The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Tyler Durden on January 16, 2010, 10:35:05 PM
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From some other NOT to be divulged quasi-gun related forum there is this quote:
I propose bringing every single Haitian to the U.S. for a decade, house them in our foreclosurevilles and in depopulated cities like Detroit and Las Vegas, and educate and train them. They can work out a decent government while they are here. Meanwhile, rebuild their country to First World standards and replant their forests. Then send them all home again. We would probably spend less than has been spent from 1994 to present on Haiti.
Okay...I am going to go deliberately out of my way to NOT comment or editorialize on that...just so's I don't taint my own thread here.
Just go ahead and discuss this amongst yourselves. I'll just sit back and watch and read for a while.
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A vote from the SE FL. coast? Umm....., no, and oh by the way f..k NO (M'lettes filter be darned). ;D I can deal with the Cubans, but one Haitan is one too many as far I'm concerned. Aid, yes. An earth quake can happen anywhere, and is no one's fault. Refugees? No. Haitians tend to be a very loud, obnoxious and demanding lot with a deep seated sense of entitelment. You don't see this from Bahamians, Jamaicans or Guatemalans. The Cubans are an arrogant bunch, but at least they work hard and are successful. Haitians tend to bring with them a culture of failure. Not racism, just the fact that there are cultural differences among nations and as far as I'm concerned the only good thing to come out of Haiti is Barbancourt Rhum.
FQ13 who has shot all PC street cred to hell and doesn't care.
PS f..k NO!!!!!!
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Hmmm, I'm not sure where to begin after reading that statement. Oh yeah... that is one of the dumbest things I've ever read, and that is including the steady stream of political swill out of D.C. My i.q. has now plummeted due to its infectious stupidity. When, in the future, I begin to doubt my own intelligence, I'll think back to that statement and gain new perspective. I may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but at least I emit a little light. :D
Swoop
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The comment that it would be cheaper in the long run is true up to a point, the US has been wasting aid money on the sh!thole since the Slave revolt that threw out the French in 1810 ( ish ).
It just goes to prove my point that money spent on international welfare is wasted.
What we SHOULD do, is cut them off, they will either get their act together or they will all die, either way , problem solved.
And that isn't racism because I have the same opinion about Europe, next time Germany takes France we should make them KEEP the darn place.
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Until last Tuesday, January 12, at 5:00 PM Port au Prince was a city of two million people with no drinkable water, no sanitation, insufficient schools, inadequate hospitals. Now it is a city ruined by a 7.0 earthquake
From another blog.
They forgot to mention no reliable internet, phone or power.
For background and disclosure: I have two adopted daughters from Haiti, have been to most of the places and know many of the missionaries they have shown on CNN this week, spent time in their government system. I have spent way too much time this week worrying and wondering.
It is impossible for me to put into words what a trip there was like--it was SO INTENSE you thought it had to be a movie because no place could possibly really be like this. The city scenes in the movie "Blood Diamond" are the closest I have seen, but the movie roads were MUCH better. And you could't smell the movie.
But we did see progress. There was definite improvement in gov services (power, trash disposal, etc) right before the hurricanes hit. That was a huge blow. Then the government went into a blame session. They finally were re-stabilizing. Now this.
I don't know what you do now. You can't walk away--there are a LOT of US citizens on the ground. If you try to rebuild, it is a question of whose cronies (ours, theirs, or the UN's) skim the most money off. DR doesn't even want it. Haiti is not necessarily letting their people out, even if we offered to take them. If we back out, would the UN just charge us (at cost plus) even more for when they stepped in?
I do know there are good people there. People that deserve a hand up, people that would not accept a hand out. I do know many missionaries that will stay or return within weeks to help rebuild. If we rebuilt the port, dropped of a few containers of building supplies, and got out of the way, I think good things would happen. Or at least we wouldn't spend as much to get the same results as we have now.
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Now that the hurricane season is over, for now, take some of the relief stockpiles, tents, MREs, medicine, load them up on helo's or Coast Guard ships and send them over rebuild the stock piles with the feds picking up a portion of the cost. Carriers should be there by now, that's water, limited amounts of electrical power, and medical aid. That'll keep people alive, have your boys in the UN, which are so fond of shell out there money, sarcasm, drop some of their cash and start moving bulldozers over to clear the mess. Let the Haitians figure out how, or even if, they want to rebuild their country.
Since when can you displace a people, settle them into a new home, then displace them again?
Tom, you could just let them die, which without help that'll probably happen, but that don't sit right with me, not until we know the cost of helping them, and its effectiveness. Of course if we do, they'll probably just revert back to the same society, or never change to begin with. Let's just see what we can do on the cheap. What really irks me is that I seen headlines, "Haitians anger over slow relief efforts." As though we owe them sh#%.
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I propose bringing every single Haitian to the U.S. for a decade, house them in our foreclosurevilles and in depopulated cities like Detroit and Las Vegas, and educate and train them. They can work out a decent government while they are here. Meanwhile, rebuild their country to First World standards and replant their forests. Then send them all home again. We would probably spend less than has been spent from 1994 to present on Haiti.
