The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: TAB on December 29, 2009, 02:43:13 AM
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I've been thinking about things alot latly. there has been about 60k companys gone under in CA.
I've made up my mind. 12/31/09 will be my last day as a contractor. This year has been very hard for me, between people bouncing checks and disappearing subs/ generals... I'm sick of busting my ass and having to pay to do it. I have a bond and insurance payment due on the 1st and I don't have the money to pay them. At the start of this year, I had about 65k in the bank, now I'm about 17k in the hole. Some of that is my fault for trying to keep people employed, some is me getting burned on deals and some is do to the bad econ...I'm not going to sell my tools, but my 1 ton truck and dump trailer will be going up for sale. I'm not sure what I'm going to do for work, but even a min wage job would leave me with something at the end of the year, rather then a debt. :'(
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Ouch TAB. That sucks. Good luck on what ever the future holds. Wish I hadn't of bought a boat this year I'd be interested in giving the Truck and Trailer a good home but not right now. I'm sure that like everyone around here if you need anything just give a shout out.
J
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wow that sux the big one,
best of luck with the future mate
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You can always be one of those house husbands, or you could bail on California and move to a state who's government doesn't hate you.
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TAB, sorry to hear of your plight. It sounds as if you care very much about the people who work for you, but unfortunately not everyone does. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers during this time of transition and send out hope for the new year.
God Bless,
Richard
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That is indeed bad news TAB, I hope the new year brings new found opportunity and ability to pull yourself back up on top again.
Best wishes mate!
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Tab, I am sorry to hear that. To give up on a dream, especially one you have invested so much into, is a tough thing to have to do.
Best of luck on finding something (greeter ar Wal-Mart? ;D ) that helps you pay the bills and but (gun) goodies.
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Tab,
Sorry to hear that you have to give up. I have mixed emotions on the subject and mixed results, as I was a contractor for years, then left it to work in engineering and architecture as an inspector and administrator, and most recently, as a certified construction specifier. Contracting is tough, and its even tougher if you want to have a stellar reputation. People have no idea how hard it is to do the right thing at every turn in contracting, because it's the conscientious guy who pays the price to get things right. If it helps at all, many, many buisinesses are closing up. Its not that you can't keep up, it's just that there is not enough business to keep you going. Nearly all of us have spent our reserves and borrowed all we can while Washington rewards their cronies with cash. As a contractor you can, to some extent, dictate your existence.
Having said that, since moving into the status of "employee" I left behind a lot of stress and a lot of headaches, but believe it or not, I left behind security as well. Since becoming an employee I am on my second layoff in five years- so far this one has lasted five months. When I was a contractor I could always find SOMETHING to do.
Keeping your tools is a good idea, and I might suggest a different approach. Depending on the state requirements, you could go "handyman" or something- picking up small stuff for people who are accustomed to paying their bills.
I've seen excellent contractors, architects, engineers, and specifiers go down in this depression, and its not going to change until we can build new and remodel again. Construction drives our economy, and construction has disappeared.
I hope you find a way to make some dough in the interim, but remember that it's not your lack of skills that have caused this. I hope you find a comfortable way to deal with this and move forward.
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TAB:
Something for you to consider before going out and taking a minimum wage job. Since your spouse is gainfully employed, make sure that adding a smaller income to her's doesn't put you guys into a higher tax bracket, costing you more in taxes than you'll be able to make. My wife's best friend is a doctor and it costs them less to have her husband stay home and keep house than to get a job and put them into a higher tax bracket.
Just something for you to look into so you don't end up screwing yourself.
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sorry to hear it TAB, I hope you get back up on your feet soon.
DW
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You have the skills and tools. Go work smaller cash only jobs and don't give the govt any of it.
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Dang TAB! Sorry to hear all of that. My company has shut down most of our CA operation this year due to the economy and the employer-unfriendly armosphere. We are facing similar economic issues in other states, and are struggling to retain good employees because when things turn around, and we beleive it will, we will need those folks. Saying all of that to let you know that I feel your pain in wanting to do the right thing for your employees and your company.
Hang in there!
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DO NOT "GIVE UP" ! If you are "cutting your losses" you are adapting to economic change in your area, that is a POSITIVE attitude, "giving up" is a negative attitude that will effect your mindset in the future .
The bright part of the equation is that whether the economy recovers, or totally collapses if you keep your tools you will be assured of being able to get by. You have a skill that people need and while they may be able to wait longer than your business can take, they can not put that type of work for ever.
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Sorry about the job problems.
I have a great friend on the East coast who did kitchens and baths. It got bad enough she went back to nursing. Things are back to normal except many of her subs took full time jobs so she spends twice as much time bossing jobs as before.
Good luck on finding something you'll enjoy.
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TAB, Go to work at HOME DEPOT, they need to have at least ONE person who knows what they are talking about.
