The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: usmcdadx2 on January 13, 2010, 11:40:56 AM
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I'm looking at adding a .45 to my collection, one of the guns I'm considering is the EAA Witness Match.
Can anyone tell me how the size of the current Match compares to the CZ pistols. I like the things I've read about this pistol but no dealer in my area stocks one. They tell me that it has the same feel and ergonomics as the CZ SP01 but "just a tad bigger". Nobody seems to be able/willing to quantify "a tad".
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My personal opinion is that if you say you have a .45 it means 1911.
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Been there, done that and yes I like 1911 types but I want to try something different. Sorry to all the Glock fans but I just don't like them. I like Ruger but none of their .45 offerings fit my hand the way I like. In the price range I'm willing to spend: the guns still on the table are the Witness Match and combat/SD oriented pistols like the S&W M&P, Springfield's XD and the FNP45-USG. Of the later three the FNP fit my hand and shooting style best. For some reason I keep coming back to the SAO Witness wanting to know more about it. The gun I choose won't be a CC gun, rather it will be for range use, some informal high power 3 gun with friends and "just because I want it".
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They do use cute models in their TV commercials.....much better looking than Todd Jarrett!
;D
Jesse Abbate does make me want to go out and buy a Block though... ;)
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Jesse Abbate does make me want to go out and buy a Block though... ;)
She is easy on the eyes even with a Block. ;D
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I have the EAA Witness Match in .40. grip is fantastic, can be carried cocked and locked, very, very accurate and reliable. Ported barrel makes it a real "ripper" on the steel plates. Wonderfinish cleans to new looking.
Rear sight is very high on mine, but it's a little older version.
Seems the new version has improved the factory sight profile. Price is good also. Here's one I found:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=108476
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/54978.jpg)
You got to post gun porn whenever you can, we just kinda crave it around here... ;D
This one is mine, had a flyer in the string, but it was the ammo. Trying to find an un-ported barrel, to have also.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/competitiontarget001.jpg)
In 45 it would be a nice get, although I read good things about the M+P 45 also..and I'm partial to those also. ;)
Welcome to DRTV.
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I was speaking with a rep for S&W.
He said to get the midsize S&W M&P .45 over the full size. He said it was more accurate and the recoil was easier to control. I don't have any reason to doubt him but I haven't shot the M&P in .45 yet.
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The EAA is a nice gun. It's a bit out of the price range you talked about but another big .45 you should look at is the CZ97b. Big beautiful 45.
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I've had a Witness .45 for about 16 years now. It's fired well over a thousand rounds, never a single misfire even with cheap crap plinking ammo. It was once dropped out of a giant truck (about 10 feet!) down onto the pavement and it scuffed the blueing a little in one very small spot. Not a single other problem! Picked it up, it was fine. That was probably 400 rounds ago.
Perfect ergonomics, built like a German Tiger tank. Reliability that makes a Timex look like a Chinese tinker toy. Mec-gar makes the magazines for them (GREAT quality!).
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BM, You DO know, don't you, that the Tigers Maybach engine was crap ?
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BM, You DO know, don't you, that the Tigers Maybach engine was crap ?
Should have stuck with the Duetz/Benz.
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Thank you all for your input, even the off topic, on target, comments about Ms. Abbate. From the feedback I've received here and elsewhere, except for the "when you've said 1911/Glock, you've said it all" folks; it seems like this is a really good firearm for the money. So far the best size answer I've received about the current frame size is "it is bigger than the CZ75 and smaller than the CZ97, unless you've got girlyman hands, you'll like it". Mine are closer to meathooks so I guess it would be ok. So now I'm down to chosing between "combat" oriented or somewhat tuned SOA range runner. I like both options but can only justify one.
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Of course we will be expecting porn and a full range report.
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I forgot to mention, the pros/cons, of a ported barrel. My EAA is ported; great for the range, no question. But if your intent is a double-duty SD pistol, ported is not the way to go.
There are several posts about ported barrels for SD and the consensus is "ports" can add "cons" to a SD situation. If you get a ported frame, however, you can get a standard barrel, and have both.
I'll get a standard barrel very shortly.
Just my humble opinion.
Looking forward to pics and report.
tw
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Thank you all for your input, even the off topic, on target, comments about Ms. Abbate. From the feedback I've received here and elsewhere, except for the "when you've said 1911/Glock, you've said it all" folks; it seems like this is a really good firearm for the money. So far the best size answer I've received about the current frame size is "it is bigger than the CZ75 and smaller than the CZ97, unless you've got girlyman hands, you'll like it". Mine are closer to meathooks so I guess it would be ok. So now I'm down to chosing between "combat" oriented or somewhat tuned SOA range runner. I like both options but can only justify one.
