The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: ericire12 on January 19, 2010, 09:16:07 AM
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/19/bushmaster-acr-launched/
(http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/bushmaster_acr-tfb.jpg)
As you can see above, there are four models (ACR SS 16M B, ACR SS 16M C, ACR FR 16M B and ACR FR 16M C ). Essentially there are two colors (Black and "Coyote Brown") and two types (Basic and Enhanced). Each model is available in 5.56mm or 6.8 SPC (but can be quickly swapped from one caliber to the other by changing barrel and bolt head).
The Basic model features:
16.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel system
A2 birdcage-style suppressor
Magpul MBUS iron sights
A-Frame style stock
Free floating monolithic top rail.
The Enhanced model adds the following features:
Three sided handguard rail ( giving a quad rail setup with the monolithic top rail at 12 o'clock ).
AAC Blackout flash hider
6 position folding stock. This stock is what we all think of as "THE" ACR stock.
Now what you have been waiting for ...
The suggested retail price for the Basic models is $2,685 and for the enhanced it is $3,061! This is what I expected, although many were hoping for it to fall into the $1000-$2000 price range.
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2700 for the BASIC model? ::)
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I can convert my Bushmaster from 5.56 to 6.8 in under 2 minutes without tools as well by changing the upper, so see no advantage to that unless I am missing something. The retractable stock is pretty cool. I can load up my AR-15 with lots of goodies, buy the extra receiver and have plenty leftover for other stuff versus what they are charging. Any reasons why I would get the ACR instead (aside from the cool factor?)
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Well s#@$.
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I like Bushmaster, and own 5 of their AR-15 Models. With that said, I think they are way out of line for charging upward of $2,700.00 for a gun with a molded Polymer lower. This is as bad as H&K with their $2,300.00+ Mark 23 SOCOM Polymer pistol. We all see how well that is selling. I wish them luck, especially in this economy. Bill T.
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Wait a year and the supply will be up and price in a more reasonable range.
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Let me see acr $2700 :o Ak 47 $400. I think I can get a crap load of ammo to go with it and I am not afraid to drop it, drag it through the mud split someones wig with it and it works.
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Let me see acr $2700 :o Ak 47 $400. I think I can get a crap load of ammo to go with it and I am not afraid to drop it, drag it through the mud split someones with with it and it works.
Good point. Even a top tier AK-47 model like a Lancaster or an Arsenal can be had for well under the $1,000.00 mark. You are talking 2 of them, plus a boatload of ammo for the same price. You also have the advantage you're buying a proven design over 60 years old and manufactured into the tens of millions, and proven in all but countless wars. Bill T.
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I still want one.... why... come on do I really need a reason? Cool is enough reason for me.... I'm not living in reality today.
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I've been following this rifle since it was the Magpul Masada. Its modularity is every bit as good as an AR, piston driven, less complex innards than the SCAR, fantastic ergonomics and some innovative bits like the fast change barrel and erector set buttstock...seemed like about as good a 5.56 carbine as I had seen. I was dubious but Remington/Bushmaster even seemed to improve some parts like relocating the charging handle.
The best part seemed that they were going to price it int he $1000-1500 range.
My guess is 2 things: 1) they've seen the hype and prices that the SCAR has commanded and realize they can get it for a while, and 2) they want to very slowly ramp up production to serve military contracts as well as give the platform time to work the bugs out...nothing slows demand like a high price.
Economics.
I'll wait until the bugs have been worked out and the price comes down. I've bought 2 rifles in the $2000 range. DSA SA58 FAL Para and a MSAR E4 AUG. The Para still commands that price. The AUG is about 60% that price now. Live and learn...but I REALLY wanted them at the time.
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This sums up my feelings on the matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0Pu-rvFjs
I do know what it's like to work for monkeys in suits.
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That was EXCELLENT!! Bill T.
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I've been thinking about this. I think the days of the $700 AR15 may be behind us, and therefore while a $1500 AR WAS high end, now it's in the middle, and a high end gun is $2500.
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Hate to crap on your theory Overload, but $700 is exactly what some brands of AR are selling for at NH's biggest gun store.
