The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on January 04, 2010, 01:59:39 PM
-
K...I began looking at this after reading a post at warriortalk some time back. Our friend Iraq Ninja (a contractor currently in Iraq), had posted that he'd done this with one of his Glocks and what his impressions were. I want to point out first that IraqNinja is a good to go guy and when he puts something on one of his guns, it calls for some attention.
I also know that the competitive shooting crowd has used red dot optics with great results for some time, although until recently, most of the red dots intended for pistol usage have been quite large. As well, Kelly McCann used a Docter optical sight on one of his Glocks in a DVD. So, before anyone accuses me of claiming to invent this, be advised, the idea is not new. I will also say that while the things that men like Brian Enos, Rob Leatham, and others train for are different than what we train for, we would be fools to not look at the advancements that come from their side of the house and adopt them, with modifications perhaps, for our applications.
Some might question why?
Well, in truth, for shots in a reactive problem inside of five yards, you could do just fine without any sights at all. But if you need shots outside of that realm, or long shots such as what may be required in an active shooter role, you will need sights. Regular sights will do fine if situations are right, but often I get calls asking about night sights, and big dots, and other types of sights to enhance visibility, enhance accuracy via better sight picture refinement, and the most common, to make up for too many candles on your birthday cake. In my experience, none of the solutions really fix the problem for anything outside of common CCW shoot the mugger distances (where you don't need sights in the first place!!).
To hit, you need to do a number of things. First of course is get the pistol pointed toward the threat. Next is to refine that point if necessary. Again, for precise shots close up, and for long shots, a refinement of the "point" will be needed. That refinement is a blend of the ability to see the target, the ability to see the sights (front AND rear), and the ability to discern sights from target.
See the target but cannot see the sights or index them on target = miss
See the target, see the sights, but cannot index them on target = miss
See target, see sights, index sights on target = hit
Miss one of the three points: Seeing target, seeing sights, indexing sights, and you will miss.
If you cannot see the front sight well, you can add enhnacements to the fron sight and see it better, but if you can't index that sight well on a target, you still won't be able to hit it.
The answer, is to add a red dot optic such as the Aimpoint, J-Point, Trijicon Red Dot, or Docter style sights. The jury is still out on which one will do what we need to do. That coupled with regular glasses (not your special reading shooting glasses) that you can see the target with will solve the hitting problem.
Red dot sights allow you to see the target, plus see the dot in the same focal plane. As well, it is relatively easy to index that red dot onto the target. All of that equals a big H-I-T. To those who disdain technology I will say that our troops are almost exclusively using them and have been for nearly a decade with no issues. Sure its nice to be able to use your iron sights, but if you cannot physically and visually do that, then your only viable option, if your goal is to use the rifle to its utmost utility, is to use a red dot sight.
We add red dot sights to rifles all the time and nobody thinks that is out of line. So, if one has the economic wherewithall, and the desire to extend his abilities, why should it be a problem to add one to a pistol? Short answer - it is not.
So to continue with the experiment, I mounted an old H-1 Micro on a Glock slide. First impressions....it seems a small overall package for what I expected. The pistol is a little top heavy compared to a non-Aimpoint Glock, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal really in terms of handling.
I modified an Archangel by cutting away whatever was in the way, and found that appendix carry doesn't change as the sight will not protrude or print, being in a better hidden position that perhaps in other types of carry. Yes, my intention is to be able to carry this. If I cannot, I may as well use a rifle.
Presentations to point are no different. Here is the thing...if the presentation is not perfect, you will not pick up the dot right away...perhaps a training issue. Still...if you see bad guy in your optics tube, you are good to go. Or...if you see bad guy surrounding your tube, you are also good to go. This is an extension of the caveman Eotech and Meat&Metal Concepts we already teach. For close range work, nothing changes from what you do with an iron sighted pistol.
Mid Range CQB stuff (7 yards - 10 yards) you can simple shoot through the scope...in other words, if you see bad guy in the scope, you shoot regardless of whether you've found the dot or not.
For Close range CQB stuff (3 to 5 yards) you can use the outline of the scope like a caveman eotech and simply shoot when the target surrounds the optic.