I don't want anyone to go through what those people are going through and the horrors that could still possibly await them - especially the children, but hell no to that plan. When it's time for them to go home under that plan, what happens to all of the people that have anchor babies while here? I can see how we are getting nowhere on that issue here in California.
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Hey, we should send the stuff they haven't passed out yet from when Katrina hit!
FWIW
Richard
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The comment that it would be cheaper in the long run is true up to a point, the US has been wasting aid money on the sh!thole since the Slave revolt that threw out the French in 1810 ( ish ).
It just goes to prove my point that money spent on international welfare is wasted.
What we SHOULD do, is cut them off, they will either get their act together or they will all die, either way , problem solved.
And that isn't racism because I have the same opinion about Europe, next time Germany takes France we should make them KEEP the darn place.
In the long run the underlying problems should be taken care of by France. It was their colony, they ran it in a hellishly brutal manner until the slave revolt of 1804, and then forced reparations on the Haitians that took until 1947 to pay off. It is why is one part of Hispaniola is OK - the Dominican Republic - and the other is the corrupt hellhole called Haiti. Let the refugees go to France - it may be the last hope to keep it from becoming a Muslim country.
Tonton Macoutes vs. Al-Qaeda in the streets of France? Heck, I'd pay money to watch it! ::)
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"Tonton Macoutes vs. Al-Qaeda in the streets of France? Heck, I'd pay money to watch it!"
I'd put my money on the guys in the dark glasses, AQ has nothing to match REAL zombies (Serpant and the Rainbow )
rw and Texas Bryan, I realize that my suggestion sounds incredibly callous, and I will say that the the only Haitian I have personally known was one of the nicest guys I've ever met and the best Marine I ever served with, that being said, continually dumping in money has been a cruel joke and a waste of resources that has turned them into a dependent nation while making possible the corruption of the leaders.
The left refers to every American business overseas as being " Imperialist" and "Neo colonialism" they are not, they provide jobs and infrastructure. The true "Imperialism" and "Neo Colonialism" takes the form of turning an entire nation into a welfare case.
American industry was not not started with hand outs, European banks did not send money to America until the AMERICANS had started building things worth investing in, that method of supporting enterprise guaranteed that the money went where it would be effective instead of into the pockets of a few corrupt politicians. It also made the prosperity of the people the best interest of even the most corrupt politician because it limited their graft to tax revenues that were not available unless the people were doing well.
So while my post may SEEM harsh it seems like the most workable PERMANENT solution to the problem.
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Although tragic, I think this would be a great time for all of the countries that are critical of the way the USA handles situations like this to show us how it is done and take in the refugees as described. Maybe France or Venezuela should take a turn, both are always first in line to second guess and trash what we do and what we stand for.
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And Cuba.
Any body else notice that all those Haitian refugees sail AROUND the "Workers Paradise" to get to the shores of the "Evil Capitalists" ? It's about 60 miles to Cuba and 160 to the US, but the last refugee I heard of going to Cuba was Michael Moore.
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Tom,
Blunt, maybe; but not harsh.
I agree the best thing for them is to get us and the UN out. The UN has been the biggest thing holding up progress--they prevent a decent into total chaos but hold the same power brokers in power.
Problem is there are no uncorrupted leaders left. kinda like here :'(
Plus the oppressed have nothing to rise up with, only the REALLY bad guys have guns and only the bad guys have machetes. They are literally defending themselves with sticks and stones.
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100 Haitians for every liberal congressman or senator or faux conservative congressman or senator they take. Plus food, water for 1,000 more Haitians in situ for one year. Sounds fair to me.
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We could round up a bunch of illegal aliens and help replenish the population of Haiti.
They interviewed some guy who said they would start to riot if help wasn't sent faster. Really? You are going to make a threat to destroy what's left of your own country if others don't send you help? Go ahead, I'm not sending one cent. He should take some of that energy and help himself.
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We could round up a bunch of illegal aliens and help replenish the population of Haiti.
They interviewed some guy who said they would start to riot if help wasn't sent faster. Really? You are going to make a threat to destroy what's left of your own country if others don't send you help? Go ahead, I'm not sending one cent. He should take some of that energy and help himself.
I was in Chicago some years ago when the local Welfare recipients decided to stage a protest, for what ever grievance they had at the time, by refusing to cash their checks. The protest was ineffective and after a week or so they knuckled under and cashed the checks. Sigh.
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We could round up a bunch of illegal aliens and help replenish the population of Haiti.
They interviewed some guy who said they would start to riot if help wasn't sent faster. Really? You are going to make a threat to destroy what's left of your own country if others don't send you help? Go ahead, I'm not sending one cent. He should take some of that energy and help himself.
