The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: sanjuancb on February 21, 2010, 11:51:11 PM
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I have the opportunity to buy a new rifle in the next few months. Primarily I'm a hunter and originally intended to buy a real big thumper (9.3 x 62, .375, 416 etc) but have decided on something more practical. I'm a big fan of handy, quick rifles and thought that a Savage 10 FCM Scout would fit the bill. I figured I would slap on a Leupold 2.5x scout scope in Millet QD rings and be good to go. What are your thoughts? I think that this rifle would work well as a multi-role weapon. I could hunt whitetails and coyotes with it, but it also would be a great intermediate range defensive weapon, and something that I could throw in my vehicle as well if I am traveling. It is especially nice because .308 ammo is relatively cheap (or it used to be) and available.
How well does a bolt-action scout work as a defensive weapon? As a hunting gun? I also looked at the Ruger Frontier and I liked it because it was available in .338 Federal and .358 Winchester, but the trigger sucks (compared to the Savage's Accutrigger) and there are no backup iron sights.
Thanks!
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Get a copy of Col. Jeff Cooper's The Art of the Rifle. It will explain the Scout Rifle concept well....esp. since Col. Cooper is the one who invented it. A Scout Rifle is a great general-purpose rifle for most issues when a more specialized rifle isn't handy.
Another thing to consider....Col. Cooper selected the .308Win round based on its power and its availibility. In places where .308 may not be available, the 7.62x54R may equal the power and the availability (it's still issued as MG ammo in most Communist-supplied countries). I'm tempted to make a Scout Rifle out of a Mosin-Nagant M44....plenty of rifles and ammo available now....
....and, if you decide on using a Ruger Frontier rifle, here's an interesting mod....
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=336733 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=336733)
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=410902 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=410902)
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I think the Savage Scout is an excellent choice! I currently own and shoot the Model 10-FP, and wouldn't mind one of these Scout Models just for use with the iron sights. Bill T.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCM%20SCOUT/
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The only problem with a scout rifle is the limited field of vision due to the scope being so far forward. I would choose the K-31 rifle for a scout, I like the straight pull and the round is strong. Of course Springfield has a pretty neat scout
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How bout an AR?
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I think the Savage Scout is an excellent choice! I currently own and shoot the Model 10-FP, and wouldn't mind one of these Scout Models just for use with the iron sights. Bill T.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCM%20SCOUT/
+1
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The only problem with a scout rifle is the limited field of vision due to the scope being so far forward.
It is meant to be used with both eyes open.
I don't know what is available, but this scout setup would seem to benifit from an illuminated reticle more than most. You would probably not use it much, but as far as versatility as a defensive rifle (at short range, in bad light) it makes the difference between point shooting compared to having a good fast sight picture.
For instance: On your way out of the woods at night, you get in between momma bear and cubs. Or Zombies attack when you get back to the truck.
About a year ago I helped a guy line up his new scope on a bolt gun. He was not really a "gun guy" and had bought a low end 6.5 to 14ish power scope with illuminated reticle. It got dark and we decided to play with the illumination. I found that at 25-35 yards or so I could make fast hits on target at 6.5 power even with the front lens cap on.
Something to consider anyway.
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How bout an AR?
I though about an AR, but even a DPMS in .308 is going to run $900 without optics.
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The only problem with a scout rifle is the limited field of vision due to the scope being so far forward. I would choose the K-31 rifle for a scout, I like the straight pull and the round is strong. Of course Springfield has a pretty neat scout
+1 on the K-31. Rifle is stout and accurate and the ammo cheap for surplus. The hunting loads will cost you a little more but about the same as .308.
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http://savageaccuracy.com/2010/02/22/eastmans-hunting-tv-week-of-222/
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I built mine like Colonel did on a Rem 788, in .308, it is a 6lb rifle and kicks like a mule, no butt pad, but I will fix that, both eyes open is the right outlook, light and fast, Uncle Jeff refined his much more, but I had a 788 to play with. Sims recoil pad on the way soon. Fun project, and I have built another one, an economy model, spanish mauser, in .308, with a tasco 2x,, pistol scope, sporterised, with the original stock, a very good loaner.115.00 in the whole package.
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I built mine like Colonel did on a Rem 788, in .308, it is a 6lb rifle and kicks like a mule, no butt pad, but I will fix that, both eyes open is the right outlook, light and fast, Uncle Jeff refined his much more, but I had a 788 to play with. Sims recoil pad on the way soon. Fun project, and I have built another one, an economy model, spanish mauser, in .308, with a tasco 2x,, pistol scope, sporterised, with the original stock, a very good loaner.115.00 in the whole package.
