The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: GUNS-R-US on January 28, 2010, 07:43:15 PM
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Okay so I've been wanting a slim 9mm to take the place of my Colt Mustang Pocket lite .380, my answer to that delima was a Kel-Tec PF9. I told the wife it was an early birthday present ;D. At only $329 with tax it had a better price point than the Kahr. Witch is important till the wife gets to working full-time again. I haven't got to shoot it yet, will do that on Monday. I already put a Crimson Trace laser on it, I love lasers on my SD guns. It is a little tight to get all my fingers on the grip even with the finger extenuation on the magazine but I do like the way it points. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sweet! Be sure to give us a range report soon!
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Man I fondled one big time last month, it is certainly on the short list. Congratulations!!!!
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Congrats on the new toy!
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Guns-R-You! Nice little piece...and we really need that range report!
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Guns-R-You! Nice little piece...and we really need that range report!
I get free range time on the 1st and the 15th so I'll have it on Monday! ;)
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Okay so here it is a little late and long ::), but better than never right! I got out last Monday the 1st for a little range time with my new toy! I took my Kel-Tec PF9 and my S&W M&P9c to my local range, were I fire off 250 rounds out of the PF9 and about 100 rounds from the M&P for comparison purposes (both with CTC Lasers). To start I set the target out to 25 feet loaded up the (single >:() mag the PF9 came with and was reasonably happy with the hits, the CTC Laser guard was right on, it needed no additional adjustment. Witch is a first for me; all my other CTC grips required some adjustment to hit to the point of aim. This is certainly not a snipers tool; my first group was about 4-5 inches offhand, but for the intended purpose it was quite adequate. I measured the trigger pull (with my Lyman Digital Trigger gage) to be an average of 6lb. 1oz. compared to the M&P’s 5lb. 11oz., witch is not bad for a inexpensive DAO pistol (at least it’s not 11-13lb. like most DAO’s). The first of several differences in the price tag of these two guns can be found in the quality of the trigger though. The PF9’s trigger has a very long pull and reset, and has a sharp break point at the end that was hard estimate verses the M&P’s trigger witch is much shorter with a reasonable reset and a good break. (I don’t have anything to actually measure this) I would liken it to the difference in driving a Kia Rio vs. Toyota Camry. They both get the job done but one is adequate the other is more a pleasure. ::) (Keep in mind the manual says not to dry fire this weapon, as it could damage the firing mechanism.) The trigger isn’t very thick and I found that I needed to insert my trigger finger into the first joint to get a decent pull on the trigger. If I used the pad of my finger I pulled my shots to the right about 5” at 25’. :-[ The sights are small, and plastic (I think), the rear is adjustable for windage, they were doable but I’ll look around to see if I can find some better sights. (XS has some but they require a gunsmith for installation.) I would like a Big Dot though with the laser, sights are not as important. Fit and finish is a little rough, there are numerous though minor sharp edges on the pistol. After about 30 rounds the grip was starting to wear on me so I put on a shooting glove. That helped over the next couple hundred rounds but by the time I was done I was really done. :P The recoil is rather sharp even with target loads. Kel-Tec says the PF9 will handle +P loads but not under continued use. So I ran a few +P’s and then a few more +P+’s through it to see how it would do and was happy to see it didn’t blow up in my face! As my preferred carry load is the 127gr +P+ from Winchester! The mag holds 7rds and is not 100% drop free. If the moon and the stars all line up it will pop right out ???, but if not then you have to either shake the gun a little or reach up with your support hand and grasp the bottom of the mag (their isn’t much to grasp) and tug it a bit. The mag comes with a third finger extension, which I did try, but I found that my pinky finger still didn’t quite fit on the grip when installed (my hands are small-medium in size). It would probably work for my wife but not me. I found it better to wrap my pinky finger under the mag. As I said earlier the gun comes with only one mag :( so I ordered 4 more from Kel-Tec with the extension witch showed up yesterday, witch of course I don’t need now, my mistake for ordering them before shooting the gun :-X, I could have gotten a 5th mag for the cost of 4 extensions. >:( The CTC laser guard does give you a nice spot for your support hand to rest the index finger on the end of the trigger guard but the activation switch does eat up a fraction of the front strap of the grip (maybe the mag extension would work better without the CTC’s). The PF9 weighed in at 19oz loaded with 8rds and the M&P weighed in at 31oz loaded with 13rds. The PF9 does have a small M1913 rail on the front but the CTC laser guard eats up too much of the little space available for it to be useful to me. Unlike it’s smaller predecessor the P3AT the PF9 does have a slide lock and remains open after the last round. To grade the pistol I’d give it an A+ for compactness ;D (.88” wide, 9mm), a C+ for Fit & Finish :-\ (it’s not an attractive pistol), and a B- for shoot ability (50rds are okay 250rds = sore wrist :'(). This is a good gun to carry a lot and shoot some. With a cost of less than half that of Kahr, meaning you can get 2 for 1 including tax. I still would like to get a Kahr for the nicer fit and finish, though it’s hard justify the $400 for that alone unless you have cash to burn. Overall I give the PF9 a B+. 8) I hope yawl found this to be a good and helpful report! :)
Guns
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I would love to see a full report on the M&P9c since I'm picking up one Monday. I would like a user's first hand experience before I go all in on it.