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PS: It was a POS CA company that laid my sorry ass off - three (now four) quarters at a loss. And big losses. Instead of making $3-400 mil per quarter, they are losing more than 100 mil per quarter.
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Tab just a question, with all the natural disasters last year, fire and mudslides and such, seems like a lot homes need replacement or major repair, are the illegal hiring contractors just underbidding the crap out of you??
Don't call it quitting, your relocating your assets until they are needed again.
Best of luck.
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DO NOT "GIVE UP" ! If you are "cutting your losses" you are adapting to economic change in your area, that is a POSITIVE attitude, "giving up" is a negative attitude that will effect your mindset in the future .
The bright part of the equation is that whether the economy recovers, or totally collapses if you keep your tools you will be assured of being able to get by. You have a skill that people need and while they may be able to wait longer than your business can take, they can not put that type of work for ever.
I agree - NEVER GIVE UP! Close down one company and start another or be self-employed. You have marketable skills.
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Sorry to read this TAB, perhaps smaller more specialized/custom jobs to a more select clientele?
Stick to it, don;t just walk away completely, market those mega Hollywood, upscale women in Ca, that would love a kitchen makeover, etc,...
Something!!! You got tools and talent in your trade, just diversify and kiss your wife.
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TAB,
When I read you were quitting, something inside me groaned. Like the others, don't give up! If you can find someway to make it in this environment, you make it anytime, anywhere. Keep your head up!
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Tab just a question, with all the natural disasters last year, fire and mudslides and such, seems like a lot homes need replacement or major repair, are the illegal hiring contractors just underbidding the crap out of you??
Don't call it quitting, your relocating your assets until they are needed again.
Best of luck.
I actually don't build houses. I could, but I would be basicly subbing 90% of it out, which means I would not make any money. To be a home builder, I really need atleast 10 employees.
What I specialize in is home that are about 100 years old. I bring them up to modern living standards, but keep them looking as "OEM" as you can. My over specialization, is part of the reson why I am in trouble.
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...., between people bouncing checks and disappearing subs/ generals... I'm sick of busting my ass and having to pay to do it. I have a bond and insurance payment due on the 1st and I don't have the money to pay them. ..... Some of that is my fault for trying to keep people employed, some is me getting burned on deals and some is do to the bad econ.......
Tab, I hate this for you but you seem to have your business solutions about sewed up...other than the sucky economy you can't fix. If you could count on stability you could plan...and I guess that's the business risk. One of the principles of the nation was to ensure wealth did not become concentrated in the hands of a few but was spread about to those who would work...The American Way. In England, wealth was concentrated and hard work got you survival at best unless you were privileged...so fair taxation was employed to start our nation and responsibility to pay debts (debtors prison). Unfortunately we are turning from fairness and are working hard for the privileged (ruling class politicians and their lackeys); which would be irresponsible people and the greedy politicians which use government funds to buy the irresponsible one's votes which says we are getting back to becoming peasants.
OK...that having been said do you think the economy is going to improve and when? Another foundation of our nation is stability..knowing what to expect and not being subject to the whims of a dictator...i.e., the legislative process, the rule of law and, by the way, it was intended to be deliberate and slow for stability purposes and that is not what we are seeing going on today. That is going by the wayside so knowing what to expect is tough...especially when our nation uses debt to finance vote buying and discourages producing things at home.
OK...let's say you are convinced things are going to get better and stay that way. Here you go:
.... What I specialize in is home that are about 100 years old. I bring them up to modern living standards, but keep them looking as "OEM" as you can. My over specialization, is part of the reson why I am in trouble.
So now, you've done all of the work to analyze where you could have improved. 1) diversify your service/product line. 2) economic background checks, i.e. run their credit 3) helping people when you didn't have the means to help them 4) personnel retention and 5) planning and homework improvement so as to not get "burned".
Now you really only have three big decisions to make. You are a smart guy and you seem to like to own and run a business so this is how I see it from the outside:
1. Do you think the economy will improve and when. A business and timing decision controlled by the government.
2. Do you think the outlook will be stable, i.e., a level playing field you can count on for working hard and taking a risk and that the rules won't change on you to your detriment? Another issue controlled by the government.
3. Those business tweaks I mentioned above which is really only a paraphrase of things you have identified. Something you can control...in a large part to be successful.
Two things the government controls you have to have faith in and one thing you control. This is why business has a partnership with government which does not mean today what it used to mean. Today that partnership with government is a handout bailout/payoff and not at all what it used to mean. Strange how the libs criticized business in the past but are the first ones to step in with money and confusion and that would include the RINO's who are really libs as well.
So, you have faith in yourself you know what to do. Do you have faith in your government?
No faith in the government supplying you a stable playing field and an improving economy means you go the employee route.
If you believe in both the stable playing field and an improving economy then it's up to you to decide if you really want to be an employee and if not then plan on how to reenter your business with your new business outlook.
