The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: ericire12 on January 13, 2010, 12:42:27 PM
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Not sure if this has always been their policy or if I am just noticing it, but..... I was in Academy today and noticed that all their
"assualt style weapons" modern sporting rifles were wrapped with papers that labeled them as "only available for sale to individuals at least 21 years of age" -- even the dedicated .22lr ARs and the Remington 597 VTR (just a dressed up 597) were also designated as 21 and older only. ??? ??? ???
*It is also important to note that this is occurring in a state where the legal age to buy a rifle/shotgun is 18, AND where the legal age to posses a handgun was just lowered to 18:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=1864.0
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=2303.0
Now, I know that this is probably just their lawyers run a muck and that they are probably just trying to keep themselves free from litigation (although, if manufacturers are immune then I would assume they would be too), but this is without a doubt clear cut infringement. I guess if it has a pistol grip now then it is considered a pistol ::) Good grief. This is outrageous!
Ranger Up and give these guys a piece of your mind:
http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=company/contact_form
Then give the NRA an ear full too:
https://www.nrahq.org/contact.asp
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They're probably being cheap and lazy as well. This way they do not have to keep track of how old you are and where you live and what the rules are for that location.
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In Minnesota an "assault weapon" falls under the catagory of handgun, so you must be 21 and have a permit to aquire. I thought that might be your issue, but then I read the rest ...
Tom - Bring your rope! We have a visit to make!
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In Minnesota an "assault weapon" falls under the catagory of handgun, so you must be 21 and have a permit to aquire. I thought that might be your issue, but then I read the rest ...
Tom - Bring your rope! We have a visit to make!
No Problem, I'll use the rope to hang the buckets of tar and feathers on the rail I'm bringing >:(
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so a company has to sell you something? since when?
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so a company has to sell you something? since when?
Can you say "age discrimination" ?
I bet your lawyer can.
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That is actually perfectly legal. Saying you are to old on the other hand would be illegal.( funny how that works)
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Sports Authority has a similar policy, they won't let any one under 18 handle a firearm. Even if your their with your 11 year old to buy a youth model rifle. By their rules you can't even see if it fits your kid or not. I quit shopping there even though their prices were the best around by 10 or 20 bucks under the cheapest shop in my area. And I have quite a few shops in my area! ;D
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so a company has to sell you something? since when?
Explain to me/us why a company that expects us to lay down our hard earned cash would think we would have no problem with putting in their own level of restrictions. I know a company in our area that did that with the number of guns a person could buy at a given time or how often they could buy. They got the message when we spoke up, and they dropped the policy. The same company also has a company policy concerning what accessories they will sell their AR's with. I don't like it, but they only offer the guns in the configuration they want to sell ... Unlike Academy who wants to sell it, but only to a certain group not defined as special by the laws they are selling under.
Short answer long ... If they want my business they had better sell to all who are legal to buy and have the currency! If they don't want to they need to get out of the business.
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Which is exactly what you should do and make sure you tell them why you feel that way.
PS there is a federal law that sates if you buy 2 or more hand guns in 10 days from a ffl, there is more paper work they have to fill out . It also has to be sent trait to the ATF. I can't really blame some one for having a policy that would make it so they don't have to do that.
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so a company has to sell you something? since when?
That is actually perfectly legal. Saying you are to old on the other hand would be illegal.( funny how that works)
You are an idiot, TAB.
"Saying that they will only sell to white people is discrimination, but saying they will not sell to black people is perfectly legal."
"Sorry, but in this town you have to be 21 to exercise your freedom of speech."
TAB, this is a clear case of infringement/disenfranchisement. If the laws say that the person is legally allowed to buy the gun, then there is no legal right for them to refuse the sale. If the law says that the 18 year old has a constitutional right, a company can not supersede that and say only people 21 and older can exercise that right. There is no basis for their policy.
It would not stand in any other scenario in retail, and it surely should not be tolerated when it involves something so precious as the 2nd amendment.
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Closest Academy is 100+ miles away and the only time I went in there the stuff they had was way over-priced.
F-em.
>:(
BASTARDS!
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F-em.
>:(
BASTARDS!
Ditto!
I wrote them a message expressing my outrage of their policy. And I told them that I would not shop there, nor would I recommend the store to anyone else.
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Which is exactly what you should do and make sure you tell them why you feel that way.
PS there is a federal law that sates if you buy 2 or more hand guns in 10 days from a ffl, there is more paper work they have to fill out . It also has to be sent trait to the ATF. I can't really blame some one for having a policy that would make it so they don't have to do that.
I can! They are collecting my hard earned cash in exchange, and they can either do the work on every gun or none!
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So some one having a policy that would avoid a crimal charge if they failed to do paper work is wrong?
Gun stores already have enough paper work... the last thing they need is more.
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The paperwork you allege is part of the job and has nothing at all to do with the topic .
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tom it was a reply to a post in this thread.
The multi hand gun purchuse forms are sent directly to the ATF. if you fail to do them, or make a mistake, not only will you personally be charged, the ffl you work for( assuming you are not the FFL holder) will also get in trouble.
Rather then taking that chance, I have np with a FFL having a policy to where they won't sell you anthoer hand gun for 10 days. besides, do you really want the ATF knowing you just bought a gun? the NCIS back ground check is not does not stay on record at the atf office. the multi hand gun form does.
