The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: ellis4538 on March 16, 2010, 03:34:06 PM
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Even if you have a gun, here's a more humane way to wreck someone's evil plans for you....and you can carry it in your car with no problem!!
Did you know this? I didn't. I never really thought of it before.
I guess I can get rid of the baseball bat.
Wasp Spray
A friend who is a receptionist in a church in a high risk area was concerned about someone coming into the office on Monday to rob them when they were counting the collection. She asked the local police department about using pepper spray and they recommended to her that she get a can of wasp spray instead.
The wasp spray, they told her, can shoot up to twenty feet away and is a lot more accurate, while with the pepper spray, they have to get too close to you and could overpower you. The wasp spray temporarily blinds an attacker until they get
to the hospital for an antidote. She keeps a can on her desk in the office and it doesn't attract attention from people like a can of pepper spray would. She also keeps one nearby at home for home protection.
Thought this was interesting and might be of use.
On the heels of a break in and beating that left an elderly woman in Toledo dead, self defense experts have a tip that could save your life.
Val Glinka teaches self-defense to students at Sylvania Southview High School. For decades, he's suggested putting a can of wasp and hornet spray near your door or bed.
Glinka says, "This is better than anything I can teach them."
Glinka considers it inexpensive, easy to find, and more effective than mace or pepper spray. The cans typically shoot 20 to 30 feet; so if someone tries to break into your home, Glinka says "spray the culprit in the eyes". It's a tip he's given to students for decades.
It's also one he wants everyone to hear. If you're looking for protection, Glinka says look to the wasp spray.
"That's going to give you a chance to call the police; maybe get out."
Maybe even save a life.
Please share this with all the people in your life!!!!!!
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Thanks never thought about that one.
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Good to remember these tricks...
I wonder if they come in Black Cans with a collapsible lid?
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Wasp spray is nasty stuff. The antidote is atropine( which isn't really an antidote it is a cholinestrisase blocker).
Same thing we use to carry as nerve agent antidote.
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Can I use it on my northern European, protestant relatives? ;D
Seriously, good idea! I know I don't even like spraying the stuff it's so nasty. Maybe it's the wasp in me!
;)
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Wasp spray is nasty stuff. The antidote is atropine( which isn't really an antidote it is a cholinestrisase blocker).
Same thing we use to carry as nerve agent antidote.
Isn't that the stuff they told you to slam into your thigh?
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yes, Im taking the large injector between my thumb and fore finger and injecting myself into the meaty portion of my thigh, I am now turning into a quivering bowl of jelly as the Atropine and the pralidoxime is delivered into my blood stream.
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Isn't that the stuff they told you to slam into your thigh?
Yep. Later they changed to 2PamChloride.
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I'm not too sure that I would use a product that could permanently blind someone for self defense. The law suite that followed would more than likely ruin you financial and you could end up in jail for using a product that you "KNEW" could do this type of damage.When I was taking the NY state Armed guard class my instructor told us to stay away from any "devastator" type ammo as this could be used as proof that you didn't want to just stop someone you wanted to kill or punish them above and beyond what a court may dole out. I'll stay with "mainstream" self defense tools thank you.
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Yep. Later they changed to 2PamChloride.
I dated her in college, didn't I? ;D
Majer is right - absolutely do not use this stuff. Unless you are attacked on your porch, and there is a wasp nest above you, and you have to use it as a last-ditch weapon, a good lawyer will saute' you alive in front of a jury. The mind boggle at all of the ways you will get hung out to dry.
Using wasp spray is equivalent IMHO to "shooting to wound" or firing a warning shot. Just say no, don't do it, be serious about your defense. Do not look for gimmicks.
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I guess I'm thinking with a Bourne Attitude. Fight with what you got! I have a pistol but if I'm in the garage and the wasp spray is easier to get a handle on. You bet your ass I'm reachin for the wasp spray
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I guess use what you can with what you have. If your alive to survive a lawsuit, that (as one of my instructors said), is better than the alternative.
Here's another, "Better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six".
I used to carry a AMP roto crimp tool for work in my car, it also would shatter any bone it impacted if swung in a manner defending myself. More than likely, with a head shot, would have ended the attackers life, kinda a "Night-Stick" with a bulbous nasty end, almost like a mace but a little shorter.
It's a tool I use at work. BUT could use in other situations. I guess a large crescent wrench could kinda be the same thing, but now it's a good pocket knife, and a firearm.
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using a "weapon of opportunity" Vs a planned ahead use of a weapon is easier to defend against
" Why Yes Your Honor, I was in fear of my life when I picked up the closest thing I could use to defend myself and hit the attacker as hard as I could"
Or,
Yes Your Honor, I read somewhere that wasp spray would blind someone who was breaking into my house so I kept a can in every room to use against them, You know, Just in case"
Now which sounds more likely to have a Jury or Judge find in your favor?
