The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: cjwise5 on February 15, 2010, 11:53:54 AM
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Just curious about this because I have seen some pretty strange things used as lubricant inside an AR rifle. I am very strict about what goes inside my guns, as I'm sure you all are. A few substances that I have seen used lately are white automotive greese, and 10w 30 motor oil. I personally can't stop chuckling at this, and i apologize for offending if any of you swears by these. I was taught in an armorer's course that the only thing you should use in an AR for lube is a lightweight synthetic. opinions? Any weapon malfunctions due to lubrication choice?
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A few substances that I have seen used lately are white automotive greese, and 10w 30 motor oil. I personally can't stop chuckling at this, and i apologize for offending if any of you swears by these. I was taught in an armorer's course that the only thing you should use in an AR for lube is a lightweight synthetic.
I have to politely ask, who "taught you" this? No offense, but armorer's know squat about lubricants. They know what they themselves are "TOLD". No more, no less. They cannot prove anything they say lubrication wise with direct fact, anymore than anyone else can. Based on that, and only that, all I have ever used to lubricate my firearms is Mobil 1 Motor Oil, ATF, (Automatic Transmission Fluid), and for very high pressure friction points like bolt lugs on bolt action rifles and hinge pins and trunnions on O/U shotguns I use a small amount of STP. I have never had a a gun rust or fail because of a lubrication issue in over 35 years. Gun oils and greases are overpriced "snake oils" in fancy packaging, nothing more. Know what your getting when you spend $8.00 for a bottle of "Castrol / Hoppes Synthetic Gun Oil"? Castrol Syntec Motor Oil. You can buy it all day for around $4.50 @ quart, or pay $8.00 for 4 ounces of it in a fancy brushed Aluminum pump bottle.
Same with a lot of these "Gun Greases". Go into any auto parts store and you can buy a large tube of Moly Grease that will last the average shooter a lifetime for a couple of bucks. It's as good, or better than these miracle gun greases they sell for over $10.00 for a 1/4 ounce! If you like the fancy hypo type applicator, you can get one at Walgreens, CVS, or most any other drug store for around .25 to .50 cents, and it's refillable too boot. Mobil 1 can be tailored to your climate just as you would if you used it in your car. If you shoot or hunt in very frigid climate it comes in a 0W-20 grade that won't stiffen up in cold weather. Ask yourself this. What is tougher to lubricate, a 500+ HP Corvette engine at 195 degrees, turning 5,000+ RPM pushing a car over 180 MPH, or the slide on your Glock 9 MM?? "Motor Oils" are no joke in the lubrication dept.
Here in Arizona we don't get much cold weather, but in the Summer it can get blistering hot so I use the 20W-50 grade. It has a nice viscosity that won't run off metal and dry up in a few days like some of these water thin gun oils like "Rem-Oil" will. ATF is a very clean non gumming lubricant that works well for lubricating semi autos and fast moving parts like slides and even trigger mechanisms. All 3 of these products can be purchased at any auto parts store for around $10.00, and will last the average shooter for years. I won't overpay for these gun lubes that do nothing better except make you poorer. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. Bill T.
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ATF works well, too.
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Spec Ops B-I-L told me once what they use for lube in the arctic-type climates. Can you guess? I couldn't. Alcohol. Said it doesn't evaporate, or get too viscous like oils.
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Personally, I started with a CLP. Then I found Gun Butter. And let's face it, AR's tend to run better when kept wet.
And what I've found with using Gun Butter is it not only keeps it wet, it doesn't collect dirt, dust, powder residue or any other gunk that can muck up your AR.
Granted, there are several other great products out that probably do just as well.
As far as motor oil, I'd only use it if it was all I had and I had no other choice. Does it lubricate, well duh, sure it does. It's been lubricating car engines and other things for years. But it also collects does and if you've ever seen what it can do to the inside of a motor over time, well I don't want it doing that to the inside of my AR. If I had a choice, at that time of having no other choice, meaning S has hit the fan, and money was no more, going to a store was out of the question etc., etc., I'd use transmission fluid before I used motor oil.
But I stock up on my favorite lubricates and degreasers when I have the extra cash to do so.
Here's a link to Gun Butter's website. If the video of Todd Jarret is still there of him running 1000rds. in an hour I think it was, out of a new Para 1911 in .45acp with only a few drops of Gun Butter, watch it.
http://www.gunbutter.com/index.htm (http://www.gunbutter.com/index.htm)
I've also included a few links of other lubricants I'd use and use long before motor oil and transmission fluid.
http://www.magnalube.com/ (http://www.magnalube.com/) <<< the grease is great for M1 Garands and other similar firearms that require a grease.
http://www.topduckproducts.com/products.aspx?Product=Gunzilla (http://www.topduckproducts.com/products.aspx?Product=Gunzilla)
Info on GunZilla >>> http://www.topduckproducts.com/ (http://www.topduckproducts.com/)
There's a few others but they're bookmarked on the desktop and I'm on the laptop at the moment.
