The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: nupe on February 12, 2010, 10:26:03 AM

Title: AR parts kit
Post by: nupe on February 12, 2010, 10:26:03 AM: Alright so I got the bright idea to try and build an AR from scratch. I already have the stripped lower lined up, but I need to find a full parts kits. I'm thinking that I'll go with a dissipator setup with an A3 upper, chrome lined barrel and chamber, and a standard 6-position stock. I'm not looking for anything fancy. I just want something handy that will go bang when I pull the triger. I've been looking at Model 1 Sales and I like their setup, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any other sources for about the same price (600).
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 12, 2010, 12:01:41 PM: Make sure you get the CARBINE buffer.
There IS a difference
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: Cutter68CB on February 12, 2010, 05:58:47 PM: Nupe,
I got the same bright IDEA about this time last year and have built 6 AR's since then. I didn't know about this Forum back then or I would have asked the same questions as you are now...I did ask around and look at Gunbroker.com at feedback on sales of the items needed to build AR's. I learned that Model 1 uppers were OK but that sometimes they have problems with the fit of some of the lower parts. I bought all my stripped uppers and lower's from the same company to insure they would have the best fit. I also bought (brand name) LPK's lower parts kits, for the same reason. Most of my accessories are either Magpul or Yankee Hill Machine, both companies have good product at good prices.
I did build 1 long range gun using a YHM upper mated with a DPMS DCM 20" SS barrel assm. I used a free float YHM rifle length hand guard. It works well and has proven to be as accurate as I am. The barrel came from Midway USA for around $200.00 A really good barrel for the price. The trickeist part I had to learn was the installation of the Hammer Spring!
Everything I did was trial and error, but finally I have 6 working rifles and proud to say I did them myself. Hope this helps a little.

Cutter
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 12, 2010, 09:55:53 PM: I'm relying on Midway and the videos at Brownell's.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: warhawke on February 13, 2010, 02:37:14 AM: Oddly enough I noticed that 'Model 1 Sales' has a 6.5mm kit (Grendel, I assume) which caught my eye as I want a 6.5G so bad I would become celibate for it (for a couple weeks anyway). I actually thought about how I could fund a buy for this until the AR antibodies noticed and destroyed the infection. I still won't buy an AR of any kind, not even if it means no 6.5 Grendel.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: fightingquaker13 on February 13, 2010, 03:19:32 AM: Its the little stuff that scares me about this process. I looked at DIY with both AKs and ARs. You save money, get what you want, no compromises and no extras, and know you did it yourself. So far so good. I am not a gunsmith, but I reckon I can fit tab A into slot B given a manual and a video (good call Tom). What gets me is the little stuff, the tiny tweaks to springs, the gap that needs to be closed a little, but not too much. My question is, what would someone like operator, who has done this a hundred times, charge if you mailed him a box of your chosen parts and asked him to do it for you? Would it be a wise call, or are you just pissing money away?
FQ13
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2010, 12:25:06 PM: AR is fairly easy to build complete, the only AR specific tools you need are the barrel wrench, and the block for mounting the receiver in a vice, an AK requires the trunnions to be welded into place and I think (could be wrong ) that the barrel is welded as well.
FQ, you could handle building an AR, with a minimum of advice.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: 1911 Junkie on February 13, 2010, 04:34:39 PM: The first AR I built I didn't have any idea how to do it.

I bought a kit and sat down with an AR I already had and figured out where everything belonged. It did take a while. Now I can assemble one in no time.

If you can't figure out how to put it together you're probably too stupid to own it. :P ;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: fightingquaker13 on February 13, 2010, 04:49:25 PM: Quote from: 1911 Junkie on February 13, 2010, 04:34:39 PM
The first AR I built I didn't have any idea how to do it.

I bought a kit and sat down with an AR I already had and figured out where everything belonged. It did take a while. Now I can assemble one in no time.

If you can't figure out how to put it together you're probably too stupid to own it. :P ;D
Agreed, but my concern was the little things, the tweaks. Its like the difference between buying a lower from company A and a reciever from company B. Yeah they're both mil spec, but will they fit exactly? What about the bolt assembly, trigger group etc.? Anybody who can read and follow directions can build one, but the same is true of cooking. Two people can follow the same recipe, and one's food will be better based on a feel for the process. I just wasn't sure how much of this carried over to putting a rifle toghther.
FQ13
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2010, 05:13:30 PM: Those are questions that require range time . ;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: 1911 Junkie on February 13, 2010, 07:37:42 PM: How tight of a fit do you want?

