The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: the45guy on January 03, 2010, 10:12:50 AM
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Hello
I am kinda curious We kinda all know that Glock pretty much dominates the Law enforcement for issued carry on duty weapons.
But what does every one think dominates the general non law enforcement carry people?
You such as Glocks,1911"s, S&W,HK,XD/XDM and so on.
What is carry most do you think by the general public/you?
Thanks
Thanks for the first reply but I am asking for brands of guns most carried not the cal. Like mentioned above Glocks,S&W and so and so.
I think I got the poll on there right I'm new to the forum so pretty rusty yet.
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Based on ammo availability (or lack of ) I'd say probably .380 semi auto's .
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Lots of S&W J frames, Kahrs (SP?) are also mentioned a lot,then there are the mini Glocks,& 1911 officers sized.
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I put a vote in for S&W because it's what I'm carrying, but I think you poll question is overly broad.
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I put a vote in for S&W because it's what I'm carrying, but I think you poll question is overly broad.
It need to be broad because I'm trying to get a result of what brand of gun is carried by the general public for SD the most.
There should be a lot of people that carry theses days and I don't want any kind of gun left out, just can't list them all.
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Personally I carry a 1911 in .45 acp, but that caliber is available on the shelves, I based my GUESS of .380 on the fact that the caliber used to be carried ever where that sold ammo but now is scarcer than hens teeth and darned expensive when you DO find it.
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Personally I carry a 1911 in .45 acp, but that caliber is available on the shelves, I based my GUESS of .380 on the fact that the caliber used to be carried ever where that sold ammo but now is scarcer than hens teeth and darned expensive when you DO find it.
Ain't that the truth finding ammo has been a nightmare.
I also enjoy a full size 1911 for carry and when I'm not it's a G21 or G20 I favor the 45ACP and 10MM.
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Glock 26. Want a 1911 in 45 acp. Next purchase will be a Glock 19. I found one for $389.
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Lots of folks are carrying Kel-tec in .380 or LCPs because they are small, inexpensive and seem reliable. I'm not sure if you are looking for a reccomendation or just want survey info. In either case my answer is the same. A glock 26, though the G27 in .40 is basically the same gun. Small enough, accurate enough, reliable and relatively inexpensive ($500+/-).
FQ13
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Lots of folks are carrying Kel-tec in .380 or LCPs because they are small, inexpensive and seem reliable. I'm not sure if you are looking for a reccomendation or just want survey info. In either case my answer is the same. A glock 26, though the G27 in .40 is basically the same gun. Small enough, accurate enough, reliable and relatively inexpensive ($500+/-).
FQ13
Just looking survey purposes been carrying a gun for 30 some years now. Darn near molded to the hip HA! HA!
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S&W is the largest gun maker in the United States. Nearly all of their handguns are approved for sale in MA so lets assume that most are good in CA as well. I rarely, if ever, have found a gun shop that didn't have S&W in their inventory and based on the prices, they need to move these guns.
From the supply and demand side, I vote S&W though I don't own one and may never...
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I would say most likly smith, between the j frame and all the 3rd gen autos that tons of LEAs still issue smith has to be number one..
I personally carry a delta elite, a fully size 1911 is very easy to carry.
The way I look at CCW, if I'm going to carry a gun, it might as well be a gun I know that I can shoot quick/accurate, makes a big hole(45acp, 10 mm or 38 super all do that) and works 100% of the time.
For me, thats a 1911.
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I would say Snubbies and Mouseguns are probably the most widely carried.
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I have a Glock 27, M&P 340 J frame and a Para 1911 currently on my permit and it usually ends up being the J frame in my front pocket that goes with me.
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MB discussed just this the other day...stating that most gun guys he knows carry a j frame S&W of some sort. As for myself, I have and carry a J frame 642, Colt LW Officers ACP and a Ruger LCP. If I could find a new or lightly used Glock 26 without finger grooves I would add that to my collection after I put enough ammo thru it to be comfortable! I shot one shortly after they first came out (which was before Ohio had CC) and I didn't have the $$$$ to get one and then they added FG's and screwed things up.
JMHO
Richard
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My G21 is way too damn big for concealed carry in south Fl. I don't dress like Don Johnson(Crockett), either, so a shoulder rig won't work.
Usually, pocket pistol in .380, or my new .38 snub, IWB. It just hugs the hip, still retains movement, sit comfortably, etc,...
Now that it is "cooler" my M+P .40, or FN9, fits IWB better than my G21, which is a railroad tie wide.(not the sf)...same for my full size 1911. Simply less clothing. I tried smaller Glocks for carry, but they lumped on my side. (just a personal thing).
I voted other, as the question covers alot of ground, especially if climate, is a factor. Snubs and sub compacts of all makes would seem likely.
Unless you have a -10 below North Face, Fargo winter coat, and long johns, hoody, and sweater,etc,....than you could get a T/C Contender under your coat,...maybe even a SERBU... :o
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Unless you have a -10 below North Face, Fargo winter coat, and long johns, hoody, and sweater,etc,....than you could get a T/C Contender under your coat,...maybe even a SERBU... :o
P90.... then if you have to fight your way back to the "gate" no worries!
