The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: yuri gagarin on February 15, 2010, 01:56:12 PM
-
I love the show and watch every opportunity I get, but I have never seen a show or even a magazine article discussing the use of dogs for home or street defense. I've lived in a bad neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY and my Rottweiller had an imposing presence when I walked down the street. He was always alert, and was my first line of defense in my home, car, and on the street. He was backed up by my Springfield XD .45. My rottie has since passed away, but my big, black giant schnauzer is carrying on the tradition. Is there a show planned on dogs for defense? Does anyone know of any good books or programs for the civilian use of dogs?
-
Welcome aboard, don't forget to introduce yourself in the Cafe section.
I am sure I am the first of many who will chime in on this thread, I just happen to have the first free moment. Dogs are great! I have a large German Shepard Dog myself, he is a great companion and a wonderful deterent, however that is where his usefulness ends when it comes to reliable self defense. Since I never spent the money or time to have him properly trained I cannot rely on him 100% to get the job done. That is not to say he hasn't or won't but it is not something I trust my life on. If persay you were to invest in top notch training and have the ability and mindset to treat your dog like a guard dog it would be a different story, still I prefer relying on myself because I know that I have a better shot at taking the appropriate action.
I don't know who said it but applies in the same fashion.
"Just because you can play the guitar, it doesn't mean you are a rockstar."
So replace a few words and you have your answer.
-
In this case its more like "Just because you own a guitar doesn't mean you can play it". The dog, untrained, is good for detterence and a burglar alarm, nothing else. (although mine will lick an attackers face, something I refuse to do, no matter how "tactical" it might be. Rob may disagree). ;D Thing is, a big scary looking dog should help you avoid some trouble, but if that doesn't work, its up to you. Jde is right here. Unless you want to go to the time and trouble (as well as considerable expense) to get your beast trained to police dog standards, don't count on him. And again, its a lot cheaper and easier to acquire and maintain pistol skills than to train and maintain a working dog in top form. My experience is with bird dogs, but the principle is the same. Hours of work every week, no shortcuts.
FQ13
-
Dogs are great and I own a 10 pound "Tacticool" Yorkshire Terrier. ;)
On the street, he's good for picking up chicks and the chasing off field mice......at home, if a squirrel farts in the middle of the night, he wakes up the 250 lb fella with a 1911 on the nightstand!
;D
Either way, he serves the intended purpose for his existence and keeps the wife company.
-
Had a very good discussion with another member here about the pros and cons of dogs both big and little. Depending on your plan for protecting yourself and your family during a break-in, home invasion, etc,... there is a good chance the dog may also get shot, injured, or stabbed, if the BG(s) have a weapon.
Granted, a 150lb Rottweiler, will scare the crap out of an intruder or two, there is a chance the BG(s), if armed, will just shoot the dog.
Dogs are great for back up "Brinks Security", my little "Toto" aka "rat dog", makes a lot of noise, but he will run away, as he's a big wuss. :-\
But that's OK, he hears better than me, and will provide a precious few seconds to implement my home defense plan. However, I have to prioritize my families well being first, dog second.
Regardless, if your big dog attacks the BG(s), follow your plan to protect yourself and family. As much as I love my damn dog, I love my wife more,.. ;D (Yes the wife is watching me, so to avoid the "ding" to the back of my head, I am going to protect her first).
::)
Welcome to DRTV yuri, post a pic of your schnauzer, dog pics are almost as good as gun pics.
tw
-
Uncle Jeff put it down like this, dogs are early warning devices and very good at it, never depend on them to face the BG, it really sucks if they get hurt, but it sucks much worse if a human loved one does. Been on the other end of a dog being released on me, in the end, nothing died, but that female pit had a .40 with the trigger 3/4 back at her head, as she approached me her demeanor was all smiles and happy and she turned back to her owner at not a 10th of a second too soon, learned a valuable lesson that night. The main thing the dog did was divide my attention between her and the owner, both active, and not cool. On the other end, had my dog been dividing attention away from me, well that's a bonus and appreciated, if they live they get a full steak from me, if not, a very decent burial in the back yard. Not that I would not cry and stuff for their sacrifice.
-
Rottweilers are great dogs. It is a shame Germany abandoned the breed registry, there's nowhere for the breed to go now.
My favorite Rott story was the big boy who kept his masters home safe. When the dude arrived home one day he found the slider part way open and a severed human hand on the floor with the dog lying close by.