Theseboth sound very cool. Could you post pics?
Thanks
FQ13
PS, details on the mauser would be appreciated as I am always looking for a beater truck/hog gun. In the Glades, the damn things just don't last.
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Dutchman has been fooling with scout mounts and scopes on milsurp rifles for a long time. Check out some of the things he's done here:
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/ler.html
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I was under the impression that Col Cooper, while pleased to see his concept in production was disappointed at the final result, but his issues were with the rifle Manufacturer (Steyr ? It seems an odd choice .) , not the concept.
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IIRC Col. Cooper's issue with the Steyr was that it was too heavy.
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seeker two, you mean like this?
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Mosin_Nagants_PC140134.JPG)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1280011.JPG)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/1904_NM_upper_view.jpg)
I friend of mine (gunsmith in TX) built this 1891 Mosin dated 1904 into a Scout rifle back in the late 80s. Rifle was frist modified with a Bushnell Phantom 3x pistol scope on the barrel. However, it didn't hold up, first windage knob flew off and then the recticle went south. Of course this happened when you have a case of 7.62x54R to shoot on the range for the day and a bunch of Green Berets along with a SVD (around 92-93') So, the rifle sat in my safe next to my Polish M44 and about three years ago bought this NcStar Red/Green dot and a can of desert tan Krylon to fixed her up. Muzzle has two large ports on it and gives a beach ball size muzzle flash from the 16.25" bbl. Recoil with the steel butt plate is neligable as brake is very effective. Accuracy is min of man out to 200m. Stripper clip guide is still present had have several stripper clips in the pocket when woods roaming. Orginal cost was $40 then another $40 for the NcStar and paint.
CD
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Here's a few more. Can someone identify the reciever, should be Tula, Ishevsk or Sestroryetsk Arsenal. Gun may have started out a Dragoon or an Infantry (Infantry rifle oginally did not have the slot rear sling slot but a swivel which was phased in before 1910). Also would be interesting if the rifle was used in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904! (remember sportized before I got it!)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/91_reciever_rz.JPG)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/91_muzzle_brake.JPG)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/91_close_up.JPG)
Hope you enjoyed it.
CD
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Hope you enjoyed it.
CD
Always CD ;D
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seeker two, you mean like this?
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Mosin_Nagants_PC140134.JPG)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1280011.JPG)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/1904_NM_upper_view.jpg)
Very nice...esp. after the paint job. Call me a traditionalist, but I think I'll do mine with the traditional tube-type scope.
How does that comp work for fighting recoil? I can imagine the flash is probably awesome.... :o
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J&G out of Prescott, AZ, has Moisin's for $79.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/russian/p/mosin-nagant-91-30-hex-receiver-rifle%2C-7-62x54r-caliber-/cPath/209_261/products_id/1524
certainly one for the conversion that CD achieved.
Very Nice.
It's a scout rifle, not a sniper rifle, "man size target to 200m".....works, Period.
Thanks CD.
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seeker two,
Comp/brake works extremely well with the steel butt plate as it doesn't slam it against your shoulder. There is a BOOM with a very large muzzle flash (all that unburnt powder). Ballistics is still above 30-30.
CD
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There a Lithuian born US soldier here on my base. I had her read the inscription and it was made at Tula Arsenal. :)
CD
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J&G out of Prescott, AZ, has Moisin's for $79.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/russian/p/mosin-nagant-91-30-hex-receiver-rifle%2C-7-62x54r-caliber-/cPath/209_261/products_id/1524
certainly one for the conversion that CD achieved.
Very Nice.
It's a scout rifle, not a sniper rifle, "man size target to 200m".....works, Period.
Thanks CD.
If you buy 5 of them you can get them for $69 ea. I got my five last week and 10 more on the way. I have a shortened (17"barrel) M44 in the syn stock that is a really handy little gun.
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I though about an AR, but even a DPMS in .308 is going to run $900 without optics.
check out stag arms, if you buy the upper and lowers seperate you can get it at around $500. not top of the line with rails everywhere but more like a vietnam era AR
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If you buy 5 of them you can get them for $69 ea. I got my five last week and 10 more on the way. I have a shortened (17"barrel) M44 in the syn stock that is a really handy little gun.
Absolutely beautiful Mosins David! I like the Quality, as well as the Quantity! It pays to buy to groceries in bulk. Why not the same logic applied to firearms??? Bill T.