I see this as best for longer shots, or precise close shots (head shots on a partially hidden adversary for example)...or a few other applications to include extreme low light usage. Adding this to a Glock with a rail will give you the most complete low light, combat pistol possible. Add a happy stick and you have something to put on the nightstand. Take off the happy stick and light and you can carry it as a CCW.
One thing about the red dot Micro that is not seen as much with irons is the POA/POI and hold over-under issues. With Irons, you expect eyeball shots at a certain distance...maybe 7 yards, and after that...center of mass. That is a result of the coincidence of POA-POI at one given point. I basically stood off at about ten yards and zeroed the Micro. I was shooting at 1" dots and was hitting easily. A little closer and I have the sight offset issues we normally see with a rifle. Not a big issue but you do need to be aware of it.
Another aspect of this experiment has been to send a slide to David Bowie of Bowie Tactical. When I get it back we will add a Trijicon Red Dot and re-examine the system. The red dot eliminates the need to align two small sights and a target as all the visual input is one the same sighting/focal plane. It is a very big short cut. As well the dot stands out against everything far better than any sights.
I am not 100% on this yet, but I like it and will continue to work with it. It may be a big advance in this area....we will see.
To Comment On This please visit
http://www.warriortalk.com
-
Long thought process to compare the optic vs. iron without a single mention of laser grips which would seem to add to every Pro and eliminate a few Cons in the debate.
-
There was a smith who relieved the top of Glocks to mount the Doktor red dot and it was nice work. Installing the CT is an easier way to go and there would be no mods to a holster. It even improves the grip angle on a Glock. Breathtaking is the only way to describe the advances we see in technology.
-
I find lasers to be distracting with their shakiness at long range... Red dot definitely more confidence inspiring when shooting long range. Just more natural for me I guess..... or perhaps I meed to lay off on he coffee! ;D
Regards,
Scott
-
I think the real question is does long range accuracy matter for SD? If I want 1" groups at 25 yards, I'm not going to use a sub compact. Most (not all) of the scenarios where I can see myself engaging at that range would call for a 12 gauge or AR. Not to say it couldn't happen, just for civilian SD, the mugger 15 feet away is the likely scenario. I wouldn't put a clunky, high dollar scope I will probably never need on a carry piece. If anything I would go laser. If I were open carrying as a cop or soldier, I might give a different answer.
FQ13
-
I can see that an optic might make it easier to make a head shot at 25 yards but that not the mission for my CCW pistol.
I could probably greatly increase my hit ratio with an optic at 50 or 100 yards with pistol but I would prefer to manuever either away or closer to the threat.
It will be interesting to see what his results are.
-
We had a topic on long range SD shooting a while back.
The example that was used was launching a boat you and your SD pistol are at the boat when your wife, parking the truck and trailer 50-100 yards away is confronted by a situation. The question was, can you make the shot, or are you a helpless witness ?
I'm not commenting one way or another, I'm just repeating something I remember reading.
-
We had a topic on long range SD shooting a while back.
The example that was used was launching a boat you and your SD pistol are at the boat when your wife, parking the truck and trailer 50-100 yards away is confronted by a situation. The question was, can you make the shot, or are you a helpless witness ?
I'm not commenting one way or another, I'm just repeating something I remember reading.
My wife would light the mope up with her own 642! She tends to zipper the target low to high so it going to really really hurt.
A shot from 50-100 yards from a drifting boat? I can't make that shot with a pistol with people moving. I might put one into the truck and see what happens.
-
I understand that most SD scenarios are at bad breath distances. Point shooting and sights don't get used often. The Docter optic in Saurez's pictures is super compact. Even Gabe admits that the actual advantage withthe red dot is for fast moving targets and precission mid to long range shots. Getting a proper sight picture under stress with a moving target with a pistol is difficult at best. But there isn't always a long gun handy...
Saurez definitely is not a tech junkie so if he is looking more closely at it then it than I for one can't wait to see what the verdict is.....
Just my 2cents...
Scott
-
So let me get this str8, you advise because of your "contractor" friend that "says' they run optics on their fighting pistols to do what? First of all I call bull shit on this. No one runs optics on fighting pistols. outside the realm of iron sites there are things called "rifles" . So unless I'm missing something ...............and besides as far as WT goes , I'm not drinking the cool aid.