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It doesn't matter. He fell into the can and sprayed himself. I just tried helping him wipe it out with steel wool... :D
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I dated her in college, didn't I? ;D
Majer is right - absolutely do not use this stuff. Unless you are attacked on your porch, and there is a wasp nest above you, and you have to use it as a last-ditch weapon, a good lawyer will saute' you alive in front of a jury. The mind boggle at all of the ways you will get hung out to dry.
Using wasp spray is equivalent IMHO to "shooting to wound" or firing a warning shot. Just say no, don't do it, be serious about your defense. Do not look for gimmicks.
Mayor and Path are right on the money. My mother got that email about a month ago. I spent at least 15 min explaining how bad an idea this really was! Hopefully I got through to her. If you station wasp spray for defense in places that you wouldn't normally have use for it you'll have a hard time explaining it away to a jury. I really think a better idea is to stay armed with your defensive firearm all the time is a much better idea!
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I'm not too sure that I would use a product that could permanently blind someone for self defense. The law suite that followed would more than likely ruin you financial and you could end up in jail for using a product that you "KNEW" could do this type of damage.When I was taking the NY state Armed guard class my instructor told us to stay away from any "devastator" type ammo as this could be used as proof that you didn't want to just stop someone you wanted to kill or punish them above and beyond what a court may dole out. I'll stay with "mainstream" self defense tools thank you.
That's about what I thought. The guy would sue you, and with the kind of lawyers that represent his type, he'd probably win. I'd rather just shoot him.
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True....a lawyer could make a case about you having wasp spray in your home. But your lawyer can easily defend your possession of a common household item fairly easily. And your lawyer can do it in a way to ellicit sympathy from the jury....
Having a lawyer as crafty and clever as the ones we always seem to worry about....THAT'S your best defense.... 8)
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using a "weapon of opportunity" Vs a planned ahead use of a weapon is easier to defend against
" Why Yes Your Honor, I was in fear of my life when I picked up the closest thing I could use to defend myself and hit the attacker as hard as I could"
Or,
Yes Your Honor, I read somewhere that wasp spray would blind someone who was breaking into my house so I kept a can in every room to use against them, You know, Just in case"
Now which sounds more likely to have a Jury or Judge find in your favor?
+1
What would 12 reasonable men in your locale think? What does the case law in your area support?
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What would 12 reasonable men in your locale think? What does the case law in your area support?
I live in MA, I don't know twelve reasonable men or women...
God Help Us!
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"The kindly Leo's of my city recommended it, and I trust their judgment." 1st defense, 2nd, I feared for my life, every defense.
As a history lesson, when I was about 7 yrs old, the next door bully and me tangled, he was older but still very young, maybe 8 or 9, outweighed me by 25 pounds, long story short, we tussled and he wound up sitting on my chest and punching me, no big deal as my POS paternal father regularly hit me with his fists, I was really hard to hurt, UNTIL, he hit me with a bicycle air pump in my teeth, that P*ssed me off, laying on my back in the entrance to the garage at my aunt's house I reached for what was there, a can of Raid, now that was 44 yrs ago, there was only 1 Raid, and I sprayed him in the face, at that time it was probably chlordane in the can, it achieved an immediate response, he could not breathe and looked extremely worried, he got off of me and ran next door to his house, followed by a trip to the emergency room, while he was gone, I started making weapons, out of rolled up newspaper and spent safety razor blades, fearing his retaliation, funny thing, he never even came close to bothering me again. 1 of the qualifiers of many that put me on the path of don't be a victim. I don't know if he learned his lesson, or his parents used it as a teachable moment.
Kinda feel sorry for him now, but I was defending myself on my aunt's property, and had not bothered him.
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".......
Kinda feel sorry for him now, but I was defending myself on my aunt's property, and had not bothered him.
That lesson is leaving people alone may have saved his life or kept him out of prison.....or kept him from being a wife beater. You never know.
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"The kindly Leo's of my city recommended it, and I trust their judgment." 1st defense, 2nd, I feared for my life, every defense.