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WAIT! (PLEASE)
The question was what does the "general" public carry. Not what "gun" guys carry. Not what's best to carry. But what's the average, non-gun aficionado have.
I'll say it's more in the "Value" line: Bryco, Jennings, Raven, Lorcin and HiPoint.
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WAIT! (PLEASE)
The question was what does the "general" public carry. Not what "gun" guys carry. Not what's best to carry. But what's the average, non-gun aficionado have.
I'll say it's more in the "Value" line: Bryco, Jennings, Raven, Lorcin and HiPoint.
Value line indeed,....hopefully, at least Bersa, Taurus, Kel-Tec, lines, .....Although, that little Davis .380 my ex has was alright,.... ::)
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"value" said with tongue-in-cheek.
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I think that the really cheap crap isn't going to be carried by most newbie CCWs. I mean they will have shelled out a couple of bills for the course, the background check, photos, prints and license. I see your average newbie as either a 22 year old kid or a soccer mom. Given they are not "gun guys" they will probably take the advice of their CCW teacher who will reccomend one of the usual suspects. Failing that, I see them going Kel-tec. If you can afford to get the license, you can afford to get a solid $275 pistol, and every gun shop has them and will be happy to sell you one.
FQ13
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I'm gonna agree here, although the choices are narrow.
I agree if someone go's through the ccw process, they will tend to get at least a base line quality pistol, probably based on the instructors recommendations. If they try to pass the course using a lorcin, bryco, jennings, I would be surprised if they could pass the course, in accuracy or reliability, but stranger things have happened.
In base line revolvers, Rossi, Taurus, I like the Taurus better, quality seems much higher. Stay away from RG. Rohm Germany revolvers, the real saturday night specials, pierced primers, failures to fire, awful.
In Semi's, Keltec, Taurus, Star, some of the surplus pistols like the makarov and the tokarev. Ugly, but probably work well, I would stay away from the 7.62 Tokarevs due to ineffectual performance, but the 9mm does nice. A makarov in 9x18 is a better cartridge than it used to be, and of course in .380 is ok too, if you can find ammo.
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Some states, like GA, don't require a "course" and the fees are not that high. Hence, any recommendation, would come from friends and from the gun/pawn dealer (if one is involved).
Also, I bet there are a lot of good people who are "carrying" that don't have the requisite CCW. Especially in states that are not "must" issues.
So the question is what is the definition of "population" for the question? All carries? Only legal carries?
Also the definitions of "carry", as well as "loaded", are what I would call "stretched" in some states. e.g., in Georgia, a "loaded" gun is one where a loaded magazine is nearby (readily available) even if the chamber is empty and the magazine is not in the gun!
One place of data to consider is a listing of confiscated guns. It may be skewed, but worth considering. The Savannah PDs list is definitely populated with the "less expensive" models, not the S&Ws, Sigs, Walthers, and Glocks.
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Oddly that list has a lot of FNH in 5.7.... Just saying it is really odd that several $1000+ guns showed up on this list.
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Alf has a point about legal and illegal CCW. Speaking hypothetically, a college grad who was managing an outfitters in suburban DC might have been denied a license, which were stupidly hard to get, the local cops had full disretion and the answer in Montgomery county was no. However, our hero still had to make night drops with days reciepts and decided to say f#ck it and risked the misdeamenor bust. The weapon of choice would have been a borrowed off the books .38. Had that not been available, a disposable gun would have been bought off paper at a gun show, so if it was confiscated, no big loss.
FQ13
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Well
First I am surprised there is not more votes so far, however I am kind of in away surprised that glock is in the lead.
I know thats a funny statement, I'll try to explain I've been involved in and around LE for a very long time and the glock is widely used because of the simplicity and the low cost that agencies can get them for the most part.
Most of the time if given the choice the Fellow LE's I know and deal with on a daily basis would carry a 1911 or something other then glock.
I like glock as well as many other guns including of course the 1911. I carry both, alot of the time my backup is a glock.
Wether my primary is a glock or 1911 or something else I will use a glock for a bug when I carry a bug.
I hope I keep getting replies and votes!
OH and no votes for the xd, personally I din't care for the XD however some agencies are switching from glock to xd's.
Funny part about that the glock27 is still their BUG.
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Well
First I am surprised there is not more votes so far, however I am kind of in away surprised that glock is in the lead.
I know thats a funny statement, I'll try to explain I've been involved in and around LE for a very long time and the glock is widely used because of the simplicity and the low cost that agencies can get them for the most part.
Most of the time if given the choice the Fellow LE's I know and deal with on a daily basis would carry a 1911 or something other then glock.
I like glock as well as many other guns including of course the 1911. I carry both, alot of the time my backup is a glock.
Wether my primary is a glock or 1911 or something else I will use a glock for a bug when I carry a bug.
I hope I keep getting replies and votes!
