The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on March 06, 2010, 05:52:54 PM
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Well the tomato market has taken a big hit this winter, Florida (the leading supplier of winter tomatoes), has lost a substantial portion of its Spring market, and the prices are going up, and even "by request" initiatives are starting, (it made the NBC Nightly News).....
For those that can and like tomatoes, get a big pot or 3, and good soil and grow your own. Better Boys, Beefsteaks, Cherry, Roma, all can be grown in big pots.
Or designate, a 5x5 area of your yard and plant a couple. Plus the fried green tomatoes are good also. ;D
For those in the Great White North, I'd go the potted route, as your ground is frozen until May??? :o 8)
The ripple effect will cut into Bloody Mary's V-8, Tomato Juice, Marinara Sauce,....etc,.... :-[
Just thought with Spring around the corner, and if you like tomatoes, get em' in and growing.
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GF planted seeds indoors - we still have tons of wet, white slushy stuff on the ground in spite of 35+ degrees the last few days - plus sun. The largest plants are almost 6" at this point, 20 of them, mostly Romas IIRC for canning. We're ready - as soon as the ground thaws.
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I take the seeds from my cutting board and plant them. Celebrity is a good variety here. They are a fruit , so I trim them them like grapes and they do well.
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Do those upside down hanging tomato baskets from on TV work?
Thanks,
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My Mother had good luck with one of those.
The best way to get awesome tomatoes is to run them through a pig .
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Go to youtube and find out how to grow tomatoes upsidedown without buying the "as seen on tv" product. This is the year I plant another garden, pots and hanging vines will play a big part in my projects. I found that the food you like the best does not do as well as the less appealing vegetables.
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Go to youtube and find out how to grow tomatoes upsidedown without buying the "as seen on tv" product. This is the year I plant another garden, pots and hanging vines will play a big part in my projects. I found that the food you like the best does not do as well as the less appealing vegetables.
If you find yourself asking, "Why would ANYONE eat this sh!t ? " the reason is probably that it would grow where nothing else would ;D
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I take the seeds from my cutting board and plant them. Celebrity is a good variety here. They are a fruit , so I trim them them like grapes and they do well.
Don't know if it's always the case, but the second generation seeds that come from plants that have been genetically modified (i.e. from Monsanto) may grow nicely, but often won't fruit. They (Monsanto) does this so you can't grow seed crop and you have to buy seeds from them each season.
Crusader's wife, Bunny, grows various heirloom varieties and gets good results generation after generation. She tried the upside-down pots last season but got some kind of tomato virus that killed off the flowers before the plant fruited. Right now, we have some beautiful cherry tomatoes that managed to survive the frost and the plants are still producing lovely, sweet little red balls of juice that really perk up our nightly salads. I firmly believe food tastes better when you have a personal hand in producing/obtaining it. Catch a fish, shot a pig or a deer, or grow your veggies and they all taste better.
Thoughtfully offered by Crusader
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A question about seeds from the cutting board. I've got these great little tomatoes that are a bit bigger than a cherry and smaller than a Roma. They are about the only thing in Fl. that has taste due to the very evil Fl. tomato cartel (think Democrats want to stifle small business and innovation, they are miles behind Fl. tomato farmers >:(). Anywhoo, do I need to do anything to the seeds from the board in terms of washing (or not washing), or drying them etc, in order to get the best chance of germination?
FQ13
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FQ, it's been my experience that the closest thing to "natural" propagation yields the best results. We used to get some post seasonal toms from what grandma called "volunteers" or tomatoes that had fallen to the ground and self-propagated. They were always the tastiest of the year. Soooo, if you can take the seeds directly from the cutting board to an old fashioned cardboard egg carton wherein you have placed some quality, moist potting soil, you should have the best chance for success. Bury them under 1/2 inch of moist soil and keep 'em moist on the window sill until you have some hearty little seedlings. Then they can go to a pot or hanging basket, or wherever. You can just cut the egg carton apart as the cardboard will turn to mulch when left in the soil.