And that my friend is why I and most Floridians don't like Haitians. I don't mean to generalize, many are fine folks. The thing is, that that attitude, probably born from enslavement and oppressive governments, is what makes Haitians less than welcome here. There is a sense of entitlement, coupled with a chip on the shoulder, a casual relationship with the law, and a pushy demeanor that tends to rub the wrong way. I am all in favor of sending aid. Yes, its probably wasted money, but thats the price of being the regional hegemon. Use it wisely or don't, we sent it so don't bitch. Inviting Haitian culture into the US is a VERY BAD IDEA. TW will back me here. Cuban refugees and immigrants from the Bahamas tend to prosper. Haitians? Not so much. I would take 1000 Vietnamese refugees (who were stupidly not welcomed when they arrived in the 1970's) for every one Haitian and consider it a bargain.
FQ13
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While its great, we can help the rest of the world, but we don't have the money and we have people starving here that need to be taken care of 1st.
Sending crews and the like to help with rescue and medical is fine, but we can not aford to send money.
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Hey TAB, they need mega construction for the rebuild, you could land a nice UN subsidized "Rebuilding Contract" (for the children), and build them some new bldgs.
Than there's the Jimmy Carter Habitat For Humanity aspect and let them build their own homes. Send them the left over FEMA trailers sitting in a field somewhere in the midwest,...
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bho promised 100 million in aid, I would think that you would be able to buy the entire country and bulldoze it level for 1/2 of that and still be ahead.
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The main reason why they are in the shape they are in now is... they are poor.
Thier construction methods are a result of that. Like a good part of central and south america, most houses are built out of masonary. Its what they have locally( so it cheap) the prob is they don't use rebar to reinforce it. Rebar its not cheap. When the ground moves, masonary cracks, rebar stops that crack from growing.
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Hey TAB, they need mega construction for the rebuild, you could land a nice UN subsidized "Rebuilding Contract" (for the children), and build them some new bldgs.
Than there's the Jimmy Carter Habitat For Humanity aspect and let them build their own homes. Send them the left over FEMA trailers sitting in a field somewhere in the midwest,...
Habitat is the best thing Carter ever did (maybe the only good thing). They are more than willing to go and help. Let them. Our military should rebuild the port (so it gets done ASAP) and then let charities do what they do best.
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The main reason why they are in the shape they are in now is... they are poor.
Thier construction methods are a result of that. Like a good part of central and south america, most houses are built out of masonary. Its what they have locally( so it cheap) the prob is they don't use rebar to reinforce it. Rebar its not cheap. When the ground moves, masonary cracks, rebar stops that crack from growing.
Its also a result of deforestation. Hispanola used to be covered with old growth. Thing is, in Haiti, charcoal is the primary fuel. When the the trees are cut down, there is nothing to stop mud slides. It happens after every hurricane. An earthquake is orders of magnitude worse. Cheap houses built on muddy slopes? Its like Californians who build million dollar homes in dry arroyos and then are shocked, shocked mind you, when the Santa Anna wind blows and the wild fires spread. as the Duke said, "Life is hard. Its harder when you're stupid". Granted these folks don't have many other options, but this was a predictable disaster.
FQ13
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bho promised 100 million in aid, I would think that you would be able to buy the entire country and bulldoze it level for 1/2 of that and still be ahead.
The other 50 mill is a union payoff.
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Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
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Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
+10, but its the price of empire. That is something we seriously need to debate in this country. Do we really want to be a super power, or just take care of our own defense and let the rest of the world find their own way, even if we don't like the direction they're heading towards? That is the fundamental question.
FQ13
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Habitat is the best thing Carter ever did (maybe the only good thing). They are more than willing to go and help. Let them. Our military should rebuild the port (so it gets done ASAP) and then let charities do what they do best.
while I think the idea is great( a hand up rather then a hand out) the way it goes about doing things is all wrong.
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+10, but its the price of empire. That is something we seriously need to debate in this country. Do we really want to be a super power, or just take care of our own defense and let the rest of the world find their own way, even if we don't like the direction they're heading towards? That is the fundamental question.
FQ13
As long as they sell us what we want to buy, and buy what we want to sell who really gives a crap what the rest of the world does. As long as they don't inconvenience us, if they DO become annoying, like these stinking Muslims we just kill them and wreck their stuff until they take the hint and promise NOT to annoy us any more. (and of course pay for the munitions we dropped on them.)
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While I understand many of them have "converted". The reputation Haiti has had for as long as I can remember is that the people there are godless heathens, or worse, worship voodoo idols...
And we have nuclear weapons just wasting away in their silo's. :-\
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While I understand many of them have "converted". The reputation Haiti has had for as long as I can remember is that the people there are godless heathens, or worse, worship voodoo idols...
And we have nuclear weapons just wasting away in their silo's. :-\
Actually it's Called "Santeria" and it is a combination of the tribal beliefs of the natives and Catholicism. (Where the Catholic part fits in with the dead chickens and zombies I have NO CLUE )
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badgersmilk wrote:
And we have nuclear weapons just wasting away in their silo's.
Huh? That is a new one on me that we have nuclear missiles in silo's outside of CONUS. ??? ??? ??? ???
As far as habitat for humanity goes...the kinda construction that needs to go back in to replace all those destroyed structures, is, in my opinion, way...WAY... out of habitat's league.
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As far as the original quote is concerned, let me quote my late father;
DUMB ASSES! ::)