The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on January 03, 2010, 01:20:29 PM
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I ask this question not to evaluate your financial status, just your mental comfort zone for buying a new firearm. The reason is that makers are going to be putting out a lot of new models, priced all over the map. Pretend we all have comfortable middle class incomes. What do you consider a bargain? What do you consider fair? What do you consider a stretch, but reasonable, and what falls under the "you have to be sh@tting me Pyle!' category? Obviously, the type of firearm will set the price to some degree, but I'm talking just a good solid weapon with no gold engraving, hand made reciever, virgin old growth walnut cut and and polished by naked unionized virgins, or an exact replica of the 1854 Acme whacKinator. Just something solidly built that you would take hunting or use for SD or a day at the range. Me, I consider anything under $500 to be a bargain. $500-$700 to be reasonable and up to about $1k, something I'll look at a rifle, and extend that to $1800 for a side by side (but it better be nice). Anything over $1800 might as well be on Mars, as I wouldn't buy even if I had the cash (hell, who am I kidding, I probably would buy it, but I'd still consider it expensive). ;D Your thoughts.
FQ13 Who is not including the price of glass here (again for me, figue $300 to $600 as reasonable for a hunting scope)
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Really it would depend on the gun, $1,000 for a Glock is ridiculous, but for a nicely balanced Double rifle it is a steal.
But general market type guns I'd say under $750 should buy any type of fire arm you want.
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I am a farm boy, 870 is about as expensive as it gets. Glock is the best bang for my buck when it comes to handguns. Rifles it would be a decent bolt gun.
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anything over 5k...
i've not done that yet, did make a offer a couple years back of 6k, but it was not taken.
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anything over 5k...
i've not done that yet, did make a offer a couple years back of 6k, but it was not taken.
I'll bet it was an over and under shotgun . Those are like double rifles, any thing under $10,000 is reasonable .
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nope. it was a cape gun. In all honesty it was most likly worth three times what I offered. The was hard up for money and all I had at that time was 6k.
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Anything over $700 for a "normal" handgun I consider expensive. (What I "feel" is expensive and what I'll actually break down and pay are not always in line with one another, much to my wife's dismay. :-X)
Shotguns, any pump that costs more than an 870, and any over/under that costs more than $1,500.
Rifles, an bolt gun over $800, any EBR over $1,000. ;)
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"Expensive Gun" - noun/concept:
1. Any gun that I need but truly cannot afford to buy.
2. Any gun that I want but can't justify the compromises necessary to purchase.
I've never run into a gun that fit into category 1... I've always found affordable options in the category of guns that I truly needed or was issued/loaned them for the purpose/time that they were necessary.
As for category two, that has changed over time. I paid what I considered a lot of money for a .50 at one point, then hit a spot where I needed the $$$ it was worth a lot more than I wanted the gun, so I sold it. Today, I really want a Bren Ten, but I can't justify the $$$ to buy it. Someday, maybe I will... The point being that definition #2 is not a constant value.
-RJP
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Anything over $700 for a "normal" handgun I consider expensive. (What I "feel" is expensive and what I'll actually break down and pay are not always in line with one another, much to my wife's dismay. :-X)
Shotguns, any pump that costs more than an 870, and any over/under that costs more than $1,500.
Rifles, an bolt gun over $800, any EBR over $1,000. ;)
We are on about the same page. I think that I should be able to walk into a gun store with about $500-$600 dollars and walk out with some thing used but solid. EBRs and doubles will cost more, but for 6 bills I would expect that I could get a decent pump shotgun, bolt action 30-06 or .308, or semi-auto pistol, if not new, then pretty darn close to new.
FQ13
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They are ALL expensive!!!!
The big BUT is:
My family is worth it.
My "a**" is worth it.
I thought $1200.00 was unreal for my Sig556 in Feb. 08. Than they went close to $2000. My Walther PPK/S was expensive, but my slightly used Glock21 with 400rds of ammo and 4 15rd. mags, was a steal,....
and so it goes....
Unless your billt....and by them by the pair,.... ;D
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The longer you've been in this game, the more expensive they get! You tend to remember prices, but quickly dismiss inflation. I paid $800.00 for a new Beretta Onyx Sporting Clays O/U back in 1994, now it's over $2,000.00. If I want to make myself sick, I pick up the first Gun Digest I ever bought in the 6th grade. It was a 1961 edition. S&W Model 41 $100.00 brand new. A Grade 1 Browning Superposed $285.00. Anyway, you get the idea. They're all too expensive! Bill T.
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"Expensive Gun" - noun/concept:
1. Any gun that I need but truly cannot afford to buy.
2. Any gun that I want but can't justify the compromises necessary to purchase.
and
3. Any gun that don't go bang when you pull the trigger
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Since I live close to Sparta, IL where the American ...err... Amateur Trapshooting Association has its very big 2 week long national championships called the Grand, I get to browse the vendor booths like Beretta, Perazi, and Kohler (if I am even spelling that correctly).