Bear in mind that you might not get any fruit from these seeds as Monsanto modifies their seeds not to produce from second generation seeds. And, Monsanto is one of the world's largest producer of seeds. Them and Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) another bunch of thieves dedicated to the destruction of the family farm.
Anyway, good luck with the project. I hope you get more tomatoes than you can possibly eat and some of your friends and neighbors are forced to share in your largess. Homegrown toms are really a treat when compared to the cardboard sold in Publix.
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CR,
I'm not definding where Monsanto, Pioneer, ADM, Cargil ... are taking us, but the seed issue is not intentional for the most part. Hybreds that have been used in ag for years have been poor producers when saving seed. We noticed it first in corn due to the extensive crossing in it, it has slowly moved through soy, alfalfa, oats and wheat. They more they cross them the fewer generations they can be used.
Anyone that has a good resource for heirlooms has it best. Those are the producers with the best flavor and nutrition. The only down side is that most crossbreeding programs help give uniformity that your guests won't wrinkle their noses at, and add strength against weather.
Time to go back to planning this years garden!
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Do those upside down hanging tomato baskets from on TV work?
Thanks,
They dont really retain much moisture..... they will either dry out or you have to water way too much. If you cant plant directly into mother earth, use a large bucket.
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CR,
I'm not definding where Monsanto, Pioneer, ADM, Cargil ... are taking us, but the seed issue is not intentional for the most part. Hybreds that have been used in ag for years have been poor producers when saving seed. We noticed it first in corn due to the extensive crossing in it, it has slowly moved through soy, alfalfa, oats and wheat. They more they cross them the fewer generations they can be used.
Anyone that has a good resource for heirlooms has it best. Those are the producers with the best flavor and nutrition. The only down side is that most crossbreeding programs help give uniformity that your guests won't wrinkle their noses at, and add strength against weather.
Time to go back to planning this years garden!
I disagree about it not being intentional. After all, these guys spend millions developing this stuff, what happens if one year you devote half your crop to seed? The next year you won't be back. Fair enough. Two problems though. The first is that they make seeds that are easy to farm, look pretty and have a long shelf life. Taste is an after thought. After all, its not the diner that pays thei bills, its the farmer and the grocery chains. We lose. The second problem is more serious. What happens when the grid goes down? The heirlooms are not only better tasting, but you can plant a seed plot. No need for the feed store. What happens when Monsanto can't produce and ship? To my mind it ain't pretty.
FQ13
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FQ -
You ever farmed or handled seed?
I'll leave it there for now.
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FQ -
You ever farmed or handled seed?
I'll leave it there for now.
"Farm" yes, handled seed from the feed store, again yes. Process my own, no. To explain, my grandad had a hobby ranch. 10 acres owned, grazing rights on another 150. I'm better with cows and horses than plants. He did have a 4 acre "garden" that I was the do boy for. I get your point about having no clue about having the knowledge to turn an ear of corn into a row of corn. Still, it can, and obviously was, done. It may be a lot of work, but it is a doable thing. My fear, and this isn't me beating on you, is what happens when or if we have to relearn that skill? It would be nice if the seeds cooperated. Thats all I'm saying.
FQ13
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Monsanto is an evil corporation.
1. They have gone around the world collecting genetic strains and pulling patents on them. This includes areas of Iraq where the farmers now have to either buy from Monsanto, or pay fees for descendants of the same genetic strains of grain their ancestors were growing thousands of years ago.
2. They have successfully sued farmers in the US who unknowingly grew "heirloom" plants that have been cross-fertilized with pollen from Monsanto plants from a neighbor's field. Monsanto has agents across the country sampling produce (by going into your fields and collecting samples without your knowledge or permission BTW) so they can sue anyone who is found with "their" propriety genetic strains.
3. Monsanto all but owns the FDA, which has allowed Monsanto's GMO (genetically modified organisms) to be introduced to the world-wide consumers without adequate testing - or even independent testing. Think about the incidence of diseases such as autism, obesity, cancer, etc. that have skyrocketed within the past decade. No one knows if there is a connection - and no one is looking thanks to the FDA - and Monsanto.
