The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: ericire12 on March 08, 2010, 08:19:40 AM
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So, I am tossing around the idea of putting a laser on my little buddy:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=8796.0
Right now I am leaning towards Armalaser. It is a lower price point then CrimsonTrace, and right now they are offering a free Nemesis holster.... I also think that I would like their instant on feature better then the CT nub.
So, for those of you mouse gunners with lasers give me some feedback - I am also still not 100% convinced I am going to get one yet.
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As soon as I purchased my LCP I put on the Crimson Trace laser unit. I am very happy with it; installation was simple and it fits well. At the time it came with a soft Galco pocket holster.
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I also have the Crimson Trace on my LCP. It is good quality and nice fit.
The only problem I have with it is that it takes loosening/tightening the grip to turn it off and on. This is not a major problem, but if the Armalaser only comes on with the trigger finger is put inside the guard and turns off when it is removed, that would be nice, if quality is otherwise equal.
I do not know how the Armalaser operates, so I do not know if it works as I would like it to.
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I also have the Crimson Trace on my LCP. It is good quality and nice fit.
The only problem I have with it is that it takes loosening/tightening the grip to turn it off and on. This is not a major problem, but if the Armalaser only comes on with the trigger finger is put inside the guard and turns off when it is removed, that would be nice, if quality is otherwise equal.
I do not know how the Armalaser operates, so I do not know if it works as I would like it to.
It does turn on with the finger in the guard and then turns off 12 seconds after it is removed.
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The Crimson trace laserguard i put on my LCP was with out a doubt money well spent. The MSRP of $209 isnt that bad but look on ebay, Midwest Tactical Supply sells them for $159 shipped.
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I've got the KelTec PF9 with a CT laser guard on it. I like the instant on instant off feature of the crimson unit vs the 12sec off feature of the armalaser. I want to maintain control over when the laser is on and off. A laser that's on when you don't want your position given away in the dark it could be a bad thing. Just like a flash light, light discipline is important to consider. :-\ Like the slug I got mine on Ebay for $159 shipped to my door! I actually bought the laser before I found the gun. like you when I was looking for my PF9 nobody had one. I had to drive halfway to Seattle to Buy mine and it cost me an extra $30 over what my local store charges when they have them. :P But I like what I got! ;D
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I've got the KelTec PF9 with a CT laser guard on it. I like the instant on instant off feature of the crimson unit vs the 12sec off feature of the armalaser. I want to maintain control over when the laser is on and off. A laser that's on when you don't want your position given away in the dark it could be a bad thing. Just like a flash light, light discipline is important to consider. :-\ Like the slug I got mine on Ebay for $159 shipped to my door! I actually bought the laser before I found the gun. like you when I was looking for my PF9 nobody had one. I had to drive halfway to Seattle to Buy mine and it cost me an extra $30 over what my local store charges when they have them. :P But I like what I got! ;D
I agree about the light discipline. It is what I was looking for when I commented about the Armalaser. 12seconds are two long. Instant is what I am interested.
My problem with the CT is that there are times when losing/tightening the grip, I do not get it to turn on/off without some concentration. I was hoping the Armalaser might be a way to avoid that and still give instant on/off.
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I agree about the light discipline. It is what I was looking for when I commented about the Armalaser. 12seconds are two long. Instant is what I am interested.
My problem with the CT is that there are times when losing/tightening the grip, I do not get it to turn on/off without some concentration. I was hoping the Armalaser might be a way to avoid that and still give instant on/off.
The Armalaser has a master switch that will instantly turn it off when wanted. Flip the switch to go low profile until you put your finger back in the trigger guard......
But come on, I dont really see myself ever trying to hunt down a bad guy in a dark building with a P32 - thats a little more Hollywood then real life. I am just thinking about it as a means to increase my percentages (and speed) for head shots when I cant really get a good site picture and/or while dealing with the adjrenaline dump
*eBay has them for the same price as their website ------------> $119
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*eBay has them for the same price as their website ------------> $119
I'm not sure what website your referring too. ??? The LG 430 retails for $209 on the CT website.
If you can find it for that price you should pick it up for sure! I've never seen it anywhere close to that price.
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Frankly (and it pains me to say this) Eric is riht. AAAGHT! Damnit! Eric is righ!. For most of us, any engagement will, for good or ill, be over in less than 12 seconds and at a distance measured in feet not yards. My question would be "How quickly does it turn on"? Not how lng does it take to turn off. I have been in two real life life SD situations. Both were very quick, very close and accuracy at 25 yards was not an issue. I want the dot between the eyes for the second (of fraction there of) the booger hook crosses the bang switch. 12 seconds later, I'm either calling 911 and my lawer or I'm dead. A fire fight MIGHT develop, but most likely it will a car jacking at bad beathe distance that you didn't see coming until its riight here right now.