I'm sure some may have an issue with the product I use or the product/s I've suggested. But the one is what I use and have found to work great for me. The others I haven't tried but would certainly do so long before motor oil. Although I hear motor oil works great in AK's. But I also know AK's unlike AR's have very loose tolerances and the thickness or viscosity of motor oil fills the gaps. lol
Hell, I bet and AK would even run great with some 90 weight gear oil? I don;t think it would smell all that good after it heated it up because 90 weight gear oil tends to stinks as it is. lmao
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I have been lubing my AR's (and other stuff, such as Garands, 1911's, etc) with just as BillT has mentioned. I use 0w-30 Amsoil Synthetic, completely draining the bottles into another one. I also use the EP grease that you get from the auto store. This is what runs my AR's and has been working fine. I have even tested them at 30 below zero, and I do not use the grease.
Pay your fancy prices (although I have heard fantastic stuff about Slide Glide), but I am going to keep doing it this way. I also clean up using a mixture of kerosene, ATF, and Kroil.
-Bidah
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BillT,
I don't feel the need to defend myself, but a slight need to defend the person who "taught" me this. The man I took my course from is the same guy that trains all the armorers that work at Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, and DPMS. All I know is that they know a lot more than me. Not taking their advice would be tantamount to disagreeing with a Baptist preacher about the existence of God. LOL forgive me for getting all religious.
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All I'm saying is that firearms people are not experts in lubrication. That is a science in itself. They tell people what they hear or think is the best, with a little bit of personal opinion tossed in for good measure. In that regard they are no more qualified to make recommendations on gun lubricants than anyone here. There are more probably more "gun lubricants" on the market than there are lubricants used on the Space Shuttle. Every one of them making this or that claim. 99.99% of this is based on salesmanship.
Midway alone lists over 75 different gun oils & greases!
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#gun
Somewhere on the label of each will be a claim of how it does this or that better, longer, while at the same time preventing this or that bad from happening to your gun. Most all of it is nonsense. A gun is a fairly simple machine to keep lubricated. Based on that it isn't going to require anything "space age" to keep it running. Especially when you consider the "space age" began in 1957 with the launch of Sputnik. An automobile engine is larger, has more moving parts that run hotter, and are more directly exposed to climate, than most any gun, with the possible exception of an Alaskan guides rifle. As I mentioned I've used only automotive products to take care of my firearms since I got my first .22 when I was 11 back in 1963. In that time I have never had a gun rust, or fail because of any type of lubrication issue.
I'm not telling you what to do or use on your weapons. I'm just saying that with the amount of gun oils and greases on the market today, I have yet to actually see any evidence that any, some, or all of them will make a firearm perform any better, or last any longer, than a couple of drops of a quality motor oil, or a dab of Moly grease will applied in the right area. Bill T.
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Take a look at MILITEC-1. It is a liquid lub that becomes a dry impregnated lubrication. It protects metal surfaces with a constant impregnated molecular bond of synthetic-based hydrocarbon derivatives which will not change any tolerances inside or outside of weapons. MILITEC-1 works within the molecular structure and micro-pores of metal and non-metallic surfaces of weapons.
MILITEC-1 is approved and is being used by the U.S. Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Drug Enforcement Administration, Internal Revenue Service, State Department and many other state and local law enforcement and correctional agencies.
http://www.militec-1.com/
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ATF is not a good lubricant. unless it is the synthetic version, a good hydraulic fluid. No matter if it is dexron 3 or Ford type F. Just try to use either for drilling lube, both suck. When drilling a hole the metal should come out in strands, not metal flakes. Just try it. I like fp10, kroil is a great preservative and cleaner, but horrible lube. So i use both. 1 for cleaning, and the other for lube, not that I think that different motor oils won't work, 0/20 synthetic or better motor oils seem good for the cause, and a quart won't cost much. But will go a long way.
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Cutting oils used for machining are a whole different breed. About the only use for any standard oil or lubricant in the machining industry is ATF for use in cutting Aluminum. All cutting fluids we use are purpose blended soluble oils that are mixed with R.O. water. They are referred to as coolants because that is their primary goal. To keep the cutting tools from overheating. Without them tooling would fail in the matter of minutes. Especially with many of the modern high speed, CNC machining centers in use today. Bill T.