As long as they go together it will work (and I haven't heard of anything that doesn't go together). A little play between upper and lower isn't going to hurt anything, if you don't like it and think there is too much play get one of those silly rubber pieces that fit between upper and lower to give it a tighter feel.

Tightness of the upper and lower really won't affect accuracy. Wherever the sights are when the trigger breaks is where the round is going.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: cjwise5 on February 15, 2010, 11:45:38 AM: I have built a handful of AR types too. They are so simple to build and work on, but there are some tricks that will make your first build a little easier. For the most part, if you buy the right tools for the job, you will have far fewer headaches. Some of the biggest "issues" arise with the front takedown pin detent (there is a tool specifically for this job that keeps the detent and the spring from flying into outer space), the rear roll pin for the trigger guard (you can break your lower receiver if you aren't careful pounding this one in), and the bolt catch roll pin (cover your receiver with duct tape before tapping this one in to protect it from getting nicked and scratched by your punch and/or hammer). This AR armorer has personally experienced each of these issues and highly recommends that you heed his advice. :) lol
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: nupe on February 17, 2010, 03:42:00 PM: Does anyone have any experience with ZM4 uppers from DSA? I know that DSA has a good reputation and their uppers are pretty well price, but I have never seen or herd of anyone with one.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: blackwolfe on February 18, 2010, 10:16:48 PM: Quote from: cjwise5 on February 15, 2010, 11:45:38 AM
I have built a handful of AR types too. They are so simple to build and work on, but there are some tricks that will make your first build a little easier. For the most part, if you buy the right tools for the job, you will have far fewer headaches. Some of the biggest "issues" arise with the front takedown pin detent (there is a tool specifically for this job that keeps the detent and the spring from flying into outer space), the rear roll pin for the trigger guard (you can break your lower receiver if you aren't careful pounding this one in), and the bolt catch roll pin (cover your receiver with duct tape before tapping this one in to protect it from getting nicked and scratched by your punch and/or hammer). This AR armorer has personally experienced each of these issues and highly recommends that you heed his advice. :) lol

CJ, What do you recommend to do to keep this from happening? Is there a block or something available to support and protect this area when installing the roll pin?
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 18, 2010, 10:35:05 PM: Check www.ARbuilder.com You can get there through Brownell's site as well.
In the help video they just cautioned you to be careful.
As for the "pivot pin detent and spring" First, I put the receiver in a large freezer bag to contain flying springs, I did not have the tool, or the patience to wait for it so I used an Allen wrench (3/16ths IIRC) to hold everything in place until I could get a putty knife blade between the wrench and the detent, using the putty knife to cover the hole with spring AND detent, (this is where you DEFINITELY want that Freezer baggy ) there is clearance to push the pin into the hole.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: carlosrod on February 23, 2010, 11:17:59 AM: This is great stuff. It will come in handy when I put my Grendel together in a few weeks when everything gets in. I went with a 20" J&T Distributing upper. I hope I did well. I hear they use Double Star stuff. I had a Double Star set up On a AR15 223 and it shot great and great groups. Good luck and keep your powder dry.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: scottr on February 25, 2010, 03:19:23 PM: The advice here and the online tutorials are about all you will need. If the parts are to spec and the upper already assembled, there is nothing to tweak. If not in spec, you'll be frustrated and could end up with an unsafe gun. If this AR absolutely must be perfect and unscratched, realize that putting your first AR together is likely to be a failure, and buy a factory gun.

Go to AR15.com and find and ** print out ** the tutorial on how to put together a lower parts kit and receiver. Watch the Brownell's videos, if you want. They are great, but you shouldn't need to.

Order a complete kit (less lower) that has the options you want. You should be able to spec the items you mentioned. I used Del-Ton for my last build that ended up being my wife's big Christmas present. The upper/barrel/front sight was put together straight, and the M4 ramps matched the barrel and were anodized correctly, not dremeled or cut in afterwards. The Del-Ton LPK just about fell into the S&W lower, it went together so easy. I haven't seen the DSA AR parts, but their FALs are awesome.

If you want your kit right away, verify that the company you buy from has the exact config in stock and not already allocated before ordering. Carlosrod mentioned J&T, and they were really good about this when I was looking for a lightweight barrel (and J&T is Doublestar).