You really are a smart guy for this stuff and my observation is that you won't be happy being an employee. But, I really do think the decision is 2 parts government and 1 part you which you already know how to fix. How do you know what the government is going to do...that's the business risk.
I hope this helps...even if you do have some sucky politics. ;)
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the local econ is only going to get worse. Right after the election, we will have more lay offs at the state, which will hurt the area very badly. When they started doing furlow days for state employees, every thing went off like a swtich. 60% of the population had thier wages cut by 15%. That basicly killed everyones "play money" Yeah there is still some "has to be done" stuff, but for the most part, unless its something really drastic, like a tree falling on a house, or a fire( in other words insurance money) you really don't make any money on those jobs. The only people I know that are making any money right now in construction are huge companys doing things like road way construction. the only reason they are making money is do to the federal goverment is printing it.
Let me put it too you this way, my gross sales for this year are 9.3% of what they were last year.
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Good luck, Tab! :(
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the local econ is only going to get worse. Right after the election, we will have more lay offs at the state, which will hurt the area very badly. When they started doing furlow days for state employees, every thing went off like a swtich. 60% of the population had thier wages cut by 15%. That basicly killed everyones "play money" ...........
That sounds just like the Soviet Union overspending spiral. Bloated government, lack of production and the little guy suffers. Sorry to hear that. You may want to look for a change of venue.
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TAB, I don't know what to telly ya dude. You and I are kinda in the same boat.
I am lucky in that I am a veteran from Illinois. So that allows me to use the Illinois Veteran's Grant program to go back to any Illinois state school. I might just do that....either for nursing...(let's see if I can spell it?? :P ) anethesiology...or pharmacy school.
I would also like to jump on the "It's all the illegal aliens fault!" bandwagon, too. But that problem ain't ever going away, and in fact, I think it will probably only get worse. :o
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A large part of this problem is simply that this is California. I left about 25-years ago because I didn't like the state income tax. My dad left about the same time after spending 30 years in the state educational system as a philosophy professor. California harrassed him for taxes for years after he left the state. Their claim was that his IRA was controlled by a California-based firm, therefore, it was California income and he owed California taxes. He finally beat that claim with a good AZ attorney, changing his financial advisor, and showing proof of paying state income taxes in AZ.
We all had some hope when the Governator came into office, but he has been just as wild a spender as the libs who preceeded him.
I heard the mayor of LA yesterday claiming that the city would have a $1.8 billion (yes, with a "b") shortfall in revenue in 2010. I think the state is joing down the porcelain facility with increasing speed and the best solution might just be to get the heck out and then give it back to Mexico.
All I can say is good luck, Tab. When you're ready to move to Florida (or Texas) let me know and I'll buy you a beer and arrange to give you a hand. Haz's kid is still young enough to help with the boxes and stuff. Haz and and I can still supervise.
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Good luck Tab!
Time for a move out of California.
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Sorry to hear it TAB. Good luck in your future job.
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The economy will continue to tank until we get rid of Barry and even then it's questionable due to his spending and the debt.
There are no right answers except self preservation. The Bush tax cuts go away tomorrow and we will all pay more for new taxes. I told my Senator that if things got worse I was going to move in with her... that didn't go over real well. A number of people I know are getting dual citizenships and/or thinking about going home to their native Countries. Let Congress suck on that for a while.
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The economy will languish until construction increases from the dead stop it is at right now. I see road and bridge work going everywhere and that doesn't help a bit because we're paying for all that with Nobama dollars.
We need to see building renovations, upgrades, and new construction. It affects EVERY segment of the economy and again....it won't get better 'till the carpenters, masons, plumbers, and electricians are working again.
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Sorry to hear that TAB. Good luck.
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The economy will languish until construction increases from the dead stop it is at right now. I see road and bridge work going everywhere and that doesn't help a bit because we're paying for all that with Nobama dollars.
We need to see building renovations, upgrades, and new construction. It affects EVERY segment of the economy and again....it won't get better 'till the carpenters, masons, plumbers, and electricians are working again.
You are 100% correct, my friend. Sadly, the government is less concerned about rebounding the economy, and more concerned about putting money into their benefactors' pockets.
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The economy will languish until construction increases from the dead stop it is at right now. I see road and bridge work going everywhere and that doesn't help a bit because we're paying for all that with Nobama dollars.
We need to see building renovations, upgrades, and new construction. It affects EVERY segment of the economy and again....it won't get better 'till the carpenters, masons, plumbers, and electricians are working again.
For 15 years I've seen the need to start focusing on the nation's infrastructure. I've advised my sons that this may be the way to make the big bucks in the future. However, you are most right about the NOBAMA dollars. It is indeed possible that work will go nowhere just like in the Soviet Union while their meager infrastructure crumbled. If we follow communism or the ugly sister socialism then there is no hope to crawl out of this morass.