If you think your dog might have the right stuff, (defense, aggression, prey) then you should have the dog tested by a knowledgeable trainer. The most important thing after capability is obedience in drive and good outs. Grip development is part of the deal and it is "easy" to train your dog to sit quietly until you tell him to fight. A good dog is part of an organized home defense, not a melee. Like a poster said, the sad part is that they can be first for the bullet. A really good dog likes to fight and does it from strength but these are hard to find.
-
I have a Rhodesian Ridgeback, about 105 lbs of solid muscle. He protects mom and he is her constant companion. When he is laying around the front courtyard no one comes in without permission. I've seen the UPS guy just put down the ammo deliveries at the gate, very gently so as not make the dog alert, and now no solicters or mexican strawberry sellers ever come through the gate anymore.
Just his mere presence is a deterrent. I have him trained to many voice and non-voice commands that both of us use on him...but I don't have him trained to "attack". His insticts are so good for his "animal, dog, breed" ancestry that I am confident he will do his part. But I don't want him "attack trained" as that would be a red flag in his defence.
His imposing presence, loud voice, and that ridge going down his back seem to impress all the right people.
And, in about two weeks, he's getting a "little" sister. Were getting a Ridgeback female puppy that would be like a third or fourth cousin to him. The females are even more protective and definitely more coniving than the males. She'll end up about 85 lbs. I pitty the fool who tries to enter a house protected by two Ridgebacks, let alone one, and doesn't have permission to be there.
-
As you can see from my Avatar, mine is nothing more than a good friend for life!
-
If you're a long time dog owner you know that its pack mentality. 1 dog is useless if not properly trained. Two dogs will feed energy off each other and owners. They compete for affection. They can be very competitive in their social life and there fore very vicious as a team. I like a small dog large dog team, I have 3 dogs now. Small dogs are fearless and big dogs protect small dogs, so you have to understand their thinking and instincts. They will protect the pack.
-
You learned that by paying attention on "Liberty" ;D
The little guy talks trash and starts a fight that the Big guy has to bail him out of ;D
-
My pup Starla really likes to go on hog hunts with me. She's also a very good watch dog.
-
Is Starla a German Shepherd? Or possibly part German Shepherd? She looks like it.
-
She's German shepard with Aussie Shepard.
-
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/Walter-45-Auto/BoscosCampout010-1.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/Walter-45-Auto/BoscosCampout011-1.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/Walter-45-Auto/BoscosCampout013-1.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/Walter-45-Auto/BoscosCampout014-1.jpg)
-
Good looking dog.
Than there is the Terminator.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/image2970.jpg)
With two or three of these "puppies", you can leave the gun over the mantle....Just post the sign....
"We Don't Need Brinks"... ;)
-
Please Rob this House
The dog food bill is killing us. ;D
-
Dogs are awesome friends and can be excellent protectors. Personally I would not want my firend to be put in harm's way to protect me or mine. I rescued two Chows from the local doggie prison and they have proven to be highly effective noise makers.
They hear what I can't hear and see things before I can. All I have to do is pay attention to them. Not certain size matters unless it is a Working Dog. I would look for dogs with a naturally protective nature. If they are big, then it is all the better.
Otherwise, get a good noisemaker, let them roam the house at night and keep your firearm on your person or within arm's reach.
Best of luck!
-
......
They hear what I can't hear and see things before I can. .............
.....get a good noisemaker, let them roam the house at night and keep your firearm on your person or within arm's reach.
Isn't that the whole point of man domesticating the dog??? :) Also the reason I prefer my dog to stay in the house instead of the yard..... Well, that and, because he's a fence jumping, cat killing terror.... But that's another story......
-
Isn't that the whole point of man domesticating the dog??? :) Also the reason I prefer my dog to stay in the house instead of the yard..... Well, that and, because he's a fence jumping, cat killing terror.... But that's another story......
Hey Walter45,
Absolutely! That is one of the many reasons why we domesticated the canine. The original point of this thread was whether or not size is a factor.
My point is that the naturally protective nature of the animal is much more important than size. Especially if you are going to use it as a trained noisemaker. Some breeds tend to be better for watching the livestock while others are great for holding down the couch cushions. It is up to the potential owner to decide what he or she may want. My experience has brought me to my original statement. Choose a protective breed and permit them to run the house freely. Mine provide plenty of warning whenever some person, or other critter comes near the house. Then I can deal with it as my dogs are helpful friends rather than my choice of a self defense tool.
If the dog is to be a pure working dog trained solely for protection, then yes, size, temperament and breed do matter.
Stay Safe.