You will want a pin punch or two, a small hammer, a buffer extension wrench, and a long blade flat screwdriver from Midway, your local Ace hardware, or even a pawn shop (buck apiece for tools). Yep, that's it.
The putty knife mentioned is a great choice, and easier than when I used the flat blade screwdriver for the same job.
Tape the receiver for the bolt release pin. I used a big slip-joint/Channellock pliers (with the jaws also taped) to squeeze in the bolt release pin instead of driving it with a punch.
You will need a bench block to safely install the trigger guard roll pin. You can buy the awesomely cool and correct block from Midway, or use a scrap of wood.
I prefer the slotted grip screw so I can use the ever available flat blade screwdriver instead of a Allen wrench that i can never find.
Wrench the receiver extension on and then choose to crank it really hard, Loctite it like RRA, or use the screwdriver to stake it (you paid a buck, who cares?).

Function check.
Fire.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: brosometal on February 25, 2010, 07:21:37 PM: Quote from: nupe on February 12, 2010, 10:26:03 AM
Alright so I got the bright idea to try and build an AR from scratch. I already have the stripped lower lined up, but I need to find a full parts kits. I'm thinking that I'll go with a dissipator setup with an A3 upper, chrome lined barrel and chamber, and a standard 6-position stock. I'm not looking for anything fancy. I just want something handy that will go bang when I pull the triger. I've been looking at Model 1 Sales and I like their setup, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any other sources for about the same price (600).

Here's an all in one type kit: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=611283 (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=611283)
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: scottr on February 25, 2010, 07:34:45 PM: J&T lists $600 for what you want. I don't see a Dissipator option from Del-Ton, but I didn't spend a lot of time looking on their site.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: cjwise5 on February 27, 2010, 12:52:30 PM: Quote from: blackwolfe on February 18, 2010, 10:16:48 PM
CJ, What do you recommend to do to keep this from happening? Is there a block or something available to support and protect this area when installing the roll pin?

just a poly block or wood block will work fine. If it sticks or is hard to get in - don't be a typical man and force it. That's my advice. :)
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: mortdooley on March 08, 2010, 07:12:28 AM: I built two lowers using the tutorial at ar15.com mentioned here by others, the uppers I bought were complete. Don't break your lower installing the roll pin and don't lose any little pins or springs.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tommy tornado on March 08, 2010, 09:25:18 PM: Another useful tip I found was to put the lower in a plastic bag while putting in the springs and dentons that might shoot out of the lower otherwise. Saved me from losing the spring and denton for the front retaining pin.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 09, 2010, 01:54:50 AM: Same here ;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: nupe on April 16, 2010, 10:47:27 AM: I have a question about bolt carriers. I know that you can get semi auto and auto, but I was reading the description for both and the both say that they are for semi auto ar15s and m16s. So I'm just wondering if a guy can put the auto bolt carrier into a semi auto ar15 and still have it functional and legal.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: bjtraz on April 16, 2010, 06:14:39 PM: I just built my first AR. I was very nervous, but it went fine. Most everything mentioned above is good advice, but to add to these; Watch the videos on Brownells, Consider buying Potterfield's video from Midway USA (it's only $15 and very informative), the pivot pin detent spring tool is a LIFE SAVER (I put my first pin in about 60 seconds w/no problems), a roll pin starter would be a good idea (You can start them w/o it, but it seems easier w/it. I'll have one b4 my next build), I don't have roll pin punches, just regular ones, and they worked fine, I just used my hammer testing block to support the trigger guard (it's made of plastic). In the words of Tiger, Just do it! and have fun!!!

Brian
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: twyacht on April 16, 2010, 06:34:49 PM: Congrats on the build bjtraz,
would love to see some pics!!!!!

;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: m25operator on April 16, 2010, 08:08:29 PM: NUPE, yes you can use the full auto bolt in a semi-auto rifle, the main difference is it is heavier, it does not have the scallop cut in the side you can see when the bolt is closed and dust shield is open. The extra weight, slows the cyclic rate. But you do need to be careful, go to the ATFE web site, and you will find a list of components that if a certain number are present in your rifle, whether it is full auto or not, constitute an NFA, weapon. The full auto bolt can be seen from the outside and prompt an inspection. Never seen it happen, but you never know who you might be shooting next to.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: alfsauve on April 17, 2010, 08:28:51 AM: So looking for LPK myself, but I don't want the trigger group or the grip. Looks like if I might have to spring for a "standard" kit and just shelf the extra parts.

Wish someone would put together a parts kit but let you select your trigger and grip. Hey MIDWAY, CTD, BROWNELLS that would be a great way to sell triggers.

"For only $1 more will add a complete parts kit to your Timney Trigger. For $10 more add an Ergo or Magpul grip"
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: Cutter68CB on April 17, 2010, 11:38:57 PM: Quote from: alfsauve on April 17, 2010, 08:28:51 AM
So looking for LPK myself, but I don't want the trigger group or the grip. Looks like if I might have to spring for a "standard" kit and just shelf the extra parts.