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Oh another AR that promises to change everything..... ::)
Zzzzzzzzzz
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Oh another AR that promises to change everything..... ::)
Zzzzzzzzzz
Well said^^
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Actually, the Magpul Masada was something of an innovation when it was introduced, for the polymer lower if nothing else. I recall a lot (and I mean A LOT) of people here (me too! ;D ) wanting one so badly at the time we would give up first born male children. The problem is that 2 years have gone by since Magpul got everyone in a hot sweaty lather, and then as first Remington then Bushmaster dithered, we all knew it was out there, waiting, waiting, willing to put up with all sorts of dithering.
And then this - $2800 - $3100! And for a rifle Magpul wanted to bring to market for $1500.
So a combination of desire (nay, lust) followed by a period of unrequited lust, followed by an absolutely ludicrous price tag.
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Actually, the Magpul Masada was something of an innovation when it was introduced, for the polymer lower if nothing else. I recall a lot (and I mean A LOT) of people here (me too! ;D ) wanting one so badly at the time we would give up first born male children. The problem is that 2 years have gone by since Magpul got everyone in a hot sweaty lather, and then as first Remington then Bushmaster dithered, we all knew it was out there, waiting, waiting, willing to put up with all sorts of dithering. You remembered who will be picking your retirement home
And then this - $2800 - $3100! And for a rifle Magpul wanted to bring to market for $1500.
So a combination of desire (nay, lust) followed by a period of unrequited lust, followed by an absolutely ludicrous price tag.
Edited for accuracy ;D
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Let's see... My tax return combined with my student reimbursement is about $5000 give or take a few hundred. So either
ACR with all the extras and about 1000 rounds of .223 or
M&P 9c - $500
M&P 40 Pro 4.25" - $600
M&P15T (as I have really wanted one since buying my M&P15 - $1600
1000 rounds of 9mm, 40, and .223
Mossberg 590A1 - $400
and maybe a SA Loaded Operator and plenty of ammo for it.
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I've been thinking about this. I think the days of the $700 AR15 may be behind us, and therefore while a $1500 AR WAS high end, now it's in the middle, and a high end gun is $2500.
I think 6 or 8 months ago you would have been right on the money. Hussein's election drove up the price of any and all black rifles faster than plywood sales 48 hours before a hurricane. Since then 2 things have happened. People have flat ran out of money, and Hussein has been so busy screwing everything else up, he doesn't have time to arm wrestle with gun control.
Prices in some areas now are actually cheaper than before the election. Many dealers are simply overstocked with black rifles in anticipation of this buying spree lasting forever. They never do. The black rifle market is currently much like the housing market in that regard. Artificially inflated prices have collapsed at about the same time everyone ran out of money along with the ability to buy on credit. The result is a glut of product, with many barely used guns coming on the market as well, from people who need to make mortgage payments instead of credit card payments on a rifle can can easily do without. I was talking to a salesman at the Cabela's near me and he told me during the post election buying craziness, about 85% or more of the gun sales they made were to people purchasing with a credit card.
Many AK-47 models are back to prices of 3 or 4 years ago.This really is the time to buy because the market is still volatile. Many things could drive it into a frenzy once again. Remember, Hussein can do a lot of damage with an Executive Order. He does not need the approval of Congress or the Senate. That is exactly how Bush and Clinton gave us the 922 compliant law along with the banning of Chi Com AK's. He could easily wait until his reelection comes up, and if he loses he could sign an Executive Order on his way out the door just to stick it to gun owners, who we all know he hates with a passion. We still live in dangerous political times. Don't let your guard down. Bill T.
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Bill, there was a legitimate reason for banning the import of Norinco's, They got caught trying to smuggle 18,000 Full auto AK's into the US, (Probably for shipment to Mexico ) right after they got caught selling Scud Missiles to N Korea.
Norinco is a commercial front for the Chinese army and much of their production takes place in labor camps.
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I shot skeet the other day with a guy that paid $10,000 for his over-under shotgun. I am new to skeet so be blew me away, but a friend "out shot" him with a $400 semi auto shotgun.
As a civilian, this rifle is either in the "coolness" category or in the "I am fighting off the zombies" category. You can't put a price on being cool so be it if that is your route go for it. (Some marketing folks have learned that higher prices contribute the products appeal.)
If it is the zombies, then I think I'd buy 2 (maybe 3) ARs or 5 or 6 AKs for that price and distribute them to others and/or have back-ups. ;D
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I shot skeet the other day with a guy that paid $10,000 for his over-under shotgun. I am new to skeet so be blew me away, but a friend "out shot" him with a $400 semi auto shotgun.