Scott
-
I agree totally. A chihuahua or pomeranian can do as good a job (Well those two breeds do it better than some) as some big dogs at that. Protection training aside, The thing I like about big German Shepherds, Dobermans, and Rottweilers, and the like, is when I'm NOT home, they're a deterrent, because they bark louder than thunder, and to the neighborhood crackheads and Gang bangers, they look SCARY! Had a friend who had a German shepherd 29 inches tall, but he LOVED EVERYBODY and rarely barked. Yet EVERYBODY who saw him thought he was protective, cause he was the biggest shepherd they'd ever seen. Nobody bothered her when she walked him.
-
My 14y.o. Yorkie/Poodle mix, Butch, is know as "Daddy's Little Target Indicator".....if only I could find a way to mount a laser on him.... 8)
I'm trying to train our new Corgi/Cocker mix to do the same....but she's too much of a scrapper to stay behind me....
-
My 14y.o. Yorkie/Poodle mix, Butch, is know as "Daddy's Little Target Indicator".....if only I could find a way to mount a laser on him.... 8)
I'm trying to train our new Corgi/Cocker mix to do the same....but she's too much of a scrapper to stay behind me....
Somebody at your house likes fluffy long haired dogs, don't they??
-
Dogs are great! I have a large German Shepard Dog myself, he is a great companion and a wonderful deterent, however that is where his usefulness ends when it comes to reliable self defense. Since I never spent the money or time to have him properly trained I cannot rely on him 100% to get the job done. That is not to say he hasn't or won't but it is not something I trust my life on.
I have to say that because they are a great companion, this is simply a bonus. Favorite dog I owned, a Rottweiler/German shepard bitch. She knew who belonged in the house and who didn't. She was also the sweetest with the kids (cousins, nieces and nephews) and wary of any adult that she knew/felt we didn't trust. She would "watch" a stranger without appearing aggressive and also stopped a thief in their tracks when my wife thought it was me coming through the door = she was in the bedroom and I got off work at 11pm, the dog was standing watch til I got home and shortly before I got there someone came in the door, saw/heard the dog (face-to-face), closed the door and left; didn't get a foot in the door. I used to "play" with her by punching her and letting her bite me in the arm (think police attack dog), she knew not to do this with the wife any kids, but knew her role when it came to a stranger in the house (she thought it was "play time"). She was also in complete control when in public and could be let off leash without concern. After this dog, I believe that animals can learn situational awareness the same as a person. Sadly she died last year of natural causes, you'll be missed Daisy.
-
It's not so much "Learning situational awareness". As an animal their survival depends on "situational awareness".
What is important is a dogs ability to learn the rules of engagement, in the "unnatural" human world.
-
The Wolf in my avatar was Apache Ten Toes 98% Wolf, 2 % Malamute. These are some of Apache’s offspring. They are 86 ½% Wolf. When these pictures wear taken they wear only six months old
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/39wolfgang/Wolfs%20and%20Things/Apachies%20Kids/018.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/39wolfgang/Wolfs%20and%20Things/Apachies%20Kids/019.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/39wolfgang/Wolfs%20and%20Things/Apachies%20Kids/023.jpg)
This Bruits and Sammy. Bruits is a Rottweiler and Chow mix and Sammy is part Wolf 50%.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/39wolfgang/Wolfs%20and%20Things/005.jpg)
Now this was Bear 98% Wolf
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/39wolfgang/Wolfs%20and%20Things/wolf3.jpg)
One thing about it I don’t have many visitors. People call first before they come to visit. The Game Wardens won’t even come on the place. At one time I had over 60 Wolfs of different percentages and seven of those wear registered 98%ers. There is only one Dog on the hole place, and he is the only thing that barks. I just tell people if you are going to climb over my six foot fences, just take your Tennis Shoes off, so the Rubber won’t make my Wolfs sick when the eat you.
-
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u261/PicSnic/People%20and%20Pets/SassyandCJ.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u261/PicSnic/People%20and%20Pets/GracieandtheTurkeyLeg.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u261/PicSnic/People%20and%20Pets/ThreeDogDay.jpg)
1st pic is our 2 that our gone now, my shepard and our big male cat, gracie our pup shes a boxer/bulldog, then sassy , willie and Boo
-
I think that "Bear" alone would get my undivided attention. As far as 60? That's three mag changes with an AR/AK if you're good. :o :o I do wonder if the gangs use your house to haze new members though. Yo, dawg, to get in you have steal a hubcap from this guy. Oh, and don't forget the cannon". ;D ;D ;D
FQ13
-
Never mind the Cannon, be wear of the Win. Mod. 12……..
-
The thing that sucks with dogs, even moreso with bigger breeds is you might be able to get a 10 year life expectancy out of them. It really sucks putting them down :'(
Ten years is just too short.