M58 - good, and appropriate, question.
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Good, your a farmer, than you will understand why companies like Monsanto have to pay big bucks to enforce the agreements that say you can not save seed from their modified crops. For those that don't understand, they need to use seed sales reps and the courts to enforce the contracts that they have to use, because you can use much of this seed (outside of corn) for many generations while only losing yield potential. Many farmers have learned how much yield potential they can afford to lose when comparing new seed prices to bin run costs (whatever the market is for the grain).
These agreements state that if you purchase their seed they have the right to collect samples of your crop next year and do DNA testing to see if you are breaking the contract. If you are caught breaking the contract there are huge costs in your lap! These companies take this serious, and their enforcement makes copy write enforcement look like a walk in the park.
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If you want some nice heirloom seeds, try seed savers exchange.
http://www.seedsavers.org/ (http://www.seedsavers.org/)
The only thing that annoys me is that their catalog doesn't have a zone map to see what grows best where.
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Home Depot, Lowe's have zone charts on most of their seed packets for zone. My strawberries are kicking nicely right now, too bad I didn;t get enough from my son in law who owns a farm in NC. He gets his strawberry seedlings from Canada. Really nice flavor.
Peppers as well work, jalapeno, thai, poblano, bell, work as well where tomatoes work. Same with herbs. I re-seed Basil, and really enjoy it. Oregano, Thyme, and Rosemary are perennial and grow in any well drained soil.
As for tomatoes, I just get the quart pots and give them a loving home for the season. Wife picks off the sucker stems, I try to avoid any pesticides, and resort to soapy water in a bottle with a little cayenne as a light spray. Also plant next to my Rosemary and Basil, they are naturally slightly carcinogenic and repel bugs.
I just really enjoy working on my small garden, had a large one in NC and went all out, and its my way of sticking it to the produce man. Mint works well also to repel bugs, and works great for Spring Mojitos. ;)
Grow what you can guys/gals, however you can, they taste better and aren't that hard to get going. If someone has a apecific question, PM me, my wife and I are closet herbalists, and home grown organic farmers, albeit on a moderate scale.
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While I admit that it stinks, Monsanto's actions are the INTENDED result of the body of the Constitution, which was written to offer protections to the investments of Europeans who had financed the revolution, but also to the ones who would finance the coming Industrial revolution.
One of the first duties of The Government, was to set up a patent office. Monsanto has only to say "Patent Rights" and few courts in the world will go against them.
Many countries refuse American food imports because of the things Path was saying .
Here's another thought, The Soviets bought HUGE amounts of grain from us over the years.
You think those Bulshy A hole's weren't trying like the devil to cross breed it to increase their own production ?
But every year they had to come crawling back to the "Main Adversary", Hat in hand, "But Sir, I just want a little more."
I'm of an age where I have been hearing about "oopses" like Thalidomide all my life, plus, I'm a Yankee ( ;D we call it "Frugal" ;D )
So I not only do not want to get the same plastic crap that I could have got out of a package, with out all the work, I also like the idea of only buying seed once.
TW, you guys should start Tip thread.
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For those that can and like tomatoes, get a big pot or 3, and good soil and grow your own. Better Boys, Beefsteaks, Cherry, Roma, all can be grown in big pots.
Melanie wants to do this. How big of a pot do I need? I was thinking along the lines of those barrels they saw in half?? What kind of dirt do we need? There isn't much in the way of "soil" out here in the desert, mostly dust and gravel. Bill T.
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I think heirloom is a great idea. I wish I could find the old time (60's and earlier) strains of strawberries. I was raised in the Strawberry Capital of Louisiana (not Ponchatoula) and I miss the very good older strains. Our school spring break was during berry picking season for 3 weeks or so when I was a child so that the children could help the parents on the farm...hardly any farms now though. Lots of subdivisions where farms used to be...if imports stop it's gonna be ugly.