Wish someone would put together a parts kit but let you select your trigger and grip. Hey MIDWAY, CTD, BROWNELLS that would be a great way to sell triggers.

"For only $1 more will add a complete parts kit to your Timney Trigger. For $10 more add an Ergo or Magpul grip"

I have been able to sale most of my extra parts thru ebay and Texas gun trader...But I also like keeping a few extra springs and etc. around just in case of a failer...
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: nupe on April 21, 2010, 11:12:30 AM: m25, I'm having a hard time finding that list. Do you have the link?
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: nupe on June 10, 2010, 07:42:02 PM: Ok so I'm off and running again with the build. I put a DPMS lpk in. After I get the paycheck tomorrow I will have an order coming from Bravo Company with their BCG and Gunfighter charging handled along with a Vltor stock and a H buffer. Then in a couple of weeks I will be placing my final order to DSA for their mid-length fluted upper, a mil-spec buffer tube and a buffer spring. As far as I can tell everything should have a pretty good fit and finish, and I'm gonna be one happy kid by the end of the month. If anyone can see anything wrong with my selection let me know.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: bafsu92 on June 11, 2010, 03:22:53 PM: Quote from: Cutter68CB on April 17, 2010, 11:38:57 PM
I have been able to sale most of my extra parts thru ebay and Texas gun trader...But I also like keeping a few extra springs and etc. around just in case of a failer...
Check out palmetto state armory: http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/ (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/) I buy their kits with the Geissele Trigger, Daniel Defense internals and Magpul MOE grip and trigger guard. If you shoot them an email with what you want, say the full MIAD grip instead of teh MOE they'll put it together custom for you and give you a good price. I buy at least half my AR parts from them and have never had an issue. In fact they sent me the wrong item once, it actually cost a bit more than what I ordered. They sent the right part overnight with a pickup tag for the wrong part.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: nupe on August 02, 2010, 09:11:02 PM: I know I'm jumping the gun a bit, but when I home tomorrow night I will finally have my upper and thus complete my first AR build. Just a little excited I guess, but I will post pics and range report after I have broken it in. ;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 02, 2010, 10:30:47 PM: Glad to hear it ;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: nupe on August 16, 2010, 09:56:39 PM: alright I know I keep teasing you guys but I'm finally posting the porn. I still haven't had much of a chance to break it in, but I did get a mag through it and got it roughly sighted in. I don't think I could have planned for a better fit and finish on it. I ended up rounding off the back corners on the rear lug just a hair so that it would slide into place. Other wise no slop, all of the lines match, finish between upper and lower match perfectly. All in all I'm very happy with my first build.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 16, 2010, 11:51:18 PM: Cool ;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: alfsauve on August 17, 2010, 05:42:33 AM: Congratulations! Lookin' good.

Sorry, haven't been following your progress, but looks like you got some good advice and encouragement along the way.

If you haven't done so, you need to check out the operation of the disconnector and safety, before you go to the range.
(Am I being redundant? Did somebody else cover this?)

Making sure the chamber is empty. Cock the hammer (cycle the charging handle). Pull AND HOLD the trigger back, dry-firing the weapon. KEEPING THE TRIGGER BACK cycle the bolt and re-cock the hammer again. THEN RELEASE the trigger and then dry-fire again. IF the disconnector worked the second dry firing should work. If however the disconnector failed, the the hammer will not stay cocked but will ride the bolt home. Repeat this a number of times to insure yourself it works.

And of course, cock the hammer, put on the safety and make sure you can not pull the trigger. Cycle the safety a number of times testing its function.

Have fun at the range. Targets porn is good.
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: GUNS-R-US on August 17, 2010, 11:34:02 AM: Quote from: nupe on August 16, 2010, 09:56:39 PM
alright I know I keep teasing you guys but I'm finally posting the porn. I still haven't had much of a chance to break it in, but I did get a mag through it and got it roughly sighted in. I don't think I could have planned for a better fit and finish on it. I ended up rounding off the back corners on the rear lug just a hair so that it would slide into place. Other wise no slop, all of the lines match, finish between upper and lower match perfectly. All in all I'm very happy with my first build.

Congratulations

I've got 4 lowers that I've had since 08' and I've bought a couple LPK's for them so far. I"m slowly getting every thing I need and I hope to get building soon. I would like to get at least one of them complete this year. I have plans to do an M4, a pistol, a 6.5 or 6.8, and a standard A2 when all is said and done. Time and money is all I need! ::) ;D
Title: Re: AR parts kit
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 17, 2010, 07:29:08 PM: I would go with the 6.8 since it seems to be catching on better than 6.5.