-
So let me get this str8, you advise because of your "contractor" friend that "says' they run optics on their fighting pistols to do what? First of all I call bull shit on this. No one runs optics on fighting pistols. outside the realm of iron sites there are things called "rifles" . So unless I'm missing something ...............and besides as far as WT goes , I'm not drinking the cool aid.
2 things, I ain't "advising sh!t. I'm simply posting something I found interesting.
2nd, If you read the damned article you would see that very few people OUTSIDE OF GAMES, ARE using pistol optics so ,unlike you, Suarez is keeping an open mind and looking into it.
-
I glady invite any of these folks from Warrior talk to an USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge match....with or without their red dot equipped pistols.
-
2 things, I ain't "advising sh!t. I'm simply posting something I found interesting.
2nd, If you read the damned article you would see that very few people OUTSIDE OF GAMES, ARE using pistol optics so ,unlike you, Suarez is keeping an open mind and looking into it.
Been there and done that Tom, most of what you hear or believe on WT is BS. And no one is using optics on their fighting pistols. Gabe and his little tag along doggies are just wannabees. There are a few people on his forum that stay because they make MONEY . FROM THE ASSOCIATION. get over it and move on. I thought you were more perceptive than this.
-
So let me get this str8, you advise because of your "contractor" friend that "says' they run optics on their fighting pistols to do what? First of all I call bull shit on this. No one runs optics on fighting pistols. outside the realm of iron sites there are things called "rifles" . So unless I'm missing something ...............and besides as far as WT goes , I'm not drinking the cool aid.
Try going to Warriortalk.com and just read what Suarez has to say or do a search for Gabe Suarez on Youtube or even better read some of his stuff... before you start with the flaming... If Suarez says someone is a "good to go" guy, he's a pretty serious dude. I personally think Gabe is one of the best and most realistic tactical trainers out there for about any type of combat...
Scott
-
In fact, as an LA area cop he actually has experience with shooting incidents.
Never mind LovemyXDs, 2How is a pinhead sometimes, I think it's called "selective reading".
-
Cmon people, no body believes Gabes BS and hype . I was banned there for putting forth my believes. so go and drink , and have a great time. Find a good forum like one that has real world people there. ICCF.
-
Both Tyler AND 2How bad mouthing the site ? May I should check it out.
-
Both Tyler AND 2How bad mouthing the site ? May I should check it out.
Do want you want pal ,WT is all about money and power. Yeah he was a street cop, you might want to check into that;. lots of better men than him wont associate with him.
-
I think what they're refering to is Suarez's conviction for fraud some years back and spending a year or so in LA lockup for pleading guilty. Santa Monica cop from a quick google.....
Other than that, don't know shite about him. How he can own a firearm being a convicted felon is the question. Maybe a misdemeanor?
-
I think what they're refering to is Suarez's conviction for fraud some years back and spending a year or so in LA lockup for pleading guilty. Santa Monica cop from a quick google.....
Other than that, don't know shite about him. How he can own a firearm being a convicted felon is the question. Maybe a misdemeanor?
He plead guilty to a misdemeanor, was fined, and spent 8 months in jail. Here's the link to the story:
http://www.smdp.com/134687.112116body.lasso?lookyear=2002&lookmonth=7
Go to 7/17/2002 and look on page 6.
-
2How should probably change his quote on his signature...
;D
-
Again I will refer to the gospels according to John (Moses) Browning.
4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.
5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so
will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
No truer words have been spoken. As for the arguing part, there's no reason to argue. Let them do as they wish..simply make a polite statement that the good thing about America is that everyone is free to protect themselves as they see fit, and continue mission..because you can't change the mind of a mall ninja.
Please reference the last sentence in verse 5. there's nothing you can do about this..you have to allow nature (and darwin) to take it's course.
Just thank your maker that you're not this dumb.
_________________
"What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!"
-
I always like reading Suarez newsletter and own a book of his.
There are two reasons I would like to take a course from him: movement and distance.
Movement. Suarez likes movment right from the start. The older stand and deliver training never made any sense to me. Did he "invent"it? Hell no! But he was smart enough to incorporate it. Lots of instructors do now.