FQ13, jst my .02
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I'm not sure what website your referring too. ??? The LG 430 retails for $209 on the CT website.
If you can find it for that price you should pick it up for sure! I've never seen it anywhere close to that price.
The Armalaser is $119..... not the CT ::)
* I've actually found it for as low as $112 but I'm not sure if it comes with the free nemesis holster.
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The Armalaser is $119..... not the CT ::)
* I've actually found it for as low as $112 but I'm not sure if it comes with the free nemesis holster.
AWHA :-\
I'm not sure witch is better having no experience with the armalaser. I can say I think you should buy one or the other because I think the laser is an excellent tool for a SD gun. I can say I like the CT activation switch it's instant on instant off. So pick one, buy it, install it, and shoot it! ;D
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Oh and if you pick the Armalaser give us a range report on it. ;)
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Frankly (and it pains me to say this) Eric is riht. AAAGHT! Damnit! Eric is righ!. For most of us, any engagement will, for good or ill, be over in less than 12 seconds and at a distance measured in feet not yards. My question would be "How quickly does it turn on"? Not how lng does it take to turn off. I have been in two real life life SD situations. Both were very quick, very close and accuracy at 25 yards was not an issue. I want the dot between the eyes for the second (of fraction there of) the booger hook crosses the bang switch. 12 seconds later, I'm either calling 911 and my lawer or I'm dead. A fire fight MIGHT develop, but most likely it will a car jacking at bad beathe distance that you didn't see coming until its riight here right now.
FQ13, jst my .02
As for you FQ, the reason I like instant off is picture this. An armed intruder breaks into your house, your wife grabs your gun and hides behind your bed calls 911 and waits..... bad guy peaks around the door, your wife being scared and nervous aims; laser dancing; and fires, bang, bang, bang. Bad guy ducks back out of sight, did she hit him or not? If she missed I don't want the BG to stick his gun around the corner next and start shooting at the little red light on the other side of the room! This is all a what if and it doesn't have to be Eric's little pee shooter either, it can be the M&P9 I keep their for my wife just in case.... I guess my bottom line is light discipline, a laser just like a flashlight needs to have instant on/off ability. Of course if you don't agree with my .02 worth you don't have to follow it! But I think it's the difference in a good defense and the best defense!! ::)
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As for you FQ, the reason I like instant off is picture this. An armed intruder breaks into your house, your wife grabs your gun and hides behind your bed calls 911 and waits..... bad guy peaks around the door, your wife being scared and nervous aims; laser dancing; and fires, bang, bang, bang. Bad guy ducks back out of sight, did she hit him or not? If she missed I don't want the BG to stick his gun around the corner next and start shooting at the little red light on the other side of the room! This is all a what if and it doesn't have to be Eric's little pee shooter either, it can be the M&P9 I keep their for my wife just in case.... I guess my bottom line is light discipline, a laser just like a flashlight needs to have instant on/off ability. Of course if you don't agree with my .02 worth you don't have to follow it! But I think it's the difference in a good defense and the best defense!! ::)
That might be a plausible scenario and somehting to consider with regards to a nightstand gun, but I am not as worried since this will be for a carry gun....... If I like the setup my next laser will be for the 26 (also a carry gun) and then somewhere down the line will be a decision about my night stand gun.
*By the way, my night stand gun is a Glock 17 with a 33 rd magazine...... The above mentioned scenario will involve 31 more rds then your referenced "bang, bang, bang"..... My wife understands the difference b/t cover and concealment :)
**Exit Question: Anyone know how to hang drywall?
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That might be a plausible scenario and somehting to consider with regards to a nightstand gun, but I am not as worried since this will be for a carry gun....... If I like the setup my next laser will be for the 26 (also a carry gun) and then somewhere down the line will be a decision about my night stand gun.
*By the way, my night stand gun is a Glock 17 with a 33 rd magazine...... The above mentioned scenario will involve 31 more rds then your referenced "bang, bang, bang"..... My wife understands the difference b/t cover and concealment :)
**Exit Question: Anyone know how to hang drywall?
That's a good option! I've never heard of someone complaining that they took too much ammo to a gun fight. Definitely look in to the laser options for it. I have lasers on ALL but one of my SD guns! And that one being my Colt Mustang Pocket Lite .380, which is mostly retired cause I haven't found anyone making lasers for the Mustang. If I could afford it I would probably put them on all my guns but alas my pockets aren't that deep! :( And very few homes ever have much in the way of cover in them! As most 9mm's could penetrate one end of my house to the other, I can't think of a single place in my home that has TRUE cover. A few places might work if the stars all line up right! ::) I'm going to have to work on that I think, but don't have much space to work with though. My hold up corner (where the gun and cell phone is stored) is okay but not great, the BG would have to shoot though 5 ft of mattress and box spring. Don't know if that would stop a pistol round or not? Probably not? Maybe Rob and MJ could try shooting though a quality foam mattress width wise for us on the TBD Season 3 like they did with the refrigerator in season 2.