Everybody I know who conducts CWP training classes always says that the vast majority (75% +) of the guns in the classes are Glocks. When I took my CWP class I was the only one with a Glock and the instructor could not get over it. He said that the previous class he did was all Glocks except for one.
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Everybody I know who conducts CWP training classes always says that the vast majority (75% +) of the guns in the classes are Glocks. When I took my CWP class I was the only one with a Glock and the instructor could not get over it. He said that the previous class he did was all Glocks except for one.
I hear you.
I guess maybe a guy can only say that the dominant gun carried by the non-law-enforcement public (Is what works best or can be handled the best for each individual is the dominant one). I know when I was training I always seen mostly glocks but the reason was every one thinks there is no other gun more reliable.
I know a lot of guys I talk to say I don't carry a 1911 because there is to much maint. to keep them reliable don't figure.
It's a subject I could ramble on about forever I guess.
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"I agree if someone go's through the ccw process, they will tend to get at least a base line quality pistol, probably based on the instructors recommendations. If they try to pass the course using a lorcin, bryco, jennings, I would be surprised if they could pass the course, in accuracy or reliability, but stranger things have happened.
In base line revolvers, Rossi, Taurus, I like the Taurus better, quality seems much higher"
Add HiPoints, old EA Witness, Keltek, older Ruger Autoloaders
When they start shooting they ususlly see the error of their ways.
A friend who teaches the CCW course here in KY says if she sees the shooter with a decent 1911, HK , Sig or S&W revolver they usually have no problems. Glocks are 50/50. The rest seem to have learned their gunhandling and markmanship from the TV.
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Here in Assachusetts with some of the most draconian BS laws on the books, this is the course you MUST take...
The class is 4 hours in length minimum, NO live fire, NO loading of the gun, NO unloading of the gun, depending on the instructor, you may actually hold a gun but not everybody does this.
Goes something like this..."here's a firearm, this is the muzzle, this is the trigger, this is the "clip" or "magazine" or "cylinder" where the boolits go and when you pull back on the trigger, the boolits come out the muzzle end REAL fast so don't look down there!"
Please make the check out to......._____________________in the amount of ___________________...
Done! Send your Official Certificate of Training to the Chief of Polilce in your town and make check out to "Town of XYZ" in the amount of 100 bucks with the appropriate forms.
It's rediculous.....or am I repeating myself, again....
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The CCW weapon is the first gun or at least the first pistol for lot of people. They just never needed or wanted one before. Thats fine. As long as they practice I have no problems. Like all newbies a lot will make the newbie mistake of buying cheap, then a month later buying something better. I would also bet its a pretty good time to be a pistol instructor. Our local range seems to be doing a pretty brisk business in personal instruction.
FQ13
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Love my Tangfolio EAA Witness .40 compact. Solid, very reliable and accurate, has the "Wonderfinish", SA/DA...
Only thing that keeps me from carrying it more is the ported barrel, and the rear sight is kinda tall. If someone has a link to get a non-ported barrel, I'd appreciate it.
Not as heavy as it looks, and has a great grip.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/EAA40001.jpg)
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KY class
4 hours of lecture on KY deadly force laws via KY DOJ video
3 hours of instuctor composed on firearms, holsters, ammo and safety
15-30 minutes on gun cleaning
11 out of 20 rounds on a Q target at 7 yards from the low ready.
70% (?) on a 50 question written mutiple choice test
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KY class
4 hours of lecture on KY deadly force laws via KY DOJ video
3 hours of instuctor composed on firearms, holsters, ammo and safety
15-30 minutes on gun cleaning
11 out of 20 rounds on a Q target at 7 yards from the low ready.
70% (?) on a 50 question written mutiple choice test
Sounds like a useful class for newbies, legal requirements aside.
FQ13
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NC has an all day class, 7-9 hours, mostly class, scenarios, legal review, justified, video,..etc,..
than competency field stripping, loading, unloading, holstering, etc,.....
than live fire exercise with (for me 25 rds.) instructor graded every target. "Loosely, but still had to be in the black".
FL, ram and cram 2 hour course at the gun show, mostly filling out the form correctly, picture, fingerprint, $40, drive to nearest range, 150 people in class, take home Xerox copies of FL gun laws.
Shoot 1 round, with instructor furnished .38 revolver. pick up certificate, mail it in and wait.
I thought NC was much better in this regard. Class was limited to 12, instructor gave you one on one, you knew more when you left, than when you started.
Even the complete novice in my NC class, knew the fundamentals of safety, marksmanship, when she left with her old .38 revolver. She took away more than the yahoo's in the FL class...
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Sounds like a useful class for newbies, legal requirements aside.
FQ13
FQ,
I agree. It's good to know the ROE of the state you live in.
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KY class
4 hours of lecture on KY deadly force laws via KY DOJ video
3 hours of instuctor composed on firearms, holsters, ammo and safety
15-30 minutes on gun cleaning
11 out of 20 rounds on a Q target at 7 yards from the low ready.
70% (?) on a 50 question written mutiple choice test
other then the 11 of 20 rounds deal, that sounds like a great start.