Distance. The first bit of training I did with a handgun completely ignored contact distance encounters. If they mentioned it at all the solution was the Speed Rock. You stab me, I shoot you, that just stunk. I guess if your Floyd Mayweather Jr. you might get away with it. Force on Force just rubs your nose in how silly that was. Going hands on to gain time and distance makes sense.
Did he invent it? Hell no but he was smart enough to embrace it.
Using knives and sticks for weapons in close, same same.
The AK as a weapon system, same same.
He teaches fighting and thats what I'm interested in, not gaming. Sorry but an IPSC match is not an example of any known fight.
I would like to take a course with Janich and Pincus for the same reasons. Fighting at bad breath distance. They incorporate what they learn from other folks into the way they teach. Even with as much knowlage as they have, always a student.
A self promoting firearms instructor??? How do you think they pay their bills. Who self promoted more than Jeff Cooper? Does it mean he wasn't an excellant teacher?
-
Just an FYI...Youtube search results for "krav maga":
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=krav+maga&search_type=&aq=0&oq=krav
and search results for "eskrima":
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eskrima&search_type=&aq=f
-
ratcatcher wrote:
Sorry but an IPSC match is not an example of any known fight.
If you can create a competitive venue or a shooting organization that is a better representation or simulation of a gun fight, I will be first in line to join your new organization.
from my little Red Book of Knowledge, ol' Douggie MacArthur said:
On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory.
-
I think lasers are more usable at this point, and I have gone through the unfortunate transition, from great eyes to very sorry eyes, I still feel confident with irons to 15 yrd making head shots, but cannot hit 10 rings or x's at 25 on purpose. Optics when they are usable, like the rifle, I do use, sometimes I don't like it, but it works when I can't. It sucks to loose your eyesight, but today we have a lot more options. It is better to hit with a crutch than miss with a boulder.
God bless you young sons who can still see.
I hated unlimited, until I could not see the front sight and the target at the same time. I hope not, but probably, your time will come.
-
I just turned 38, so yeah, my time will come too.
Since I do shoot USPSA, I am trying to get my duckies in line or to grease the wheels, for when forty-itis does set in, I will have a high-zoot open pistola to shoot.
-
I just turned 38, so yeah, my time will come too.
Since I do shoot USPSA, I am trying to get my duckies in line or to grease the wheels, for when forty-itis does set in, I will have a high-zoot open pistola to shoot.
Tyler,
I can vouch for M25 on his comments about age. I turned 41 in December and I noticed the other day that I had to extend my arm some when reading- need to get glasses. It was further confirmed on the range when I would shoot extra shots into a target at distance because I wasn't sure about the placement; that's also trusting the sights but that's another story.... ;) And finally, when scoring the targets, I was having trouble seeing them if they were about 15 yards out....I went to the optometrist (a.k.a. "Eye Doctor"), who is also a shooter, he fixed me up with two prescriptions- one for everyday use and one for the range. I'll be using Rudy Rydon's with the insert, which I'm totally stoked about. With the new prescription, I'm 20/15.
So put some money aside for a good pair of glasses in about five years, 'cause you'll need 'em..... ;D
-
ratcatcher wrote:
If you can create a competitive venue or a shooting organization that is a better representation or simulation of a gun fight, I will be first in line to join your new organization.
from my little Red Book of Knowledge, ol' Douggie MacArthur said:
Tyler,
Try a Polite Society Match.
No run through, reactive life size targets, short sweet senerios. 100 point down for hits on a non-threat.
Look up the NTI or Rangemaster Mid Winter Tactical Conference.
Shooting Gallery covered both during the first two seasons.
You would really enjoy them. Great training at the events as well.
-
I was banned there for putting forth my believes....
Ding, ding, ding.
Sour grapes, eh?
Gabe is a top-notch guy, and I say that as someone who has spent decades as an armed civie keeping up on training and who has gone to many different schools. You don't have to agree with everything he says, but you would do well to pause and think about what he says.
Keep the bruised ego and pettiness to a dull roar. "Better to keep your mouth shut and thought a fool than to open it and be proven a fool."
-
Ding, ding, ding.
Sour grapes, eh?
Gabe is a top-notch guy, and I say that as someone who has spent decades as an armed civie keeping up on training and who has gone to many different schools. You don't have to agree with everything he says, but you would do well to pause and think about what he says.