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$99 on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/ArmaLaser-Kel-Tec-P3AT-Laser-System/dp/B001MYGM0U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1268180085&sr=8-1
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I have the CT on my LCP and it never seems to stay zeroed. I zero it on the sights, get to the range and it's pointing high and right at 15'. I'll need to check to see if the holster is moving it...
A side note Pro Mag 10 round mag for the LCP (http://www.amazon.com/LCP-380-ACP-10-BLUE/dp/B002KMW5IG/ref=pd_sim_sg_5)
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I have the CT on my LCP and it never seems to stay zeroed. I zero it on the sights, get to the range and it's pointing high and right at 15'. I'll need to check to see if the holster is moving it...
A side note Pro Mag 10 round mag for the LCP (http://www.amazon.com/LCP-380-ACP-10-BLUE/dp/B002KMW5IG/ref=pd_sim_sg_5)
Check to make sure the little allen screws are tightened correctly! If one fell out it could be a problem, I've not had any difficulties with any of my current CT grips and I have 6 of them. I did have a set of LG405's on my PD340 and the rubber started to tear, I sent it back to Crimson Trace they sent me a new one that I sold and used the cash to purchase a set of lg305's for the better grip with the .357 mag.
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$99 on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/ArmaLaser-Kel-Tec-P3AT-Laser-System/dp/B001MYGM0U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1268180085&sr=8-1
UPDATE: Ordered it today ----------> $105.25 shipped
Everything I have read on other forums and all the reviews are very positive of the quality of these things. And the 2 or 3 times I've read that someone got a crappy one, Armalaser gave them a new one asap and then they have been very happy. I'm excited..... cant wait to get it. :)
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We'll be expecting porn/range report.
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That's great Eric let us know how it works for you!
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UPDATE: Laser just came in today. I got it installed, and I really like it. If it holds its zero I think I will be very happy.
*More to come after extensive shooting.
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Good shooting! Laser Guy..... ::)
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UPDATE: Laser just came in today. I got it installed, and I really like it. If it holds its zero I think I will be very happy.
*More to come after extensive shooting.
Good shooting! Laser Guy..... ::)
That'd be Buck Rodgers to you!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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UPDATE: Laser just came in today. I got it installed, and I really like it. If it holds its zero I think I will be very happy.
*More to come after extensive shooting.
And do not make Star Wars sounds while shooting with the laser.......... ;D ;D
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And do not make Star Wars sounds while shooting with the laser.......... ;D ;D
But they ARE ok During dry fire practice.
However, if you wear a storm trooper or Han Solo costume to the range, there's no hope left for you. ;D
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Good shooting! Laser Guy..... ::)
That'd be Buck Rodgers to you!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
And do not make Star Wars sounds while shooting with the laser.......... ;D ;D
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I didn't know you were such a star Eric! :o ::) :P ;D
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Getting back on topic.....
I will go ahead and speak on this..... Like I said, I ordered the laser through Amazon b/c it was $20 cheaper, and I was not sure if it would come with the free holster that they are offering right now...... and it didnt. So, I called them up and after getting the first guy to pass me on to his manager so I could try to actually get some resolution all I got was a polite explination that it didnt work that way. It basically went like this:
Me: You guys are offering a free holster with purchase right now. Why would this purchase not be elligable?
Armalser guy: Well, I can upgrade you to the $119 combo that includes the holster if you want.
Me: So, its not really a free holster...... Its a $20 holster being advertised as free?
Armalaser guy: Well, we sell these lasers at a discounted price through Amazon just as a special promotion.
Me: None of your advertising says that the purchase has to be made through your website, and its not like I bought this through a third party resale... The lasers you sell through Amazon should also include the free holster being offered during this promotion. I was very disapointed that what I received was not what I ordered.
Armalaser: Well, I am very sorry, but we cant do that.
*Like I said, they were very polite, but they didt care..... Jokes on them though. With a few minor stitch removals, my standard Nemesis holster works just fine.... You can keep your $20 holster, Armalaser!
