The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: JdePietro on January 29, 2010, 06:35:05 PM
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Since the shot show hangovers are starting to wear off I figured I pose a question to the trainers and the knowledgable group here. Perhaps I am inventing a sollution to a problem that does not exist but here I go...
Utilizing a standard silhouette target 10 feet away, you start in the supine position, eyes closed hands at your sides, the gun is on the ground or matt next to you. This is meant to simulate sleeping with a gun on dresser next the to bed. When your partner/timer gives the "go" signal you open your eyes grab you gun and... Give a short description of the target providing three elements. Ethnicity, gender and threat item. For instance, Asian femal with a knife. My thought behind this idea was a want to slow down the drill to account for the dazed groggy just waking up feeling. Also I don't think there is any harm to being able to get a discription of your target to include the reason you choose a lethal force option.
What are your thoughts? Is there anything like this going on in the industry now? Is there any value in adding this aspect to training? ???
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I don't know jack about it simulating "groggy" but it WOULD get you into the habit of really IDENTIFYING, the threat.
Asian, Woman,KNIFE ! seems like a much better target than, some one, something in their hand, I think.
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Threat assessment has to be conditioned and trained, your 5 year old son/ daughter, with an upset stomach, in the middle of the night, vs, an "asian with a knife"...or whatever else.
The literal discipline and training has to be the most dangerous weapon of them all,, your brain. What will you see in a 3:48 a.m. scenario. How light of a sleeper are you?
I agree Jde with your premise of the natural tendency to want to "digest" a rapidly degrading SD situation and assess the situation sounds great but probably won;t happen. Home invasion, sitting watching TV relaxing , door is kicked in and 2 to 5 thugs storm your house. What do you process....
I have swept and continue to do so, sweep my house. With unloaded firearms, and with the "nightstand" pistol when the bump in the night was louder than it should have been.
I am a light sleeper, with no kids in the house. But the damn cats can certainly make you "listen".... It is a never ending restraint/control issue.
It's tough. I don;t know of any specific training, but any and all is going to help NOT be a victim.
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JD, we have used recognition targets for years, these are photographic targets of real people with real somethings in their hands. Gun, Knife, drill, badge, cell phone, pack of cigs etc... These are good resources for recognizing a threat, waking up in the middle of the night with any of the above in my home, and I don't know them, better have an excellent response to me and quickly not to take action.
We no longer do drills, supine, that is a loss, as the range no longer allows drills that allow the shooter to shoot past any appendage, no matter how safe we might have made the stage, good practice, but potentially a less than focused shooter could put a hole in him or her self.
Good question, and I look forward to more responses.
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I don't knw about this. Distance from my bed to bedroom door is about seven feet. Gun is under the pillow. I don't need a description. The thing is, this won't be the only warning. One I have an alarm, 2 I have a dog that is at least good at barking, three I lock my bedroom door. This gives me a few seconds minimum to wake the hell up. I'm not sure this drill is generally applicable. Not saying its bad, just I should, under normal circumstances, have a minimum of ten seconds to be awake, a pistol in hand and off the other side of the bed. And this is assuming a SWAT style home invasion which is highly unlikely in a very normal MC ranch style neighborhood.
FQ13
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In my opinion, running this type of scenario is just as beneficial as the next. You can practice this one every time you have to get up in the middle of the night. Whether it's the dog or nature calling makes no difference. You can't control the groggy feeling, but you can control the steps you take to get your weapon and light/laser. For some added content... because of the groggy feeling and loss of eyesight for a short time, I love the light/laser combos mounted to my pistol. Can't line up sights, even night sights when you are groggy and can't see, but you can dang sure see that laser. Chances are, it may be a great deterent too - guy sees the laser and realizing he has a very short time to live, runs for his life. My two cents.
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I don't knw about this. Distance from my bed to bedroom door is about seven feet. Gun is under the pillow. I don't need a description. The thing is, this won't be the only warning. One I have an alarm, 2 I have a dog that is at least good at barking, three I lock my bedroom door. This gives me a few seconds minimum to wake the hell up. I'm not sure this drill is generally applicable. Not saying its bad, just I should, under normal circumstances, have a minimum of ten seconds to be awake, a pistol in hand and off the other side of the bed. And this is assuming a SWAT style home invasion which is highly unlikely in a very normal MC ranch style neighborhood.
FQ13
Better watch out for them brains, friend............having a bad dream could make for one heck of a wake-up call......
Might need to sleep wearing a steel pot.....
:o
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Better watch out for them brains, friend............having a bad dream could make for one heck of a wake-up call......
Might need to sleep wearing a steel pot.....
:o
FQ doesn't have that problem, the gun is no where near his butt. ;D
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The point of simulations is to make the stimuli that bring about the instinctive reactions and learned responses more realistic so that the brain connects the plausible/expected inputs to the learned responses that you are trying to create... all in the context of the planned use of those responses. Since, "practicing" to identify and recite target description would not be the actual skill that you are trying to develop, it seems to me that this drill, while cumbersome, doesn't actually enhance a persons ability to use the proper skills under stress or "grogginess". In fact, it focuses cognitive energy on a set of skills that are specifically not important during an actual fight. Recognition of a threat is the precursor to defensive action and that recognition may not me articulable during the incident, which is fine. Perhaps removing the student from the environment or turning the target away quickly after the shoot and THEN challenging the student to articulate the threat is something that might be more relevant... which has been done in various settings and various ways.
-RJP
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Thank you all I thought I was onto something here...
Rob as always your input is worth far more than what I pay.
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Better watch out for them brains, friend............having a bad dream could make for one heck of a wake-up call......
Might need to sleep wearing a steel pot.....
:o
Double bed Peg, the other pillow. And it rests on an empty chamber. Slightly paranoid, maybe, stupid, no. ;D
FQ13
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Double bed Peg, the other pillow. And it rests on an empty chamber. Slightly paranoid, maybe, stupid, no. ;D
FQ13
Now I feel better. ;)