Keep the bruised ego and pettiness to a dull roar. "Better to keep your mouth shut and thought a fool than to open it and be proven a fool."
Welcome Drift!
Very eloquently argued.
Regards,
Scott
-
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/01/the-new-trijicon-rmr-a.html
When I heard that Trijicon had redesigned the RMR to include an adjustment mechanism I got a little worried. The main reason I had looked at the Trijicon RMR in the first place for handgun applications was that it had no adjustments or on-off switches to get messed up in daily concealed carry. I asked our Trijicon representative about this at SHOT Show. His answer was to reach in his bag and give me one to work with and test. That is what I like about these guys...they put their money where their mouth is.
RM07_additional_thumb So I brought the RMR home and promptlyinstalled it on one of our in-house TSD Glocks. This one was an all Lone Wolf weapon slide and frame. It was worked over by our TSD staff and finished the slide in desert tan. The RMR popped on easily and tightened down with no issues. TSD is the first to ever mount one of these on a handgun.
First order of things was to get used to how the unit worked. On the left side and right side are strong pressure pads to increase and decrease dot intensity. The dot size has been reduced to 6.5 MOA. I set the brightness level to work with the ambient light and holstered the empty pistol. I worked through my hour long dry practice session. Drawing from our Seraphim holster, the dot intensity did not change at all, showing that the pressure needed to change the settings is more than what may be likely in holster carry. Nice.
IMG_1120 That done we worked with the settings. There are several and the brightest setting is quite bright that even in the strong mile high AZ sun, it was sufficiently bright.
The highest setting will use up battery life very quickly so its not wise toleave it at that setting. The lower settings are sufficient for low light use, and even workable with our night vision devices.
Nice again.
The Trijicon site says this about the Adjustable LED:
"Developed to improve precision and accuracy with any style or caliber of weapon, the Trijicon RMR™ (Ruggedized Miniature Reflex) is designed to be as durable as the legendary ACOG. The RM06 and RM08 are LED sights powered by a standard CR2032 battery. Housed in rugged forged aluminum, the RMR is extremely tough yet lightweight. New easy-to-use adjusters with audible clicks allow for quick windage and elevation adjustments.
With eight available brightness settings, the reticle can be manually adjusted by pressing the plus or minus buttons on either side of the unit. To switch to auto adjust mode simply press both buttons simultaneously and release. To save battery life turn the optic off by pressing both buttons simultaneously and holding for 3 seconds.
The new Trijicon RMR™ is tougher than any alternative and suitable for military, law enforcement and hunting applications."
Magnification 1x
Bullet Drop Compensator No
Length (In) 45mm
Weight (oz) 1.2 oz w/Battery
Illumination Source 3V Lithium Battery
Reticle Pattern 6.5 MOA Dot
Day Reticle Color Red
Night Reticle Color Red
Bindon Aiming Concept n
Adjustment @ 100 yards (clicks/in) 1.0
Housing Material Forged Aluminum
We should be getting our first delivery of these in a few weeks -
TRIJICON ADJUSTABLE RMR
-
I won't jump in the fight here but I do want to say that I want my XD40sc with an RMR sight. Lasers let people know you are there, red dots don't, which is why you won't see a lot of lasers on M-4's in Iraq unless the guy carrying is an entry specialist.
I remember a lot of people back in the 80's saying that red dots were toy and junk with no legitimate purpose, just as I heard people in the 70's bitching that scopes were toys for dilettantes and no good for a fighting rifle, heck some moss-backs back then told me semi-automatic pistols were junk and you needed a good revolver so you would have 6 sure shots.
Time and innovation move on, just leave the jackasses braying in the dust and get on with your life.
-
Just saw a posting from MadOgre about shot show and shooting an RMR pistol
"So here I am, saying that Gabe was right. I’ve had to do that before and I’m not afraid to admit that I was wrong. I like this concept on a bigger, full sized guns, duty type guns. It adds no weight that I could tell, the RMR is that light. And even if it did, who cares? You are going to hang a pistol light off of it too, right? Of course you are."