The first year that the Grand was here in Sparta, the local papers had a big spiel about a $420,000 shotgun. IIRC, it was a finely engraved 4 barrel set, shotgun by Perazi.
So....that kinda puts things in perspective.
Another thing that puts gun prices in perspective is a friend of mine is an FFL in Missouri and the po-po officers can get their Glocks for $250 each. Jeesh.... ::) no wonder Glock has such a huge market share in the LE world.
I had lusted for a stainless Beretta since about 1994. I finally bought my first one in about 2005 or 2006 when I heard that Beretta USA was going to stop making them. I have four now, 2 92 FS Brigadier Inox's and 2 96 Brigadier Inox's. I got them all at about $600 each, which I think is a steal for something that will probably never be made again. Ah....ah...Just a quick look over at the Beretta USA website shows that they are still making the Inox models, just none of the Brigadier or Elite models. The nice thing about the Brig models is that the front sights are dovetailed in, so it is replaceable with a fiber optic or a tritium night sight.
Having a gun that runs 100% in competitions is.....(wait for it).... priceless. ;)
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Beretta of Italy does make a 92/96 Stock or Combat model that does have the safety or decocker on the frame. I would absolutely love to have one of those, but the few I have actually seen on gunbroker have gone close to $1,500. :o
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kohler makes plumbing fixtures and generators.
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kohler makes plumbing fixtures and generators.
I think he meant Kolar Shotguns, handmade, pricey.....out of Wisconsin...
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kohler makes plumbing fixtures and generators.
Speaking of which, that is one fine example of plumber's butt... ;D
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Speaking of which, that is one fine example of plumber's butt... ;D
it would be if we got rid of the thong.
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If I were buying a O/U for competition, and having it fitted to me for length of pull etc. I would not blink at spending $10 or $20,000, $10,000 for a Krieghoff would be reasonable..
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There are some great guns out there for less than 10K that aren't adorned with another 10K of engraving. As a machinist, you're aware that fit of a break action needs to be close tolerance to last the tens of thousands of rounds these guns are fired in competition. Even a small amount of movement in the gun will cause problems over time.
It's the hand lapping and attention to detail that you're paying for. The rest is just for show!
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There are some great guns out there for less than 10K that aren't adorned with another 10K of engraving. As a machinist, you're aware that fit of a break action needs to be close tolerance to last the tens of thousands of rounds these guns are fired in competition. Even a small amount of movement in the gun will cause problems over time.
It's the hand lapping and attention to detail that you're paying for. The rest is just for show!
you can have a gun that is very plane and its still well above 10k.
you can pay 7k for a accuracy international, add in a Schmidt & Bender and your well norht of 10k.
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Kriegoff is the other name I was thinking of. I probably got it confused with Spolar which is a maker of a high fallutin' shotgun shell reloader.
I think people are buying more into a shotgun than just the attention to detail of hand lapping this and hand lapping that comes with a shotgun priced at $10,000 or more.
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you can have a gun that is very plane and its still well above 10k.
you can pay 7k for a accuracy international, add in a Schmidt & Bender and your well norht of 10k.
Yes there are and you know more of these things than I do. But what's the point?
I could once shoot in the high 70's with a $100.00 set of use golf clubs. It's the shooter not the gun!
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Depends, depends, depends... If the gun is for SD, then reliability is the biggest factor. Should be able to get a decent Glock for 5-bills. If, on the other hand, you are going to hunt elk on a guided trip that will set you back 4-grand plus transportation and taxidermy, then the price of your long gun should reflect the value of the hunt and $2000-4000 or something more might not be unreasonable. If you will be hunting cape buffalo in the wilds of Africa, and you wish to maintain a connection with the tradition of the big game hunt, a $10,000 double rifle might be just the ticket. OR, if you wallet is infested with moths and Mrs. Crusader thinks the arms collection has exceeded all reason, then $40 worth of ammo makes a pretty fair investment in the armory. Seriously, Haz and I own a Winchester 30-30 that I got for a couple c-notes. It's a great pig gun, and I would have no qualms about taking it on a deer hunt. On the handgun side of things, my Ruger Red Hawk in .44 Mag was just over $400 (used, of course) and it has become my favorite wheel gun. Personal carry is a Glock 27 that I got used about 10 years ago for $475 with a few mags and some ammo. I've seen them available currently in the $520 range. It always goes bang when my booger hooker hits the boom switch. I'm no fanatic believer regarding the Glock line, but my experience tells me it works. I would believe less if I had to pay new retail. So, FQ, I guess my definition of a pricey gun would be over $650 for a hand gun and probably over $1000 for a long gun. As you can see, I am a simple man. But, I engage in no competitive shooting which could rapidly upgrade my estimations... I'm just sayin'
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Yes there are and you know more of these things than I do. But what's the point?