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You pretty much echoed my (brief) experience with the P-11. Mediocre (at best sights), grip that was hard on the hand with the zippy recoil and a god awful triger. Still, it worked, and at a budget price. I wouldn't want one, but I would carry one. It performs as advertised and you get slightly more than get your money's worth. My only addition would be that I had the occasional hiccup with HPs. FMJ, no worries, but a couple of failure to feeds with Win. White Box 124 grains. I didn't keep it long enough to know if it was the round, the mag, or the gun. It just magically turned into a G-26. ;D
Fq13
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I would love to see a full report on the M&P9c since I'm picking up one Monday. I would like a user's first hand experience before I go all in on it.
Go right ahead and pick it up I love mine. I only bought the Kel-Tec to get a slimmer 9mm "pocket pistol" to replace my Colt Mustang .380. I tried using the M&P9c for a pocket gun but it was a little to thick at 1.25" and the CTC's add to that some more. That's wear the Kel-Tec fits in, gives me an upgrade to a 9mm pocket pistol. The P-11 that FQ mentioned is just like the (and is the parent gun to the) PF9, the difference is it has a double stack 11rd mag. So it's grip is a slight bit thicker. I carry the M&P9c when ever my dress and occasion allow. The Kel-Tec will be for when concealing the thickness of the M&P is difficult. Like when going to Church or at the Beach, or when running. The last one is probably the most common for me as I run 3-4 days a week and don't want to skimp or give-up my protection while doing so.
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Here's the new Smith in the family. M&P9c in perfect new condition even though the previous owner fired a few defensive rounds through it for function testing. All of the rounds he tried worked and I am in possession of the remaining ammo which is about 150 rounds varying from Federal Hydrashocks to Hornady Critical Defense and some nice Winchester premium. Trijicon factory night sights and a 3rd mag with finger extension. Oddly the last of the serial number is all 9s (XXX9999). Finish is perfect and the function is extremely stiff. Not bad at all and the fit in hand is unbelievable. Granted I've never held a compact model before. With the finger extension it feels just like my full size .40
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Well here is the new Smith in the family. Amazing! Not only does it look like it's never been touched it is stiff action. Only had a handful of high quality ammo put through it for function checking and I got to have the left over ammo. 150+ rounds of high quality defensive ammo ranging from Hydrashocks and Gold Dots to Winchester premium Elite and Hornady Critical Defense. All of which fed for him flawlessly. Even came with a 3rd mag with the finger extension. Fits in all my existing holsters just like my full size. It even fits in my Fobus Evolution better than the M&P it was made for. Oddly the serial number ends in all 9s (XXX9999). Don't know if that is some kind of odd eastern sign or what. The previous owner was a Columbus PD and had this as his personally owned off duty weapon. He decided to move to a .357sig and get a .40 barrel or vice versa. Huh sounds like what I was going to do. Oh well. I love it!
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Well here is the new Smith in the family. Amazing! Not only does it look like it's never been touched it is stiff action. Only had a handful of high quality ammo put through it for function checking and I got to have the left over ammo. 150+ rounds of high quality defensive ammo ranging from Hydrashocks and Gold Dots to Winchester premium Elite and Hornady Critical Defense. All of which fed for him flawlessly. Even came with a 3rd mag with the finger extension. Fits in all my existing holsters just like my full size. It even fits in my Fobus Evolution better than the M&P it was made for. Oddly the serial number ends in all 9s (XXX9999). Don't know if that is some kind of odd eastern sign or what. The previous owner was a Columbus PD and had this as his personally owned off duty weapon. He decided to move to a .357sig and get a .40 barrel or vice versa. Huh sounds like what I was going to do. Oh well. I love it!
Garand,
Now you need to get a couple full size 9mm 17rd mags. to carry for reloads! They fit just fine, and with 13rds in the gun and 17rd mag for reloading. That adds up to 30 chances to fix a bad situation! ::) ;D
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I am ordering several, haven't decided how many. I am also going to get some mag sleeves so that the full size mags fit flush to the magwell.
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I am ordering several, haven't decided how many. I am also going to get some mag sleeves so that the full size mags fit flush to the magwell.
Let me know where you get the mag sleeves and how much they are. I found some here, http://www.calssportingarmory.com/X_Grip_Magazine_Spacer_Smith_Wesson_M_P_C_9_40_p/xgswmp.htm
but to buy 2 with shipping was over $31 so I'm hoping to find a better deal, as they are not really necessary. The gun will function just fine with out them and It's not uncomfortable to shoot with with full size mag without the sleeve inserted.
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Well it's the 1st again so it was free range day at my local indoor range. :) Took the M&P9c and the KelTec PF9 out for some trigger time, both were good the PF9 really does kick, especially with the new Federal 95gr ammo I bought that stuff is HOT! It felt like I was shooting a .40S&W in stead of a 9MM. The Zombies lost! ;D
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The Zombies lost! ;D
Boy I'd say!! ;D