As a civilian, this rifle is either in the "coolness" category or in the "I am fighting off the zombies" category. You can't put a price on being cool so be it if that is your route go for it. (Some marketing folks have learned that higher prices contribute the products appeal.)
If it is the zombies, then I think I'd buy 2 (maybe 3) ARs or 5 or 6 AKs for that price and distribute them to others and/or have back-ups. ;D
Little Red, I say welcome to the insanity here that is our dysfunctional little family, and for the second time today, amen and +10.
FQ13
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Well it looks like most of us are guilty of the same thing...Practicality...I have been like everyone else in that I have been drooling over everything from articles,ads,posters and tv show promoting the ACR. I even play with the gun on Call of Duty Modern Warfare!!! But to think I may have to sell 3 of my (perfectly good) AR's or take away from my kids college funds to afford one? Not happening!!! Now I do understand the cool factor and for those who have the money, I say nice gun! I even understand the need for a quick change barrel and the need to change from NATO to Warsaw Calibers in a moments notice. To have one platforn that can go from a CQB in 5.56 to a EBR in .308 is fantastic. But for $3000.00 I better get 3 barrels choices in 2 calibers with 1 red dot and 1 varible scope. Plus throw in about 10 Pmags and a soft sided case...My point is I can buy 1 AR lower with several stocks and about 3 uppers ranging from .22lr to .50BMG...Come on guys, we currently have a democractic president that you want to convince that the services need this rifle? I have been a big fan of Magpul for awhile and own alot of their products. I am very budget concious person and found that Magpul prices were affordable for most people. Now I wonder?
Carlton the confused!!!
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Well it looks like most of us are guilty of the same thing...Practicality...I have been like everyone else in that I have been drooling over everything from articles,ads,posters and tv show promoting the ACR. I even play with the gun on Call of Duty Modern Warfare!!! But to think I may have to sell 3 of my (perfectly good) AR's or take away from my kids college funds to afford one? Not happening!!! Now I do understand the cool factor and for those who have the money, I say nice gun! I even understand the need for a quick change barrel and the need to change from NATO to Warsaw Calibers in a moments notice. To have one platforn that can go from a CQB in 5.56 to a EBR in .308 is fantastic. But for $3000.00 I better get 3 barrels choices in 2 calibers with 1 red dot and 1 varible scope. Plus throw in about 10 Pmags and a soft sided case...My point is I can buy 1 AR lower with several stocks and about 3 uppers ranging from .22lr to .50BMG...Come on guys, we currently have a democractic president that you want to convince that the services need this rifle? I have been a big fan of Magpul for awhile and own alot of their products. I am very budget concious person and found that Magpul prices were affordable for most people. Now I wonder?
Carlton the confused!!!
Cutter -
You touched on the very reason it is $3000 - the gummint. When they sell this to the Feds, they will make a huge profit on the volume of rifles and spares. And the receiver of all this cash will not be Magpul - it will be Bushmaster/Cerberus. Magpul sold the rifle to them, via Remington/Cerberus.
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But for $3000.00 I better get 3 barrels choices in 2 calibers with 1 red dot and 1 varible scope. Plus throw in about 10 Pmags and a soft sided case... Carlton the confused!!!
Not to mention a good bottle of rum and a weekend with one of Tiger's mistresses. ::)
FQ13 who says WTF? :o
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Considering I just received this E-Mail from CDNN Investments this morning, I would have to say they are launching this thing with way too high of a price point.
SEMI-AUTO'S
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Bushmaster M4A1 · 223 · 16" Carbine · 1-30rd Mag ·
Collapsible Stock · Bayo Lug · Fixed Carry Handle · New
#BUSBCWA1F16M4 $749.99
Smith & Wesson M&P15 · .223 · 16" Barrel · Detachable Carry Handle ·
6-Position Collapsible Stock · 1-30rd Mag · New
#SMI811000 $929.99 CASH PRICE
Smith & Wesson M&P · .223 · 16" Barrel · Optics Ready Flat-Top Receiver ·
M4 Handguard · 6-Postition Stock · Bird Cage · 1-30rd Mag · New
#SMI811003 $799.99 CASH PRICE
Beretta CX4 Storm · 40s&w · 16.6" Carbine · 2-14rd PX4 Mags · New
#BERJX4P415SD $679.99
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I just read an article about a Les Baer (custom) AR that shoots 1/2MOA and MSRP is only $2600. Sound like a better deal. (said by someone who just spent more on a .308 AR, so I may be a bad judge of value)