My mom is now on her 2nd Boxer. She inherited the first one when my sister died. I am really surpised at how little both boxers bark...which is like never.
My Vizsla on the other hand seemed to bark at everybody, which made him a good watch dog.
slight thread drift ahead...
If you are looking for a dog, please, please take a look at the Craig's List pets section first. It is surprising how many people are being forced to get rid of their pets. I guess it is the economy. Since I am in the St. Louis area I check west, east, north and south on Craig's List...so I check Kansas City, Indy, Chicago, and Memphis. I have seen some really gorgeous full bred GSD's and puppies lately.
If you can't find what you are looking for on Craig's List...then try petfinder.com next.
-
Great tip Tyler. I've never thought of i, but it seems like a good way to get a well socialized animal rather than a PTSD special from the pound. And your right, lots of folks are being forcd to move from a house they can't afford into an apartment or rental where they see the worlds saddest sign "No dogs allowed".
FQ13
PS you have a Vizla. Do you fly hawks by any chance?
-
I had a Vizsla.
I had to euthanize him on the day after Christmas 2005.
:'(
I got him for a very small fee at a no kill shelter back in the spring of 1995 in Fayetteville, NC, when I was stationed at Pope.
Nope, I don't fly hawks either....sorry....looking back on things now, I do wish I had gotten into the Air Force Academy's falconry club and learned how to train falcons. I'm living close to Scott Air Force Base, and they were...at least they were...running a falconry program out there to keep the birds from striking the aircraft. Maybe...maybe...I just could have parlayed my falconry experience into a civilian job like that....
Kinda like how I feel about not having done parachuting earlier, gotten on the parachute team and upgraded to an instructor and jumpmaster, I could have spun that into being an instructor on the weekends ...giving people those tandem jumps and/or video'ing people's jumps.
-
Tyler, I'm on my second Boxer (Sugar Rae) and there are times I can't shut her up. She has a bark that makes her sound like a man eater. She weighs in at 88 lbs. and she's a sweetheart. She loves kids and she will sit still while my granddaughters dress her up. Even so, she intimidates some people. Many think she's a large pit bull for some reason. It must be her brindle coat that confuses them.
I had a fawn colored male (Rocky Balboa) that weighed in at 110 lbs. Now Rocky was a brute. I had a neighbor tell me that when the mail man would go through the yard, Rocky would bark like a mad dog and jump up on the sill of the pig picture window and hit the glass (double pane) so hard with his chest that he thought the glass would fly out.
Not too many people would approach him. He would cause people to cross the street when we took him for walks. He was as gentle with the grandchildren as Sugar is. They could dress him up, poke at him and even pull on his ears and he wouldn't react at all to them.
I loved that dog. We had to put him down when he was only 7 1/2 years old because of cardiomyopathy. His heart deformed so bad it looked like a big softball on the scans. He couldn't lie down to sleep or hardly even breath. Out of all the different breeds that I've owned, the Boxer is one of my all time favorites.
-
I had a Vizsla.
I had to euthanize him on the day after Christmas 2005.
:'(
I got him for a very small fee at a no kill shelter back in the spring of 1995 in Fayetteville, NC, when I was stationed at Pope.
Nope, I don't fly hawks either....sorry....looking back on things now, I do wish I had gotten into the Air Force Academy's falconry club and learned how to train falcons. I'm living close to Scott Air Force Base, and they were...at least they were...running a falconry program out there to keep the birds from striking the aircraft. Maybe...maybe...I just could have parlayed my falconry experience into a civilian job like that....
Kinda like how I feel about not having done parachuting earlier, gotten on the parachute team and upgraded to an instructor and jumpmaster, I could have spun that into being an instructor on the weekends ...giving people those tandem jumps and/or video'ing people's jumps.
Sorry about your buddy. The reason I asked is that vizlas (as I'm sure you know) were bred as falconry dogs. They have a tendency to crouch on point and rarely range wide or rush to retrieve. Very rare to find among gun hunters, but fairly common, along with other NAVDA breeds among the falconers I flew with around Northern Virginia.
FQ13 who has a nice yard and a good dog, but live where its so over developed, there isn't even a vacant lot to fly a Kestrel on starlings, let alone excersise a red tail or cooper's. :'(
-
.....I had a fawn colored male (Rocky Balboa) that weighed in at 110 lbs......
That's a big boxer. I didn't know they could get that big.
-
That's a big boxer. I didn't know they could get that big.
Yea, I've seen some big ones. Rocky's dad was named Goliath, I don't know what that monster weighed in at.