I could once shoot in the high 70's with a $100.00 set of use golf clubs. It's the shooter not the gun!
Tiger Woods can still beat anyone on the golf course with Pawn Shop Clubs,...(no Tiger Woods drifting, just making an observation),
A golfer could play a lot better using his clubs (on the course), (I know it's easy but hang on),...
Point is, Buying a Ferrari is of no use if you can barely handle your Subaru....
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Tiger Woods can still beat anyone on the golf course with Pawn Shop Clubs,...(no Tiger Woods drifting, just making an observation),
A golfer could play a lot better using his clubs (on the course), (I know it's easy but hang on),...
Point is, Buying a Ferrari is of no use if you can barely handle your Subaru....
Exactly!
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twyacht wrote:
Point is, Buying a Ferrari is of no use if you can barely handle your Subaru....
But you will at least look "sexier' than all your friends in their Subaru's.
(http://www.newhealthbasics.com/Art/FernandoMahvelous230x225.jpg)
"And remember, darling, it is better to look good, than to feel good. And darling you look marrrvvvellllouusss!"
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;D
That's damn funny right there Tyler,...
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old army buddy of mine gave me an offer on his "sniper rifle" basically a model 700 with a heavy barrel and a cool looking stock that he managed to sneak off with after he was discharged.
$3000
damn near bought it as well, then i looked it up online.
speaking of it i could do with a new bolt gun. Winchester brought back the model 70 a few years ago. maybe in 300 win mag...
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Point is, Buying a Ferrari is of no use if you can barely handle your Subaru....
But if you're Michael Schumacher, you are better off sticking with Ferrari. He doesn't even lift at the end of the straight, (1:17) ! Bill T.
http://www.youtube.com/user/billt460#p/f/74/k0MvA1tE0ZU
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But if you're Michael Schumacher, you are better off sticking with Ferrari. He doesn't even lift at the end of the straight, (1:17) ! Bill T.
http://www.youtube.com/user/billt460#p/f/74/k0MvA1tE0ZU
That's about as close to good sex as you can get,....IMHO.... ;)
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Expensive to me is where the price exceeds the value of the experience I will get from it, whether it is gun, a car, washing machine etc...
As most of you know I have some expensive rifles, and a pistol or 2. But they were all purchased under valued for what they are.
My 2 M40's were 3000 each, but included the glass, MK4 Leupolds, McMillan A3 stocks, Krieger barrels, Timney triggers and HS Precision steel trigger guards with detachable Mags. Built by an expert precision rifle builder. Texas Brigade armory, Mike Lau, one time editor for precision shooting magazine. Thats a lot of money, but these 2 will shoot with an AWI, Not as tough I will admit. And they always shoot well.
MY FN SPR I got new undervalued because some stocking person mismarked the price. I got it for 1000 out the door, Still working on it, The bedding was screwed up from the factory, and my rebedding really has not taken well. It starts out at .5 moa, then the next 5 will be 3/4 then the next 5 an 1", up to 1 1/2 " when really hot, it wants to shoot and I'm not ready to give up on it yet.
I would not have paid full price for any of these.
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There are some great guns out there for less than 10K that aren't adorned with another 10K of engraving. As a machinist, you're aware that fit of a break action needs to be close tolerance to last the tens of thousands of rounds these guns are fired in competition. Even a small amount of movement in the gun will cause problems over time.
It's the hand lapping and attention to detail that you're paying for. The rest is just for show!
Absolutely, It's the difference between mass produced and hand crafted. In reality I not only am fine with massed produced, it better suits my purposes, just for example if something breaks I can replace it in days from midway or Brownell's rather than sending the gun back and waiting weeks for a replacement part to be custom fitted.
But the fact remains that if you want the hand crafted stuff you are going to pay.
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I still consider $500 and up expensive for handguns and rifles. Not that I wouldn't pay it for a gun i really wanted should I have the $$$ (and I have recently.). Shotguns, I haven't considered or looked at for a while, so I really ain't sure. A good pump shotgun like the Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 still seem reasonably priced. My Mossberg 590 was a steal, BTW. ;) I've also come to a realization that when it comes time to get me that lever action .357 I want, I'll have to pay around $500 for it; maybe a bit more. The $200 ones from 10 years ago are all gone....... $1,000 to $2,000 would be a stretch for me to pay. I would, but it'd have to be the right gun, and while I have that kind of extra dough. And as far as an absolute WTF price? anything over $2,500. Not that there's not a few guns out there that I'd want that are those prices, it's just that I'm not likely to ever drop that kind of money on one.
