The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: JC5123 on February 17, 2010, 08:43:56 AM
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Someone explain this to me. Toyota has massive recalls. Mostly because of peoples own stupidity. But besides that vehicles are very complicated machines and there are bound to be bugs in the system from time to time. (think windows here)
My question is this. If a company has the integrity to risk its reputation to satisfy its customers. (Even the stupid ones that don't understand that floor mats move and the pedals do catch on them) Why does Congress feel they need to step in and conduct and investigation? I mean give me a break, are the asshats in washington just looking for someone to take the heat off themselves for awhile?
And FQ don't try to feed me a bunch of "it's about safety" garbage. Toyota did this on it's own. When they decided to recall almost every vehicle they have produced in the last 4 years there had been 6 incidents. 6 out of what, probably 3 million vehicles? I wish I had that kind of safety rating.
I still stand behind this company. Because I believe they are one of the few left that still believe in customer satisfaction and making a quality product above anything else.
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Hey, don't look at me. As far as I'm concerned this is about as big a national crises as steroids in baseball. Don't these people have day jobs? >:( Seriously, it would be worth hearings if Toyota tried to cover it up like Ford did with the Pinto back in the day. That doesn't seem to be the case. If they had, you could argue new disclosure regs were necessary and thus justify hearings. As it is, its just Congress trying to get the votes of Toyota owners and their names in the paper. Congress is not an investigative body (absent their role in overseeing the executive and the courts). They should not be involved in overseeing the private sector and leave it to the NTSB and state agencies.
FQ13, who will remind you he is a libertarian and doesn't like the feds meddling in the private sector without darn good reason, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
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UNION vs NON UNION GOVERMENT MOTORS
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Our elected ... what polite word can I use since these clowns ain't the leaders they were hired to be ... are looking for the flash and glitz, media coverage, etc. that will get them reelected. Too bad they have no idea what they are talking about.
Count Toyota as the next failed business in the United States. Once the clowns get done with Toyota, nothing will have been accomplished except Toyota will have spent millions on travel and attornies, and Congress will have nothing else ... maybe this ain't such a bad thing ... keep 'em busy chasin their own tail and out of our hair ;)
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Hey, don't look at me. As far as I'm concerned this is about as big a national crises as steroids in baseball. Don't these people have day jobs? >:( Seriously, it would be worth hearings if Toyota tried to cover it up like Ford did with the Pinto back in the day. That doesn't seem to be the case. If they had, you could argue new disclosure regs were necessary and thus justify hearings. As it is, its just Congress trying to get the votes of Toyota owners and their names in the paper. Congress is not an investigative body (absent their role in overseeing the executive and the courts). They should not be involved in overseeing the private sector and leave it to the NTSB and state agencies.
FQ13, who will remind you he is a libertarian and doesn't like the feds meddling in the private sector without darn good reason, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
Fair enough. I just know how you like to play devils advocate. You hit it on the head though that this is simple meddling and nothing more. Anything to take the focus off the real agenda. I think Mudman has a very good take on this too. Anything that Congress can do to take away competition from the two auto makers that they own is going to force people to buy from GM, and Dodge. Allowing Congress to come back and tell us what a success taking them over really was... >:(
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Let's see if the gov't has the same initiative if "Gov't Motors", or Chrysler/Dodge, ever have another recall.
If I remember, the American car companies that issued a recall were a "blip" on the nightly news, and that was it. Regardless of ABS failures, transmission's jumping into gear spontaneously, cruise controls that were a fire hazard,...etc,..
This is just a thug Darth Rahm pressure push to motivate American car sales. According to recent sales figures from Motor Trend, Toyota is down 16% in sales.
Probably now a good time to get one.
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Fair enough. I just know how you like to play devils advocate. You hit it on the head though that this is simple meddling and nothing more. Anything to take the focus off the real agenda. I think Mudman has a very good take on this too. Anything that Congress can do to take away competition from the two auto makers that they own is going to force people to buy from GM, and Dodge. Allowing Congress to come back and tell us what a success taking them over really was... >:(
Hate to correct you here, JC, but I think mudman had it right - Toyota is non-union and did not take bailout money, so they must be broken. They are, after all, the leading car maker in the US and it just ain't right (according to the gummint anyhow). All that initiative and success and stuff?
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The cartoon caption says it all.
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/toyota-236069-politicians-global.html
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based on my previous post this week,
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=7298865
Chrysler IS RECALLING over 350,000 mini vans for a "chip" issue with its airbags...
Can't wait for the hearings......
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Hey, don't look at me. As far as I'm concerned this is about as big a national crises as steroids in baseball. Don't these people have day jobs? >:( Seriously, it would be worth hearings if Toyota tried to cover it up like Ford did with the Pinto back in the day. That doesn't seem to be the case. If they had, you could argue new disclosure regs were necessary and thus justify hearings. As it is, its just Congress trying to get the votes of Toyota owners and their names in the paper. Congress is not an investigative body (absent their role in overseeing the executive and the courts). They should not be involved in overseeing the private sector and leave it to the NTSB and state agencies.
FQ13, who will remind you he is a libertarian and doesn't like the feds meddling in the private sector without darn good reason, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
As I understand it the excuse for the hearings is that Toyota did exactly that, supposedly they were aware of the problem as far back as 07 and did nothing.
A profitable nonunion company can not hope to get away with that sort of thing with union stooges running the Gov.
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My $.02 on this deal.
toyota was neglagent.
here is why I think that.
Murphy is a SOB. Knowing that, one logically, would program the throttle control software to where when murphy strikes, the engine would not got to WOT. GM, For example has a max of 40% throttle when the drive by wire system is throwing out errors. Ford, MB, honda, BMW and several others have simlar systems. Toyota does not. why is it every one else was smart enough to figure it out, but toyota was not? That is the big question. I'd bet money is envoled in that answer.
It does not matter if some vendors part is bad or not, your software still has a HUGE oversite in it.
Now I can't speak for japan, but here in the states, every single engineering class, at some point teachs murphys law.
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I have also heard of problems with the STEER BY WIRE system as well.
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steer by wire,,, you have to be joking. what dumb ass would buy that?
The only reason they went to throttl by wire is to have more control over the engine to reduce emissions.
PS yes I know they have fly by wire systems in aircraft, but you can't compare that with a car. There is a reason why a new plane like a single engine cessna is $250k.
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Just a question, and I truly don't know the answer. Maybe someone else has a thought.
The EPA forces car manufacturers to integrate software designed at reducing emissions. Is it possible that this software (not produced by the manufacturer, but by a government controlled company) is to blame for many of the problems in the computer systems of our modern vehicles?
Again, not accusing, or defending anyone. Just a question.
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One thing to learn is that the gummint rarely does anything. The gummint did not provide the software, only sets rules that the manufacturers have to follow when writing their own embedded code.
Case in point - Medicaid. Medicaid is state-run but Federally sponsored and predominantly paid system. The average cost for a new Medicaid system is $100 million dollars to build their own system - most of which are now rules-driven. The US gummint could have saved probably $3-4 billion by building a system, doling it out to the states, and letting the states write the rules for that state's Medicaid program. No, they let the states spend the money and simply set the rules for what the systems should do.
I doubt that Toyota did anything radically different from what the other manufacturers do. Remember, the gummint has a stake is killing or seriously injuring Toyota. Toyota is in direct competition with the gummint in the car business now. Toyota is the top car company in the country (maybe the world?) with a stellar reputation for quality and value. Do you think the American consumer will see Toyota that way any more?
So the gummint has done its job, all it is now is a circus - and we're getting suckered into the show, not the substance. Pay no attention to that (car czar) man behind the curtain.