I didn't mean for my comment to sound that way, just that if you are getting the higher capacity of a non 1911 it seems you might as well go with a smaller diameter round like the 9mm. By the same token I would not consider a 1911 in anything BUT .45 ( best of both worlds Para P 14 ;D )
It IS a nice looking pistol though.
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Tom, I don't know you...but I didn't mean to imply that I included you in any negative category. I understood what you were saying and respected that you understood I desired a non 1911 platform. The "you've said it all" groups were entirely not part of this forum and each camp seems unable to accept that there are any viable options to their chosen platform.
TW, thanks for the insight on the ported barrel. I don't/can't carry outside the home or range (thanks WI). My primary home SD choices are a 12 ga pump and a 5.56AR stoked with TAP so a ported barrel wouldn't be to much of a con. Are all EAA Match platforms ported? I did not see that noted in the literature I got.
What ever firearm I choose I will post my opinions after I have some range time.
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Are all EAA Match platforms ported? I did not see that noted in the literature I got.
Not at all, it's just an option. The one's I've seen have been mostly non-ported, but the "race" gun varieties are certainly out there.
It's a great 45 platform, and you won't be disappointed.
Here's the compact version out.
http://www.eaa-guns.com/item/44634_EAA_Hand_Guns_Pistols_EAA_WITNESS_45ACP_POLY_LI.aspx
full size, I'm starting to like this more and more... 8)
http://www.eaa-guns.com/item/67641_EAA_Hand_Guns_Pistols_EAA_WITNESS_MATCH_45ACP_1.aspx
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Just my .02 I like the FNP45 my dad has one a it shoots great. Its accurate and it seems like its built to take and give an ass whipping.
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As far as the frame size, my wife is the primary user of our "Witness". She likes it because the ergonomics of the grip are excellent, and the weight of the full size all steel frame makes it easier to control than my Glock. No, not all the "Match" EAA's are ported. At least ours isn't. But it's pretty old. Don't know about the new ones. If anybody's thinking concealed carry WOW! It's a big, HEAVY gun for that! Otherwise I still think it's overall design and features make it outstanding. On a 25 yard range the EAA has never failed to outshoot, or at least shoot as well as any other .45 we've compared it to (Para Ord., Colt's, Glock's, even a Gold Cup). Only the Gold Cup has matched it with several people trading back and forth trying their best with each gun. It's just a lot to carry IMO.
For the Tiger's... Poopy engine or no, they put a woop'in on the shermans back in the day. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ocpCPZBnM&feature=related
Well, I guess the US "higher ups" DID have their strategies... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igp3k7z-YcQ&feature=related
:(
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Again thanks to all for their input. At this point I'm leaning about 70/30 towards the Witness. For my intended use it will do everything I want at a lower price even after I order additional mags from EAA. I kind of like the all steel, SAO and tuned action. But on the FNP side... full ambi, built like a tank and accessory rail. Maybe I'm going to have to find a way to justify buying one now and one later. I did finally locate both a CZ75 and CZ97 that I could handle but not shoot, for my hands at least great ergos.
TW, the match link you included for the Match is the exact item I am considering, an added plus is I live very close to one of the company's physical storefronts so I would not have to pay an additional transfer fee to have it delivered.
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Our Witness came bran new, out of the box with 2 Mec-Gar magazines... You can buy them most anywhere.
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OK enough with the wishy washy can't make up my mind, um...stuff. I'm going to do the paperwork and place the order for the Witness after work today. I'll let you know what I think once it comes in and I get some range time. Thanks for your input.
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I was just about to say, "Stop asking questions and just BUY that puppy"!!!
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OK enough with the wishy washy can't make up my mind, um...stuff. I'm going to do the paperwork and place the order for the Witness after work today. I'll let you know what I think once it comes in and I get some range time. Thanks for your input.
Looking forward to the upcoming pics and report. Congratulations!
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Your gonna love it. AK47 of handguns. With accuracy! ;)
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So, I picked up my new Witness last night. First impression is that this is a very nice firearm. The overall fit and finish is great, the frame/slide mating is tight but smooth, the controls are easy to reach and operate, it fits my hand great, points naturally and I pick up the sights almost instinctively. The trigger pull is very clean and crisp. I don't have a scale to measure for sure but I would be very surprised if the pull is more than 3 pounds. Fieldstripping to clean off the shipping grease was a no tool process, took all of 30 seconds and it went back together just as quick. The only downside so far is that it only comes with one magazine but for this price and my immediate needs I can live with that; and the neat little pocket cleaning kit that was included was 9mm not 45ACP. I seldom use the kits that come with guns but I may call EAA on this just as a QC issue. If this thing shoots as well as reviews indicate I think I've got a winner. Now I just need to find some more ammo and range time.
