The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on March 08, 2010, 12:48:17 PM
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Heard Bama again this noon. He is fighting for his "health care" reform and upset that the insurance industry was profitable. He blames the Republicans, because they had ten years to reform health care and did nothing.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but:
#1 We are not reforming health care today, but trying to change insurance;
and #2 The Republicans did nothing to fix health care except to try and change tort, make doctors accountable for duplications, crack down on insurance, welfare and medical assistance fraud.
Let's see ... I recall many attempts at #2 under a few leaders since the 80's, but they could never get it through ... Hum .... Who would have pushed for that ???
If you want to fix health care you need to fix health care and their changes rather than giving a blank check to the health industry and subsidizing the insurance payments from the gov ... our checkbooks.
Insurance company profits are not the big issue. Runaway inflation and duplication in health providers is the root! I go back to my claim that if we could get by without health insurance in as recent history as the 50's and 60's, basic health needs should not be out of financial reach of the average American worker this soon.
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My Dad always said that, "Figures never lie but liers figure." I'm sure he did not orginate the saying but there is truth in the saying.
We are hearing figures from Obama and his minions that the profit and profit increases if insurance compaies is, well, obsene. I have seen that figures that profits have increased by nearly 60%. The peoblem is if you made a profit last year of $1.00 and the next year the profit is $1.60 you had a 60% increase in profits.
Other statistics indicate that insurnce compaies profit margin only averages 2.2% on revenue.
I found this discussion on NewsBusters from October 2009 - AP's Woodward Fact-Checks Health Insurance Company Profits, Finds Them 'Anemic'
LINK: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2009/10/26/aps-woodward-fact-checks-health-insurance-company-profits-finds-them-ane
From the atricle: Quick quiz: What do these enterprises have in common? Farm and construction machinery, Tupperware, the railroads, Hershey sweets, Yum food brands and Yahoo? Answer: They're all more profitable than the health insurance industry.
It is worth a look.
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If they really wanted to reform health care they could, but they don't want to do that, they want to make a big name for themselfs and get relected.
5 easy things that would do a bunch of good.
1 make it so every one has to pay the same price for health ins. why is it half the price if I join on a group plan vs me joining alone?
2 Make doctors accountable, none of this geting your lic yanked in one state, then going to another and practicing. no more passing of the buck crap.
3 help doctors with thier student loans. you know offer more progarms like come work for us for 5 years and will pay off your student loans.
4 Make doctors donate XXXX ammount of time a year to free clincs to help those that can not aford healthcare.( this one really ticks off most doctors)
5 go after fruad aggressively.
I've made this comment before. If I screw up and cuase the loss of some ones leg, there is no cap on the damages that they can get, yet if my wife screws up and cost some one thier leg, there is why?
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Tab,
A good list, but #1 is not heath care ... a good idea, but it does not address actual health care or its costs.
Start with everyone being individually responsible for their own costs. If you do this the old maxim "what will the market bear" will drive costs down.
Second, require every health care provider #1 hand out a price sheet explaining what this is going to cost if you do it, and #2 an itemized statement for goods and services rendered when you bill the patient.
I can tell volumes on health billing abuses that come from the insurance side, and even a few of my own when I questioned what I was paying out of my own pocket. However, with insurance and/or gov paying the bills most people don't care what it costs. If you are paying yourself you bet you care what it costs, and you will hold them as responsible for their charges as when you take your car in for a repair.
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What I ment was, you should charge a person the same, rather they join thru a group plan or are joining just by themselfs.
explain to me why when I was working as a industrail painter, it cost me $350/ month. yet when I tried to join after I lefted that job they qouted me 600 for the same plan. Thats what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about charge the same price for a healthy person in thier 20s and one in thier 80s.
I agree that many people abuse health care, but doctors do too. My wife always comments about people having very expesnive tests/ scans done when they don't need them.
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What I ment was, you should charge a person the same, rather they join thru a group plan or are joining just by themselfs.
explain to me why when I was working as a industrail painter, it cost me $350/ month. yet when I tried to join after I lefted that job they qouted me 600 for the same plan. Thats what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about charge the same price for a healthy person in thier 20s and one in thier 80s.
Perhaps someone or some group was subsidizing your coverage by $250 per month.
Another quote I'll add: George Will, "Confiscate all the profits of all the health insurance companies, with those profits you could finance our healthcare for 48 hours."
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Tab,
A good list, but #1 is not heath care ... a good idea, but it does not address actual health care or its costs.
Start with everyone being individually responsible for their own costs. If you do this the old maxim "what will the market bear" will drive costs down.