**After I got off the phone, I was really mad at myself for not name dropping "CrimsonTrace". Something along the lines of...... "No I dont want to pay an extra $20. If I wanted a laser at a higher price point, I would have just gone with CrimsonTrace." ;D
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Cabelas isn't the cheapest place to buy thing but I bought a Nemesis holster there for $14. :P
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Put 75 rounds through it and am very happy.... Full range report asap
*the kel-tec also performed great
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And if'n ya need an OWB holster for that LCP ( with or without star wars laser ) I might *cough cough* know who makes them....
;)
http://andysgunthoughts.wordpress.com/ruger-lcp-holsters/
Andy ( secret LCP holster maker to the stars )
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Okay, here's my question.....Do you really need a laser on a pistol that's intended range is point blank to a few feet?
I went to the range yesterday with my P3AT, and using a paper plate at 3 & 5 yds, they were all in the plate.
Just asking, as I tried some 10yd shots some time ago, and realized it's much tougher to get anything resembling a "group" at distances.
P.S. I'm just asking, not bashing. 8)
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You might not always be at point blank range if it happens to be the only weapon you have when you need it and a laser will help with any kind of aimed fire with the poor sights on the weapon.
In any close encounter I don't think a nice two handed stance or any sight picture will be available. In any kind of 'out of position' shot the laser will make the difference. I don't expect to be able to take a proper stance with any encounter where this pistol is used.
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After watching the Crimson Trace DVD, I agree lasers have there place, can be an asset in non traditional, offhand, on your back shooting positions.
For me, in the land of sun and shorts, its tough to add anything on the exterior of a "mousegun".
I am going to put some CT's on my M85 Snub though, as it won't change the holster, but the pics I've seen for the laser attachment for the P3AT, would make it a wee bit "bulkier" for pocket carry, in shorts, and my nemesis holster makes it look like a wallet, instead of a holster.
Just my .02 cents. I'm looking forward to a range report eric.
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After watching the Crimson Trace DVD, I agree lasers have there place, can be an asset in non traditional, offhand, on your back shooting positions.
For me, in the land of sun and shorts, its tough to add anything on the exterior of a "mousegun".
I am going to put some CT's on my M85 Snub though, as it won't change the holster, but the pics I've seen for the laser attachment for the P3AT, would make it a wee bit "bulkier" for pocket carry, in shorts, and my nemesis holster makes it look like a wallet, instead of a holster.
Just my .02 cents. I'm looking forward to a range report eric.
The now make a Nemesis that has room for the laser.
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You might not always be at point blank range if it happens to be the only weapon you have when you need it and a laser will help with any kind of aimed fire with the poor sights on the weapon.
In any close encounter I don't think a nice two handed stance or any sight picture will be available. In any kind of 'out of position' shot the laser will make the difference. I don't expect to be able to take a proper stance with any encounter where this pistol is used.
That was pretty much my major reason for getting one.... I will also add we all know that with any sub caliber gun shot placement is everything -- a laser really makes it much faster to get those shots accurately on target and especially at contact distances when you cant really get into a traditional "weaver stance"
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Okay, here's my question.....Do you really need a laser on a pistol that's intended range is point blank to a few feet?
I went to the range yesterday with my P3AT, and using a paper plate at 3 & 5 yds, they were all in the plate.
Just asking, as I tried some 10yd shots some time ago, and realized it's much tougher to get anything resembling a "group" at distances.
P.S. I'm just asking, not bashing. 8)
The number one reason for a laser on a mouse gun - low light/night self-defense shooting. I have an LCP and picking up the sight in the daylight is a challenge but it is a point shooter so it is OK. However, at night that changes dramatically especially if an attacker is is not providing a full frontal body sight picture. Add in movement (both you and the attacker) the chemical dump your body provides combined with low light - I think the laser is a great shooting aid. That being said I will know how to shoot the gun without the laser.
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The number one reason for a laser on a mouse gun - low light/night self-defense shooting. I have an LCP and picking up the sight in the daylight is a challenge but it is a point shooter so it is OK. However, at night that changes dramatically especially if an attacker is is not providing a full frontal body sight picture. Add in movement (both you and the attacker) the chemical dump your body provides combined with low light - I think the laser is a great shooting aid. That being said I will know how to shoot the gun without the laser.
Very well put. I really think the laser does a great deal to speed up shots ON TARGET..... And like I said, when shot placement is 90% of the equation, the laser is invaluable. I was also discovering with dryfire practice that my point shooting was actually putting me slightly off target to the right or left when I thought I was actually on target. Once I got the laser zeroed and was playing with it, I was amazed at how much margin of error there was with the sights actually "lined up".
To address Twacht's concern, the laser actually makes the gun print even less then without. It gives it more of a blocky profile, and makes it very hard to distinguish it as a gun.
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Good to know, I need to "fondle" one and check it out.
Thanks.