Guess the idea is spreading
-
Another interesting article from Warrior talk
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/11/-on-killing-or-not-killing.html
On Killing (or not killing)
A recent thread on a state gun forum I frequent brought this to my mind. The poster had put up a video clip of Gabe from his Force on Force DVD. The particular part that got the most comments was Gabe saying that as part of your mindset you had to be willing to kill. Of course this brought out the usual responses of being ready to “stop the threat”, not kill. I did not immediately jump on those people. Why? Because that is how I used to think as well. I think using the following couple of experiences from my days as a LEO, you will be able to see why I made the transformation in my thinking from the pc “shoot to stop” to my current mindset of being willing (under justified circumstances) to kill.
We will start with the man with a knife. It was a normal day, which meant I was chasing someone. I did that a lot, drugs, B&E, warrants, robbery, mostly drugs though. I don’t remember exactly what I was chasing this youth for, but as I gained on him, I gave him a shove which sent him face forward into the ground. Well sort of like in the Johnny Cash song, he went down but came up with a knife. Fortunately for me, as he went down, I had stopped and drawn my Sig 226. Of course I had also planted myself in a good Weaver just like I had learned in the academy and stood and ordered him to drop the knife. Yes, he was well within 21 feet. For not the first or last time, God was on my side and after a few seconds that seemed like minutes he dropped the knife. A recurring theme here is that yes, my tactics weren’t the best although I did act as trained, beyond that I did not shoot him, because I didn’t want to kill him. (More about that later.) Backup arrived, we took him into custody, and the shift went on. The scenario, and whether I did the right thing by not shooting, nagged at me though.
Another incident that really got me thinking started out with a call of, man with a gun, officer needs assistance. It was wintertime so I sped to the scene as fast as I could on the snow covered roads. (Which was a little faster then I should have been going.) The address was familiar to me as I had been there a number of times for domestic calls before. As I made the 90 degree right turn onto the side road, I slid into the ditch, but somehow hit hard enough to bounce out and end up pretty much in front of the scene. Upon exiting the cruiser I located the officer I was there to assist standing about 5 feet in front of the all too familiar suspect. The officer was standing in the open, his pistol drawn and pointed at the suspect who was holding a double barrel shotgun in what we would call low ready, pointed in the general direction of the officer. In my infinite wisdom, I run up and stood next to the officer drawing my own sidearm and pointing in on the suspect. What ensued were a couple of minutes of me talking to the suspect and trying to convince him to lay the gun down. I remember starting to squeeze through the long double action pull of the Sig 9mm when he finally put down the shotgun. Again, bad tactics? Yes, but more than that.
So what do these two incidents have in common with each other besides the obvious tactical issues? If you said an unwillingness to kill on my part, you would be correct. The reason for this could be multifaceted, but mostly came down to two things. First, the constant drumbeat from the department and my trainers of liability, and by extension shoot to stop the threat. The other thing has to do with the certain moral and ethical viewpoints that we individually hold. Some might say, what is the problem, both situations worked out okay. Yes, they did, but not because of what I did right, but more because of luck or God’s blessings. Surely the department was happy with the outcome. Let’s face it; shootings are nothing but problems as far as they are concerned. In both cases it would have been easy to justify taking the shot, and these days I would. What changed? My mindset.
It became evident to me, that to not display the hesitation that could easily get you killed, you have to yourself be willing to kill. Is killing the threat your ultimate goal? No, it is not, but you have to come to grips with the realization that stopping the threat as quickly as possible may very well result in that threats death. You are responsible for defending your life, or more importantly the life of your loved ones. Don’t let someone else slow you down by casing you to constantly be worried about lawyers or legal outcomes. These things need to be thought of ahead of time but have no bearing on that moment of decision when you have to make YOUR life or death choice.
The other problem to tackle may be tougher. If you were brought up as I was, in the church and led to believe the good guys never shoot first, it can be hard to come to grips to what I am advocating here. For me it came down to remembering that the fifth commandment is “Thou shall not murder”, not “Though shall not kill”. It also may take some reminding to yourself that you indeed are fighting the righteous fight and were put into this position by the other guy, not because you chose to be there. So get over your hesitation, train hard, and remember, you may have to kill to win the fight.
Michael Swisher
Suarez International Staff Instructor
-
Well, you've heard me say that here before...just not with so many words.
-
Well, you've heard me say that here before...just not with so many words.
Yes I have, but I have been taken to task by certain forum members for saying the same thing .