian, living in a Quaker environment was a humbling thing. While I will never be a pacifist or oppose the military (hell I carry a gun for a reason), I did gain an appreciation for avoiding serious conflict, if you can do so with your priciples intact. The point is that I never meant to be judgemental in my post. All I wanted to say is that given some random fight that I never asked for, with nothing at stake but pride, I will run rather than fight. But if I can't run, you have a problem, because I will shoot (or in this case bite) your ass before I allow myself to become a victim. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding Operator.
FQ13
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Hey FQ, it's not just "Serious conflict", look at Mohammad Ali.
I think you will find that the majority of us carry to AVOID violence,
Like the guy said, to old for a whooping, to young to die
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Bad thing is when you get into a sticky situation your gun will crap its guts out and then you will resort to what ever it takes to walk away with your life.
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That's why I carry a 1911, when Murphy strikes I can still club them with the slide ;D
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We keep shifting between two types of encounters.
Those that are anti-social...bullies in bar for instance.... this type of encounter can usually be avoided by walking away. Most of the fights we have been in, especially in our youth, were of this type. If you can walk away or safely defuse the situation, there is not need for violence and none should be offered.
The other type is asocial. This is the the encounter we go armed to defend against. This is with the person who you cannot turn your back on without extreme risk. When you know you are in this type of encounter, violence is likely the only way out if the bad guy has decided you can be had. This is a fight for your life and there is no wrong attack. You will only need to bite in this encounter if you could not draw and shoot quick enough to end it that way.
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Stay on topic guys:
Biting for personal Defense? Yes or no
If yes: When/Why?
If no: Why?.
-RJP
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Yes on biting. Shock value for one thing, my survival as paramount the other.
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yes, you can do alot of damage with very little risk. Its not a "goto" thing, but as a last ditch thing, I am going to a chunk out of you.
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yes to biting, but, you or they need more in the tool box. The bite is not going to end the fight most of the time, rather escalate it to an ultra violent level.
The most important part of the bite: Grappling is key, GRAB THE M-F'er for leverage which helps to damping the effects of their blows and mentality of the attacker form predator to pray!
If or when training to bite, which is the first defensive strike, multiple strikes are key. Train to eye gouge, eye rakes/pluck, soft-tissue scratching, ears tares/taking ownership of, or thumb strikes to the orbital socket are great additions while engaged in the biting process.
Rarely thought or taught of is the next step of the confrontation, Immediately upon release of Grapple partially and Bite fully, complete the action of spitting fluid or body parts at attackers face (let 'em see the follies of their ways) while quickly delivering in the same movement the headbutt strikes, larynges strikes, forearm strikes, groin strikes or combo strikes of like. Notice all strikes mentioned are plural and should be trained as such.
Follow this with your exiting strikes to the hips, knees or ankles of the attacker whither standing or downed. Redundancy is key in the training.
If you have the common sense to prep with OC and this is the first chance to use it, due to ambush,then training to spray a downed rapist/felon (AND TRAIN TO USE ALL OF IT!) is a must! Never let an adversary catch you twice.
Biting is a good tool, but its like owning a gun, without proper training, luck is the reason you make it home. Those whom are skilled seem to be very lucky.
As I am a father of girls, this seems to be necessary points of training for young woman. When they hit teens and develop the young male followers whom are in "heat", my girls will be trained to do this if attacked physically or sexually.
tex
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yes to biting, but, you or they need more in the tool box. The bite is not going to end the fight most of the time, rather escalate it to an ultra violent level.
The most important part of the bite: Grappling is key, GRAB THE M-F'er for leverage which helps to damping the effects of their blows and mentality of the attacker form predator to pray!
If or when training to bite, which is the first defensive strike, multiple strikes are key. Train to eye gouge, eye rakes/pluck, soft-tissue scratching, ears tares/taking ownership of, or thumb strikes to the orbital socket are great additions while engaged in the biting process.
Rarely thought or taught of is the next step of the confrontation, Immediately upon release of Grapple partially and Bite fully, complete the action of spitting fluid or body parts at attackers face (let 'em see the follies of their ways) while quickly delivering in the same movement the headbutt strikes, larynges strikes, forearm strikes, groin strikes or combo strikes of like. Notice all strikes mentioned are plural and should be trained as such.
Follow this with your exiting strikes to the hips, knees or ankles of the attacker whither standing or downed. Redundancy is key in the training.
If you have the common sense to prep with OC and this is the first chance to use it, due to ambush,then training to spray a downed rapist/felon (AND TRAIN TO USE ALL OF IT!) is a must! Never let an adversary catch you twice.
Biting is a good tool, but its like owning a gun, without proper training, luck is the reason you make it home. Those whom are skilled seem to be very lucky.
As I am a father of girls, this seems to be necessary points of training for young woman. When they hit teens and develop the young male followers whom are in "heat", my girls will be trained to do this if attacked physically or sexually.
tex
Dude
Just email this post to their prospective boy friends. Most won't show up for the first date and the ones who do are either idiots or keepers. ;D
FQ13
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Hmmmmm? Maybe DRTV could make up a shirt with the post on the breast for me along with a pic of Mike, Mike and Rob on the back giving the 'what are you looking at' Stare and subtitled "we got her back"
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Now there's a T-shirt idea I like ;D
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Unless the US MARINES have changed they taught us to FIGHT....not box....the idea being to defeat the other side.
Why not take a bite out of crime? Makes ID of the body easy.
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Especially if you have particularly crooked teeth. ;D