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They are a private company and they do indeed have the right to adopt ANY sales policy they wish. I am guessing that the policy is intended to keep gang bangers, ATF and interested lawyers(BLOOMBERG) away. Unfortunately Academy being Texas based, the Gulf Cartel and now the separate Zetas had been sending buyers(college students, their 18-19 year old girlfriends, etc.) into Academy's in various cities to buy weapons and ammo. I am going to guess this requirement is a corporate version of CYA, because they were indeed facing intense interest from ATF, and liberal groups, about the rate of firearms from some of their stores ending up over the border. What would you do as businessman: implement a low cost age increase policy or prepare to spend millions in civil lawsuits/govt inquiries?
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TAB,
Let's compare this to my fine business: Funeral homes have been sued for cremating a body with out getting signatures from everyone in the second degree of kinship, even though the law says you only need the first degree. I have decided to avoid the chance, so even though I will do a full body burial of anyone with permission of the person with the right to control the funeral, I will not do a cremation on anyone that does not have a pre-arranged cremation authorization signed by them and witnessed by either their court appointed legal representative, their attorney or at least two first or second degree of kinship.
I am fully capable of providing any of these services, and I can do it legally, but I have decided that I am going to make the option difficult or imposible for one group based on my not wanting to do the paperwork.
As a licensed professional, am I acting ethically, or should I lose my license for putting into play my own restrictive terms?
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Thats going to depend on the laws of your state.
ethics do not equal morals.
If you were a lawyer and your client walked into your office and said: "I just killed my wife" ethicly you can't tell the police, morally I think we all agree he should.
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Thats going to depend on the laws of your state.
ethics do not equal morals.
If you were a lawyer and your client walked into your office and said: "I just killed my wife" ethicly you can't tell the police, morally I think we all agree he should.
Morally it might very well depend on the wife.
Had a guy up here did pretty much that and the Judge told him "don't do it again"
I exaggerate a little, Jury ruled self defense. But it sounds better my way ;D
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Thats going to depend on the laws of your state.
ethics do not equal morals.
If you were a lawyer and your client walked into your office and said: "I just killed my wife" ethicly you can't tell the police, morally I think we all agree he should.
I explained the laws, now just answer the damn question!
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now children...
though I disagree with their policy and it may effect whether or not I buy from them, I do agree that it is their business.. a PRIVATE owned business and so can sell to whomever they want/ or not. of course they have reasons, maybe not good ones in our eyes, but if I were the owner of a business and did not want to sell to a certain age group or whatever for reasons of convenience or even for personal reasons I would not sell to them. yes, this is probably stupid, overpaid, retarded lawyers imposing this, but the owner, board.... whatever, makes the final decision based on past experience and weighing the loss/gain of said decision. as I say, I do not agree with their policy, but I have changed banks and jobs etc... based on policies I did not agree with, so I will here. I protest with my wallet. oh yeah, I tell everyone why too!
deepwater
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I still don't know what the "multiple handgun purchase " paper work has to do with it. It sounds like BS to me but no one with an FFL has called him on it ?
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just look at how much business is going to be sent to the 'local' mom & pop gun shops. maybe this is best for the guys that are starting to feel the 'oh hell, we ain't got no $ let's sell the guns' from the poor folks that are out of work. I'm sure ol' Roy from down the street would do the paperwork and fight the damn lawsuits.
It was mentioned earlier that their prices are high. I agree. the only thing I have ever bought from them was a holster and a travel case to transport my Makerov through the airlines. I don't shop there, just drool......
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I still don't know what the "multiple handgun purchase " paper work has to do with it. It sounds like BS to me but no one with an FFL has called him on it ?
Unless they changed the laws since BHO took office. if you buy 2 hand guns with in 5days( I was wrong on the number of days) from the same ffl you have to fill out a form and send it to the ATF...
I'm sure you have heard about people in the south west having the atf show up at thier door asking about guns they have recently bought... this is how they found those people.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf
look right above part 31
the form is 3310.4
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf
M58, I don't know what the ethics are for your trade, as a biz owner, you are well with in your rights.
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I PMed you
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now children...
though I disagree with their policy and it may effect whether or not I buy from them, I do agree that it is their business.. a PRIVATE owned business and so can sell to whomever they want/ or not. of course they have reasons, maybe not good ones in our eyes, but if I were the owner of a business and did not want to sell to a certain age group or whatever for reasons of convenience or even for personal reasons I would not sell to them. yes, this is probably stupid, overpaid, retarded lawyers imposing this, but the owner, board.... whatever, makes the final decision based on past experience and weighing the loss/gain of said decision. as I say, I do not agree with their policy, but I have changed banks and jobs etc... based on policies I did not agree with, so I will here. I protest with my wallet. oh yeah, I tell everyone why too!
deepwater
Actually, there may be a case for age discrimination against Academy. Just as you cannot refuse to sell to someone because they are black, or a woman, if you're open for business to the public, you pretty much have to follow the laws.
Age discrimination is based on whether you use age to discriminate, it has nothing to do with you're too old or too young - it is using age as a determinant. So a business' "right" (? ? ? ) to sell to whomever is limited by the laws. So if you're legal in your state at 18, and Academy won't sell until you're 21 due to a "policy" - that sounds to me like prima facie age discrimination.
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I actually read all the posts up to this point. ;) ;D
My guess is that Academy Sports, being a commercial retail entity, is probably used to being sued...ya, know.. like people slipping on grapes in the produce section of some big grocery chain store and then claiming they hurt their backs...
So...my guess is that Academy Sports probably already has their own in-house legal department or they have contracted it out to some business law, firm.
So...again, just my guess, is that they ran this policy first through their legal department or legal consulting firm first before they enacted it.
If they didn't, then...well, they're dumb. slight...OKAY! Major thread drift ahead....
As far as guns in the US making it across the border and being used by the druggie gang-bangers....
I thought it was an FBI agent who was doing that:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cd2_1247694118
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D99B748G0.html
:o :o :o :o :o :o