Anyway, the strawberries have been bred for longevity so that they may withstand shipping and storage. These new berries ship very well, but they had to breed out the sugars and flavor to do it. Nothing grown since the earlier 70's has the flavor of the earlier berries. LSU produced a berry that was out-of-sight for flavor...loaded with sugars and flavor but it only lasted 3 days in refrigeration from the time it was picked so it went bye-bye.
I'm also going to continue a strain of okra that has been in my family for over 100 years...since the 1800's. Slightly larger in circumference and a lighter green than what you find in the store. Works well with those tomatoes I'm going to grow. I just wish the okra would grow earlier in the season but they like it hot. Maybe I should patent it?
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2. They have successfully sued farmers in the US who unknowingly grew "heirloom" plants that have been cross-fertilized with pollen from Monsanto plants from a neighbor's field. Monsanto has agents across the country sampling produce (by going into your fields and collecting samples without your knowledge or permission BTW) so they can sue anyone who is found with "their" propriety genetic strains.
Now that is evil. I doubt I'll every have a field to worry about this...but in my home county if it comes out that someone came onto my property for a sample it is possible that they will end up at least one night in the pokey...with a very unpleasant friend.
.... She tried the upside-down pots last season but got some kind of tomato virus that killed off the flowers before the plant fruited. .....
Crusader do you know that tobacco virus kills off tomato plants? I think it's call mosaic...I don't really remember, but gardens are infested by smokers touching plants and gardens. May not be the same virus because that is unusual to kill off the flowers, but if either of you smoke and stayed in contact with the plant then that's likely the deed.
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Melanie wants to do this. How big of a pot do I need? I was thinking along the lines of those barrels they saw in half?? What kind of dirt do we need? There isn't much in the way of "soil" out here in the desert, mostly dust and gravel. Bill T.
The half-barrel would work, so would a taller ceramic pot - the roots need room to grow and anchor the plant. Just don't put more than one plant in each. In a square foot garden, we allocate 3 squares per plant cuz they get bushy up top.
As for soil, any good top soil or potting would work. I would also add a lot of peat moss to help hold water and compost for nutrients, what with it being in AZ and all. Try to avoid stuff like miracle-gro soil, instead make your own compost out of household waste or use manure or other organic compost that comes in a bag.
I would keep the plants out of direct AZ sunlight especially through the summer, or the plant will get baked. Maybe set it in a shaded lanai or something like that, but even there keep an eye on it. Or set up a pergola with filter fabric over it as well. Check local nurseries to see what kind of help they can offer on what kind of filter fabric to use for tomatoes.
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Melanie wants to do this. How big of a pot do I need? I was thinking along the lines of those barrels they saw in half?? What kind of dirt do we need? There isn't much in the way of "soil" out here in the desert, mostly dust and gravel. Bill T.
I have seen people buy bags of potting soil, lay them out and cut a hole in the center, plant one plant per bag, and add drip irrigation. Personally, I would put the soil in a pail (with drainage holes. The smaller the container the more attention it will need for water. The upside is the ease of weeding and fungal disease.
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Let me give a huge thumbs down to the half barrells, at least here in Fl. They look good and are the right size. Problem is, they become infested with ants. Whatever they treat them with (the PC version of creasote) apperently attracts the little bastards. It killed my herb garden twice (no, not that herb ;D) before I figured out thatthe roots were getting eaten. I'd go plastic or terra cotta instead.
FQ13
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Melanie wants to do this. How big of a pot do I need? I was thinking along the lines of those barrels they saw in half?? What kind of dirt do we need? There isn't much in the way of "soil" out here in the desert, mostly dust and gravel. Bill T.
I use the half barrels with my tomatoes. A grape tomatoe in one and champion in the other, I replace soil and compost every year and have great luck with the barrel / tomatoes!
Path is right on with the soil, peat moss, compost and staying away from the Miracle-Grow soil.
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Out here we have to water the hell out of everything. What is the best over the counter nutrient to use? Bill T.