Second, require every health care provider #1 hand out a price sheet explaining what this is going to cost if you do it, and #2 an itemized statement for goods and services rendered when you bill the patient.
I can tell volumes on health billing abuses that come from the insurance side, and even a few of my own when I questioned what I was paying out of my own pocket. However, with insurance and/or gov paying the bills most people don't care what it costs. If you are paying yourself you bet you care what it costs, and you will hold them as responsible for their charges as when you take your car in for a repair.
Thing is, even with you're open billing, which I support, you're still screwed. I don't know what I need in terms of tests. Further, a prudent doctor won't let you go a'la carte either. Suppose I want X and Y, but not Z tests because in my unquailfied opinion I don't need it? 1 year later I get cancer. Test z might have detected it. Forget lawsuits, will the AMA punish this guy for failure to excersize due diligence? Yep. Another thing. I don't have insurance. My not inconsiderable bills I pay out of pocket. Many Docs won't touch me when I say say my service provider is Visa. Why? They get payed cash on the barrel head, no delays and no quibbling from Blue Cross about fee rates. Still, no insurance, no service. What's up with that? My doc, who took me a while to find, actually gives me a discount for cash, based on the above reasons. Her answer to my question was that the insurance companies (restraint of trade be damned) don't like the competition. As a solo practitioner she can get away with stuff larger medical groups can't. True or not I don't know. What I do know is that I was denied services at 6 doctors before I found one who would take cash. WTF?
FQ13
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Perhaps someone or some group was subsidizing your coverage by $250 per month.
Another quote I'll add: George Will, "Confiscate all the profits of all the health insurance companies, with those profits you could finance our healthcare for 48 hours."
nope, as a biz owner, I can tell you how it works, the more employees you have on health ins the cheaper it gets. even with 3 employees/ familys and myself on a group plan it was down to about $450/ month. buying in bulk just makes things cheaper.
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Fortune magazine reported the health insurance industry has a 2.2% profit margin..... It aint "big insurance's" fault
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Fortune magazine reported the health insurance industry has a 2.2% profit margin..... It aint "big insurance's" fault
but there are lots of health ins companys out there that are non profit. kiaser for example.
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but there are lots of health ins companys out there that are non profit. kiaser for example.
I have missed your point. If they are non-profit that means they have to play by the non-profit rules under which they are incorporated.
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Fortune magazine reported the health insurance industry has a 2.2% profit margin..... It aint "big insurance's" fault
but there are lots of health ins companys out there that are non profit. kiaser for example.
Public traded companies (fortune 1000)....
Here is the link:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/industries/profits/
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FQ,
The reason they won't deal with you is that they know you will call BS on them. I'm not saying it is the doctor per se, but most doctors are a part of some organization that is "sell, sell sell." I watched it happen with the clinic I used to go to when the owner sold to a large group to start his retirement. Suddenly my checkbook was no good. We were farming and had no insurance, so I switched to another clinic that was private ... no problem.
As long as you have insurance they can charge for anything and everything, and you won't say a word cause it all goes to the insurance company. If you pay, you demand itemization, and you question. All this means their profits get hit.
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Just heard another update on bama and the great health care reform:
Said nothing about healthcare, but talked about insurance premiums going up at a rate of double digit inflation :o Can you imagine that ... insurance premiums go up ... wonder what causes that ... could it be that medical bills are inflating at double digit rates ???
I know that the head is empty, so what part of his body do you hit to get his attention >:(
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I know that the head is empty, so what part of his body do you hit to get his attention >:(
The teleprompter...
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The teleprompter...
Is that secret code for Michele?
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Is that secret code for Michele?
Michelle is the true "Puppet Master". Barry hasn't had a conscious thought of his own since they met....
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Michelle is the true "Puppet Master". Barry hasn't had a conscious thought of his own since they met....
Kind of like W. and Cheney. Ahh, the romance......
FQ13 ;)
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Kind of like W. and Cheney. Ahh, the romance......
FQ13 ;)
What happens inside the "Beltway" stays inside the beltway.... Anyone wanna guess if Michelle likes Dick?
;D
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But this Government and "untouchable" Trust funds do not have a good record ( Social Security ring any bells ? )
By the way FQ, one of the things she is hopefully getting away with is not reporting your cash ;D
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Actual solutions to the healthcare issue seem in rather short supply. But, much of what we don't like about it can be fixed with a few relatively minor changes. First, reform tort laws and place maximum caps on damages awarded (with severe limits on how much the lawyers get). Second, allow insurance companies to sell anywhere in the US. There is no reason why Blue Cross should be half of Florida's price when the policy is sold in Kentucky and free-market forces will lower prices. Third, educate the American people that insurance is for the major health crises that may occur. There is no need to go the the ER for a headcold. On the other hand, having a legitimate and longterm illness shouldn't force you to sell your house. Fourth, require proof of legal residency before you get to see a doc. Yes, healthcare is a border issue, too. Estimates vary, but without exception the experts agree that treating illegals dramatically drives up the costs for everyone.