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Only picture I've got so far.
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The two-tone looks sharp.
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So, I picked up my new Witness last night. First impression is that this is a very nice firearm. The overall fit and finish is great, the frame/slide mating is tight but smooth, the controls are easy to reach and operate, it fits my hand great, points naturally and I pick up the sights almost instinctively. The trigger pull is very clean and crisp. I don't have a scale to measure for sure but I would be very surprised if the pull is more than 3 pounds. Fieldstripping to clean off the shipping grease was a no tool process, took all of 30 seconds and it went back together just as quick. The only downside so far is that it only comes with one magazine but for this price and my immediate needs I can live with that; and the neat little pocket cleaning kit that was included was 9mm not 45ACP. I seldom use the kits that come with guns but I may call EAA on this just as a QC issue. If this thing shoots as well as reviews indicate I think I've got a winner. Now I just need to find some more ammo and range time.
Israeli special forces knew what they were doing when they set the design standards for it. ;)
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Nice toy, how soon for the range report?
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The nearest range is only open on weekends during the winter months so I'm hoping for this coming weekend. I toyed with going out last weekend but it's an outdoor range and, once wind chill was factored in, it was about 5 below outside... so I wussed out.
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OK so I got to the range on Saturday, still cold(about 6 or 8 with wind chill), but I had to try my new range toy out. I decided to start at the 10 yard line. For starters the sights that seemed so easy to pick up in the house didn't acquire quite so well outdoors. I think this is less of a sight problem and more "old eyes", I'll try changing to a fiber optic front post later. Due to the cold and wind I only ran through one box of Federal 230 FMJ ammo before I called it a day. The gun functioned perfectly every round fed, fired and ejected without a hitch. If anything I think the ejection is a bit too positive, this thing really threw the empties. As for accuracy I planned to load and shoot 5 at a time both from a braced rest and offhand to see how well it grouped. That went out the window with the first 5 shots. At ten yards all were low and right. We’re talking I didn’t even hit the 3’x3’ backerboard on the target. So I blew 26 of my rounds tinkering with the sights until I felt they were good enough to put up a clean target, a 12” circle with a 2” bull. I fired 2, 5 shot groups from my rest with one group just to the left of the bull and the other, 1st round in the red and the rest of the group just higher and right. The left group measures just a bit over 1.5” and the right group came in at just under 2”. My next 5 shot group was seated, offhand, slow fire and this gave me two one hole groups; 3 on the 4” ring and 2 slightly higher and centered in the 8”, 9 ring.. For my last 9 shots I loaded them all and fired as fast as I could get the sights back on target with all of the shots being in or touching the 9 ring. I gotta say this kind of accuracy from an unfamiliar gun and frozen hands is easily as “good as I get”. The only possible issue I noticed is that there seems to be a bit more trigger pretravel after the range session than before, I’ll have to watch to see if this is due to breaking it in or if the pretravel screw isn’t locked in place.
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6 or 8 with wind chill? :o Dude,.....
Looks like the sight adjustment worked for you. Hope it warms up to maybe above freezing for you next time.
Thanks for the picture. That looks like combat accuracy, for sure, and will probably be better when your hands aren't frozen...
tw
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So was that really Dude or more like DUMBA..., by the time I was done it felt more like the latter. The merc. temp was about 12 and if you were out of the wind it didn't seem all that bad but out on the firing line with the wind straight in my face was a whole different kettle of fish. Like I said, new gun and conditions factored in, I'm really happy with this purchase.
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It was really Dude..... ;D As in hardcore shooter dude... I used to play golf on days when I had the course to my self and swung like the stay puff marshmellow man, and wondered why I was by myself out here??? ???
The wind, the temps in the 30's,? wind chill in the teens? Those sissy's in the clubhouse drinking Irish Coffee....
I understand....
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Been there, done that and around here you get to add so many leaves on the ground you can lose your ball in the middle of the fairway, boy does that suck.
Other than the cold, the range was pretty cool because I had the whole firing line to myself. During the winter if it's a nice day you usually have to wait your turn at any of the 15 yard or less stations plus if there were a lot of people out, the range officer would have chewed me out for my final string. Years ago they had problems with idiots who didn't understand recoil management sending rounds astray under rapid fire so now they have a 5 second between shots rule. They usually let me get away with a shot a second but they draw the line at anything more. I'm a long way from the speed of a competionion shooter but I was easily shooting faster than they normally allow.