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Out here we have to water the hell out of everything. What is the best over the counter nutrient to use? Bill T.
Find a basic Tomato fertilizer. You will find both salt based (like farmers use) and organics (blood and bone meal based). Remember that tomatoes like acid, so something with a little sulfer wouldn't hurt. We have some old ladies up here that use coffee grounds in their gardens, and you should see their flowers and vegies!!! Of course there isn't a coffee ground in the dumpsters behind any eating place in town ;)
We have used MurAcid from Miricle Gro when we missed some things in spring, but it can get spending. Our soil is very alkali (7.2 - 7.6) and very heavy, so we need to do drastic things to grow good stuff. We compost everything that is not diseased and I had a lot of sand to the garden boxes.
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Out here we have to water the hell out of everything. What is the best over the counter nutrient to use? Bill T.
I wonder if a plugged up old bathtub on feet might work as a good planter. It is deep and water proof.
Roots would be able to grow deep and with opaque plastic sheathing as a mulch cover with X slits for the plants it might retain some moisture lost to evaporation. The sheathing would stop weed growth.
The water and nutrients would be contained. This would be like a "double dug" garden would work in a more moderate climate and soil conditions. Plants could be placed closer together because the roots grow down rather than sideways, maybe 3 tomato plants to a tub.
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I wonder if a plugged up old bathtub on feet might work as a good planter. It is deep and water proof.
Roots would be able to grow deep and with opaque plastic sheathing as a mulch cover with X slits for the plants it might retain some moisture lost to evaporation. The sheathing would stop weed growth.
The water and nutrients would be contained. This would be like a "double dug" garden would work in a more moderate climate and soil conditions. Plants could be placed closer together because the roots grow down rather than sideways, maybe 3 tomato plants to a tub.
Leave it to the Ohio boy! Next you'll be suggesting whitwashed old tires with geraniums in them to off set it. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13
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Leave it to the Ohio boy! Next you'll be suggesting whitwashed old tires with geraniums in them to off set it. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13
Actually I have had my best results with 'double dug' gardens, but figured they would not work well in what is likely sandy soil.
I was trying to think of a common substitute for the harder soil and the bathtub came to mind....thought it might give others a starting point for more options.
We send all our tires to Indiana, Penn. or KY, depending on our location. I don't do flowers :D
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billt, for a barrel cut in half, here is an old Iredell County, NC trick from an old farmer, take a 20oz empty plastic soda/water bottle. Punch small holes in the bottom third of the bottle. Like 6d nails, 8d.....kinda small. Bury the bottle up to the neck with just the top inch and a half showing.
Good ol Black Cow, Black Chicken if you can find it, mixed with any good potting soil, will do well. twice a month, take the liquid tomato food mixture, and pour it in the top of the partially buried bottle. The nutrients get directly to root level and is like an I.V. of the good stuff.
For AZ, the previous posts about some type of cover are warranted. An old piece of screen, like for patios, on a 4 point cover, just to break the sun's intensity off a bit. of broken sun, semi covered patio, etc,...
Also get the suckers. They are sprouts that appear at the "V" of the stems, kinda like a new growth out of the armpit of the branches.... just pluck/ pinch them off.
Make sure the cut barrel is well draining. Tomatoes love water, but hate long soaked roots, which will lead to root rot, and a weak plant. Gentle misting of the leaves with a couple drops of dish detergent or cayenne pepper in a little spray bottle will keep pests away.
I love my .45 caliber Beefsteaks, and Heirlooms , every year. It's not anything fancy just homegrown "mater's".... ;D
Solus, for hard sandy soil, find some chicken crap, or manure, from a farmer, or mix topsoil and the native soil in a wheelbarrow, pick the spot, and plant with the tweaked soil, Garden Lime, in modest amounts help hard soils, and partial shady areas, will help keep the soil from drying to rock hard consistency.
Just my .02 cents,....my wife is actually the mater junkie,...I just reap the rewards of making her smile when I come in with a big.............
tomato ;)