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I went to Northern Tool & equipment, and got a big tube of lithium grease for like $1.97. Already had an empty syringe type applicator that I refilled with the lithium grease. I don't think I've used it on my AR, but I don't see any reason why it'd cause a problem either.
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I am relatively new to the AR. I played with M-16s as a cadet for four years, but we got a shamefully low amount of time with them as range time and ammo for cadets was priority zero. I can field strip and clean one, but lubing and maintence is not something they spent much time on. We were just given the rifles for a day and expected to have them back clean in the morning. Now I am mostly just using rem oil, which I know won't cut it. Do I need to go with a grease or will an oil do it?
FQ13
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For an AR-15 grease isn't necessary, and will just give dirt something to stick to. Remember grease + foreign material = lapping compound. Especially sand. Use a high viscosity oil. The problem with a lot of these "gun oils", especially Rem Oil is they are very thin. When the weapon becomes hot they get even thinner and don't remain where they're supposed to. I use Mobil 1 in a 20W-50 grade in all of my AR's. It has a nice thick viscosity and seems to stay where it's put better than anything else I've tried.
I've read and heard that Slip 2000 EWL, (Extreme Weapons Lube), is supposed to be really good in the AR-15. My 2 LWRC piston AR-15's came with a small bottle of it. To be perfectly honest after trying it I found the Mobil 1 seemed to last longer. That's important because a gun isn't like a automobile engine that is pressure lubricated by a pump. I keep the bolt lug area, wet by putting several drops on the lugs, and the lug recesses every 3 or 4 magazine fulls. It makes cleanup much easier because the carbon doesn't stick to everything. This chart is useful in directing where to place lubricant on the bolt and carrier of an AR-15. "L" refers to light, "D" refers to a drop, and "G" means generously apply lubricant. Bill T.
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8919/ar15boltcarrierlubepoin.jpg) (http://img297.imageshack.us/i/ar15boltcarrierlubepoin.jpg/)
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So would mobil1 atf be better than 0w40? If so can I use it in my handguns? Thirdly what do you use for your barrels?
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So would mobil1 atf be better than 0w40? If so can I use it in my handguns? Thirdly what do you use for your barrels?
If you live in California 0W-40 isn't really necessary. I use 20W-50 because I like the thicker viscosity because it adhears to the metal better, thereby offering better protection. I use the Mobil 1 in this weight on all of my firearms, barrels and all. When I'm done cleaning my barrels, I run several dry patches through to be sure to get any and all of the solvents out, then saturate a patch with the Mobil 1 and run it through the barrel several times. I then wipe everything down, and that's pretty much it.
If you know you will be hunting in rainy conditions, put a good, heavy coat of the Mobil 1 on all of the exposed metal parts of the gun, and it will eliminate any rusting potential. Back when I lived in Chicago in the 70's we used to hunt ducks and geese in southern Illinois. As anyone who's hunted them know, the best conditions to bag birds are, "Misty mornings and Moonless nights". I had several hunting buddies through the years who had their guns rust on them because of the rain, mist and foggy conditions. I kept mine saturated with the Mobil 1 until we got back to the motel, then wiped it down and reapplied it. I never once had any rusting issues ever. Bill T.
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Take a look at MILITEC-1. It is a liquid lub that becomes a dry impregnated lubrication. It protects metal surfaces with a constant impregnated molecular bond of synthetic-based hydrocarbon derivatives which will not change any tolerances inside or outside of weapons. MILITEC-1 works within the molecular structure and micro-pores of metal and non-metallic surfaces of weapons.
MILITEC-1 is approved and is being used by the U.S. Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Drug Enforcement Administration, Internal Revenue Service, State Department and many other state and local law enforcement and correctional agencies.
http://www.militec-1.com/
I have been playing with MiliTec in my 1911 and comparing it to Rem Oil and Hoppes Oil in the Glocks and AR and haven't seen any significant difference, but I don't shoot any of them as often as I should. The one thing about the MiliTec is it isn't inherantly a rust preventative. None of the stuff I've used it on HAS rusted, it just wasn't designed to do that is all.
I have to politely ask, who "taught you" this? No offense, but armorer's know squat about lubricants. They know what they themselves are "TOLD". No more, no less. They cannot prove anything they say lubrication wise with direct fact, anymore than anyone else can.
Actually that is where I got the MiliTec, the Beretta factory with an implied endorsement. Of course MiliTec pays for lunch at the end of the week and hands out bottles of the stuff and cases of it were in the classroom. One of the guys in the class, LA Co Sheriff IIRC, uses it by 55 gallon drums in the weapons, and of all places the cars too. Supposedly improves mileage and reduces wear if a pint is added to a tank of gas periodically. Can't afford to try that to prove it one way or the other but would be interesting to find out.