As a history lesson, when I was about 7 yrs old, the next door bully and me tangled, he was older but still very young, maybe 8 or 9, outweighed me by 25 pounds, long story short, we tussled and he wound up sitting on my chest and punching me, no big deal as my POS paternal father regularly hit me with his fists, I was really hard to hurt, UNTIL, he hit me with a bicycle air pump in my teeth, that P*ssed me off, laying on my back in the entrance to the garage at my aunt's house I reached for what was there, a can of Raid, now that was 44 yrs ago, there was only 1 Raid, and I sprayed him in the face, at that time it was probably chlordane in the can, it achieved an immediate response, he could not breathe and looked extremely worried, he got off of me and ran next door to his house, followed by a trip to the emergency room, while he was gone, I started making weapons, out of rolled up newspaper and spent safety razor blades, fearing his retaliation, funny thing, he never even came close to bothering me again. 1 of the qualifiers of many that put me on the path of don't be a victim. I don't know if he learned his lesson, or his parents used it as a teachable moment.
Kinda feel sorry for him now, but I was defending myself on my aunt's property, and had not bothered him.
I think the point that might be missed by some is, you used what was available! You didn't place the can their with the intention of using it against another person. If someone today takes a can a wasp spray and carries it around the house with them or stations several cans around the house in strategic places for defense, well I just think their going to have a hard time defending that in court. Be it in criminal or civil court. I think you would have a better chance of using good pepper spray or a firearm!
And I think I would ask those kindly LEO's if they're also willing to take the stand in your defense if you ever do end up in court for using wasp spray! Your word that they recommended it probably won't pass muster.
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What I would say as a LEO. It was self defense, and be happy they did not spray you in the face with a 12 gauge. Now go to prison you dirt bag for breaking into someone elses castle.
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What I would say as a LEO. It was self defense, and be happy they did not spray you in the face with a 12 gauge. Now go to prison you dirt bag for breaking into someone elses castle.
That's the response I would hope for! But I can't afford his Mama's lawyer suing me for blinding her perfect little baby boy, and now she's going to have to take care of him when he gets out of prison, as she cry's Poor Poor Pitiful Me! ???
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Sue his little mama first. She raised a dirt bag that tramatized your family, screw her.
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Why can't more LEO's think like you?
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Why can't more LEO's think like you?
More of them do. You just don't see them in the press making headlines because if they do then they are public haters. When in actuality it is the position that should be supported.
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More of them do. You just don't see them in the press making headlines because if they do then they are public haters. When in actuality it is the position that should be supported.
I think the problem is actually more with the bosses that play the political game with their elected masters rather than use common since and sound professional knowledge! ???
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I think the problem is actually more with the bosses that play the political game with their elected masters rather than use common since and sound professional knowledge! ???
Yeah.. That too. I miss my job at the LE center that I use to work for every day. I am so much better now that I'm at a place where the drama is kept to a minimum. It is bad enough to deal with the drama of the public just to turn around and have to deal with the drama of the office.
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Why can't more LEO's think like you?
what the LEO thinks means nothing. its what the DA, judges and jury think.
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what the LEO thinks means nothing. its what the DA, judges and jury think.
Plus what their Dept. tells them to think. We live in the age of "zero tolerance", which translates to the age of no room for initiative. You follow the rules, no matter how illogical, and you're covered, as you were "following procedure". Use your own judgement and you are on your own, as your agency will go the mat to defend its rules, but will cut you loose in heart beat if they have to defend YOU, rather than themselves. Cops get the message. Why do you handcuff the unresisting 75 year old you arrested? Just following procedure. Max Weber wrote about this 100 years ago in "The Iron Cage"(of bureacracy), with an update from Hannah Arendt in the "Banality of Evil" (cheerful lot, those Germans). We're lucky enough to see it come to fruition. :-\
FQ13
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That lesson is leaving people alone may have saved his life or kept him out of prison.....or kept him from being a wife beater. You never know.
Good point. While walking home from junior high, I was walking past a broken fence that opened to a cement part of a drainage ditch that the local kids used for skateboarding and doing drugs. One of 2 brothers who were known as thugs and were known to have ties to a Santa Ana street gang yelled at me to come over, so he could throw me off of the 15 foot drop. I kept on my own path and ignored him, but he came after me and beat me pretty good, to the point where all of my braces on my front teeth had torn into and were stuck on the inside of my mouth. My mom called the police and they had us file a report that amounted to a slap on the hand. I don't think they'd learned the same lesson as if I'd don some actual damage. 8 or 9 years later, with some pretty long criminal records, these 2 brothers and 1 of their cousins finally killed a 14 year old girl at a party. Their families sent them running to Mexico, but they were finally caught and are serving life sentences. Every time I drive past their parents house, I get a little angry that the legal avenues that are allowed to us were so useless against these animals. I imagine that I'd be even more pissed if I were the murdered girl's dad.
As far as wasp spray goes, I wouldn't do it in California. It's kind of setting yourself up for a felony, like carrying a baseball bat in your car as a weapon. Also, I'd hate to get in the car in summer and have the can explode with my family or myself in the car.