And TAB, there is a convenient word for forced volunteerism: slavery. We fought a war over it awhile back. Slavery wasn't a good idea then. That hasn't changed.
Submitted for your consideration,
Crusader Rabbit
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Actual solutions to the healthcare issue seem in rather short supply. But, much of what we don't like about it can be fixed with a few relatively minor changes. First, reform tort laws and place maximum caps on damages awarded (with severe limits on how much the lawyers get). Second, allow insurance companies to sell anywhere in the US. There is no reason why Blue Cross should be half of Florida's price when the policy is sold in Kentucky and free-market forces will lower prices. Third, educate the American people that insurance is for the major health crises that may occur. There is no need to go the the ER for a headcold. On the other hand, having a legitimate and longterm illness shouldn't force you to sell your house. Fourth, require proof of legal residency before you get to see a doc. Yes, healthcare is a border issue, too. Estimates vary, but without exception the experts agree that treating illegals dramatically drives up the costs for everyone.
And TAB, there is a convenient word for forced volunteerism: slavery. We fought a war over it awhile back. Slavery wasn't a good idea then. That hasn't changed.
Submitted for your consideration,
Crusader Rabbit
Only thing I disagree with is the illegals thing. I'm petty militant on immigration law, but this won't fly. Doctors are oath bound to treat the sick, and they for the most part take this as seriously as any Marine takes their oath. Telling them they can't treat someone will have you as #2 in the waiting room. ;D
FQ13
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Only thing I disagree with is the illegals thing. I'm petty militant on immigration law, but this won't fly. Doctors are oath bound to treat the sick, and they for the most part take this as seriously as any Marine takes their oath. Telling them they can't treat someone will have you as #2 in the waiting room. ;D
FQ13
No, they are NOT oath bound to give away their services and medical supplies for free. ::)
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. Third, educate the American people that insurance is for the major health crises that may occur. There is no need to go the the ER for a headcold. On the other hand, having a legitimate and longterm illness shouldn't force you to sell your house.
Only thing I disagree with is the illegals thing. I'm petty militant on immigration law, but this won't fly. Doctors are oath bound to treat the sick, and they for the most part take this as seriously as any Marine takes their oath. Telling them they can't treat someone will have you as #2 in the waiting room. ;D
FQ13
I see this and have been living this for a while. When I was full time, and now volunteer, EMS our call volume was/is based on economics. The higher the income the less we saw of them. The people that had health care insurance and had more available money would rather take themselves to the hospital than call an ambulance, unless there was a real emergency. At the saem time the lower income families call for, seems like, EVERYTHING; lLow grade fevers, bloody noses, to diabetic or cardiac issues. Most of the major calls are issues that simply aren't taken care of to begin with, not taking meds for example. Then we get there and they insist on going to the hospital for a stomach ache, been going on for a month, at 2am, with a dozen cars in the driveway and 10 driving age people sitting in the living room. You call, we haul, it's that simple.
On the other side of that I just sent over $1k out for a couple of tests done at the local hospital. The biggest part of it was the fact each procedure was paid out to upwards of four different organizations. The Dr gets one check, the techs another, then the lab for the bood work, and finally the hospital itself for the building and equipment. There has to be a better way but it was explained to me that each group has different insurance requirements and is covered in a group policy but the hospital supplies te building for them to work. The DRs and techs don't get paid by the hospital, they get it from the group. Everybody's a contractor!
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No, they are NOT oath bound to give away their services and medical supplies for free. ::)
I was reffering to the ER. I didn't make that clear. There, they are. In the office, no.
FQ13
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I was reffering to the ER. I didn't make that clear. There, they are. In the office, no.
FQ13(D)
Still has nothing to do with their hypocratic oath
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No, they are NOT oath bound to give away their services and medical supplies for free. ::)
Have to go with FQ on that one, at least ERs. There are laws in place that states that someone on hospital property asking for care WILL be seen and treated or the hospital gets fined. There are plenty of people that walk into an ER and are told to wait, then call for an ambulance to take them to another hospital. The ambulance actually responds but can be canceled by the ER staff but if the patient leaves in the ambulance that hospital gets a pretty big fine. How LONG a person stays in the ER and how they are discharged is another matter. Lots of "frequent fliers" that get in the door and are back out before the ambulance is even done with the paperwork.