Example of OVER MY WTF LIMIT (that I happen to want):
http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/KODIAK-MARK-IV-DOUBLE-RIFLE-c140.htm
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There are some great guns out there for less than 10K that aren't adorned with another 10K of engraving. As a machinist, you're aware that fit of a break action needs to be close tolerance to last the tens of thousands of rounds these guns are fired in competition. Even a small amount of movement in the gun will cause problems over time.
It's the hand lapping and attention to detail that you're paying for. The rest is just for show!
And that is why I have bought high end doubles without the engraving. I have owned and hunted with a "Best" Webley and Sons, an LC Smith, Bernadelli, Citori, and Aya. All with high end hand lapped (or hand made in the case of the Webley) parts but no dancing wood nymphs done up in gold filagree (The local dealer was an understanding sort and would only ding you about $100 if you traded one of his in on another, it was almost like a rental policy). All of the go, none of the show. The thing is, even when I was paying for these in trades, student loans, and tutoring the gun store owner's niece, who was a freshman at UT (and if she'd been straight, yes I would have married her even though she did weigh 200 pounds), they didn't fit. I have long arms and its stupid to dump high dollars in a shotgun, aethetics aside, if it doesen't fit you better than an off the rack Mossberg. I finally settled on a Merkel Model 8. Its probably worth $2k fair market value, and fits like it was made for me. I couldn't afford then, and still can't afford now to get a gun custom made, but this the closest it comes. The thing is 30 yers old and the tolerances are so tight that you have to put a little elbow grease into breaking it open. My great grand kids will be shooting this thing. I wouldn't/couldn't buy it today, but it is not over priced. Likewise I inheireted my great grandads Parker. Its a plain jane vh, with no case colors left and no extractors, but it shoots as good as it did when he brought it home new in 1917. Nothing fancy, just a hand made double that is still good to go after almost a hundred years, and I do shoot the hell out of it on clays and birds. Sometimes expensive is dictated by quality and how much you like the thing. Some guns are tools, others are art, others are about memory. What is expensive varies depending on circumstance.
Fq13
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"Expensive Gun" - noun/concept:
1. Any gun that I need but truly cannot afford to buy.
2. Any gun that I want but can't justify the compromises necessary to purchase.
-RJP
I'd add:
Any gun that I buy that I truly shouldn't have.
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FQ, you really ARE a meathead ! You take guns like that to a place like this;
http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/
And have them custom fitted to your body. There are other places that do this as well but this one I thought of by name.
They trim or shim the stock based on your arm length and steam bend it to give the desired cast on or off.
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FQ, you really ARE a meathead ! You take guns like that to a place like this;
http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/
And have them custom fitted to your body. There are other places that do this as well but this one I thought of by name.
They trim or shim the stock based on your arm length and steam bend it to give the desired cast on or off.
Three problems with that Tom. One is getting there. Two is price, and three is I'm a lefty and need cast off on a stock. Yes I could have gotten them restocked but that is hideously pricy. I didn't put more than $500 cash and two nice rifles into any of those guns. The subsequent ones cost $50-$100 each on the trade and some tutoring hours. It wasn't like could afford a thousand for a new stock and forend.
FQ13
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too much? when I pay the regular market price...
I look for deals. though I will say that my Bersa was expensive. but the price here was a little below local market prices and included all the paperwork and applications, fees etc.. for my carry permit.
filled out my C&R application and will be sending it out when I get back to the states. I KNOW I can get stuff cheaper that way! ;D
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FQ, a little searching would have probably found SEVERAL companies that did the same thing where you were at the time.
You don't get a new stock, they custom bend the one you have. If you have a high end blaster why would you pinch pennies on accessories ?
Granted you didn't know about it at the time, but I want to make sure that you understand you got rid of heirloom guns now worth several thousand $ each, and back then the fitting would have cost about the same as what you laid out in cash to trade, maybe less ;D
You may now go kick yourself, repeatedly ;D
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FQ, a little searching would have probably found SEVERAL companies that did the same thing where you were at the time.
You don't get a new stock, they custom bend the one you have. If you have a high end blaster why would you pinch pennies on accessories ?
Granted you didn't know about it at the time, but I want to make sure that you understand you got rid of heirloom guns now worth several thousand $ each, and back then the fitting would have cost about the same as what you laid out in cash to trade, maybe less ;D
You may now go kick yourself, repeatedly ;D
Actually no kicking. I could have only afforded to keep one. All of them were well built but plain Jane. I did prefer the Webley in looks and function, but the stock had a small crack and would have had to be replaced eventuallly (maybe by me, maybe my grandkids), but it was a time bomb which is why is was $2k rather than a $10k gun. The thing is, by tradig these I discovered I like SxS a lot better than O/U and I got to shoot some nice ones. If I could have kept them all I would have, but given my budget, one expensive shot gun was all I could keep and the one I have is perfect for me.
FQ13