The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on January 02, 2010, 01:30:25 PM
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I have a late sixties S@W .38. The gun is in like new condition. It is not (obviously) rated for +P rounds. The question is this. Can I safely load these for SD? I don't intend to target shoot with them. I doubt I'll fire more than six, just to make sure they hit where I'm aiming. They would just ride in the cylinder in case I have to use it (as opposed to my Glock) in an SD situation. Is this ok safety wise or could it damage the pistol?
FQ13
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You could probably do it without damage. But this could be a good excuse to buy another gun though ::) ;D.
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Courtesy of the Snubbie files...
http://www.snubnose.info/docs/+p_old_revolvers.htm
Its question I get a lot, I have a 1930 vintage Colt Detective Special that I inherited from my grandfather, and I want to know if its OK to use +p ammo in it. The factory wont tell me anything. Hmmm
perhaps theres a reason for that? The fact is that they probably dont know for sure and are unwilling to take the legal risk of telling you that it is OK without any qualification. Metallurgy in this country during the early years of the Twentieth Century was good, but not as good as it is now, and there is little doubt that substandard batches of metal were used at times. Hardening techniques in firearms werent universally applied even as late as WWII. Consequently, it is impossible to say without qualification that its totally OK to use hot modern ammo in the elderly wheel gun.
To speak for a moment in the contrary direction, I have yet to run into a story in which someone blew up a gun by firing factory loaded regular +p in it, regardless of the guns age. The proof loads for S&W revolvers are said to be twice the normal charge. Once, by accident, I fired a .38 Special double charge in a Smith & Wesson Airweight Model 637. This gun was made prior to the +p ratings. This would have been 11.2 grains of Winchester 231 powder under a 125g bullet. While I felt like I had caught a major league pitchers fast ball without a glove, the gun held together and was not damaged in any way. (Kids dont try this at home as I said, this was an accident and I would not knowingly pull the trigger on a cartridge like that.) Guns are pretty sturdy most of the time, and normal +p is not that much hotter than standard pressure loads.
So, why is there such nervousness about recommending +p in old guns? Besides the metallurgy factors I mentioned earlier, there can be hidden corrosion, defects and even metal fatigue in very old guns that is not apparent to casual inspection. Consequently, neither I nor anyone else living in this litigious society will be willing to give you an unqualified green light to run the hottest modern ammo in a revolver that is seventy years old.
The only really worry-free solution to this problem is to retire the seventy-year-old warhorse to the safe and buy a modern snubby that is rated for +p so you dont have to be guessing. If that is not an option, stick to standard pressure ammunition in your very old guns. Your hands and face will thank you for it.
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Standard pressure with todays "trick" bullets should be enough for SD purposes if you do not care to risk the +P's.
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Recommend this for you:
#
38 Special 110 gr Critical Defense® See details
38 Special 110 gr Critical Defense®
SKU: 90310 | 25/BX
MSRP: $26.07
As for going +P, if you pop the gun in a SD situation and you survive but ruin the firearm.... good by me. In no way will S&W give you the official O.K. because the current company did not make that firearm, so they are not going to vouch for someone else.
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As previously posted, there is plenty of "top-shelf" .38 standard defense rounds out there. +P's in a pistol that may handle a couple and detonate on the last one due to age or original construction,...? Knowing I can shoot all six without getting a surprise that disables me, destroys the pistol, and leaves me vulnerable in a SD situation.....
I just wouldn't risk it, the ballistics between the two won't matter if you get the bullets on target, and you won't take a chance of a kaboom...that could injure you.
Just my .02 cents...
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FQ,
Interestingly enough I was wondering the same thing several years back when I purchased a NOS S&W Chief's Special Model 60 stainless J frame that was made in 1975. I decided to call Smith and Wesson and after I posed the question the person I was speaking with said he wasn't sure but would hand me over to someone who would know. Much to my surprise and delight Roy Jinks himself came to the phone. After a very nice conversation and answering several questions about the gun and confirming date of manufacturer as 1975 via serial number, Mr. Jinks said by all means I can shoot .38 +P loads through the gun as long as that is not the sole load used constantly. He recommended practicing with standard .38 loads and finishing up with two or three cylinders of +P loads that duplicate my carry load. I have been doing that for about three years now without a single problem. As a matter of fact the Model 60 is in my front pocket right now in a Mika pocket holster. Mr. Jinks stated that +P loads didn't exist several decades ago so obviously no such designation would have been made, but the steel revolvers made by S&W could certainly handle a reasonable amount of +P loads run through them.
I would recommend exactly the same, run a couple or few cylinders of +P to finish up a range session and carry Speer Gold Dots 135 gr. Short Barrel +P loads, the NYPD load for those veteran officers still carrying revolvers. A great round for a snubbie or any other .38 revolver. It's what I always carry and also finish up range practice with, after practicing with standard .38 Spl Federal American Eagle. Should you decide to carry just .38 Spl. the Federal Nyclad round is back which is certainly great news as well. This was the NYPD load prior to Gold Dots and I still have a few boxes stashed away that I was saving mainly as a collectible. But now that Federal reintroduced Nyclads at last year's Shot show, I may just give them a go at the range.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
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+ p in your j frame is fine, it is not going to blow up, it will accelerate wear, if you do a lot of it, but the pistol will take it.