The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: SinisterS on March 19, 2010, 12:38:19 PM

Title: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: SinisterS on March 19, 2010, 12:38:19 PM
Which is preferable?  Earmuffs are cumbersome but the plugs are uncomfortable.  Which do you prefer?
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: MLC on March 19, 2010, 12:45:02 PM
Honestly, I use both.  If you only want to use one or the other, give a couple different styles of earplugs a shot.  Surefire makes some really nice ones in different sizes.  Maybe you'll find a good fit there.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Walter45Auto on March 19, 2010, 12:50:55 PM
Muffs. In my experience plugs don't work when the guy next to you fires off his .50 cal. Desert Eagle. (My one and only time using plugs. Of course they weren't the custom molded kind, so I dunno about those.) Muffs work better, and I don't want my hearing to get any worse than it has to.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: tekoken on March 19, 2010, 12:52:35 PM
Muffs all day!
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: red364 on March 19, 2010, 12:55:40 PM
I use plugs on good hair days and muffs on bad ones   ;D
Nah, really, I use muffs most of the time, they just seem to work better.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Timothy on March 19, 2010, 12:59:30 PM
I use both sometimes but more importantly, use a device with a minimum of NRR 29, prefereably higher.  I use NRR 33 plugs or NRR 33 muffs.

Gunshots register about 164 decibles (more indoors).  The higher the NRR rating the less damaging wave enters the ear canal.

NIOSH recommends using subject fit data based on ANSI S12.6-1997 [or most current edition] to estimate hearing protector noise attenuation.

If subject fit data are not available, NIOSH recommends derating hearing protectors by a factor that corresponds to the available real-world data. Specifically, NIOSH recommends that the labeled NRRs be derated as follows:

Earmuffs - Subtract 25% from the manufacturer's labeled NRR
Formable earplugs - Subtract 50% from the manufacturer's labeled NRR
All other earplugs - Subtract 70% from the manufacturers labeled NRR
1. When the noise exposure level in dBC is known, the effective A-weighted noise level (ENL) is:

ENL [dB(A)] = Workplace noise level in dBC - derated NRR
2. When the noise exposure level in dB(A ) is known, the effective A-weighted noise level is:

ENL = Workplace noise level in dB(A) - (derated NRR -7)
There are other single number ratings available. For details refer to the Canadian Standard CSA Z94.2. Another single number rating is based on (Subject Fit) Real Ear Attenuation measurements, known as Single Number Rating (Subject Fit 84th percentile) and abbreviated as SNR (SF 84) (for details see ANSI Standard S12.6). "SF 84" indicates that 84% of the users in a well run hearing conservation program are expected to receive at least that much protection.



Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Hazcat on March 19, 2010, 01:09:13 PM
Plugs when hunting or shooting rifle.   Muffs otherwise.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: ellis4538 on March 19, 2010, 01:22:37 PM
I use electronic muffs which amplify speech and other normal sound but cut out the sound from gunfire.  I am hard of hearing and these help me hear the sound of the buzzer going off when I shoot comp.  I would also suggest trying to find someone who will mould custom earplugs...possibly an eardoctor.  These are a lot more comfortable.  Make sure you get a chord to hold them together so that you can take one or both and hang them around your neck.

JMHO

Richard
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: TAB on March 19, 2010, 03:06:15 PM
both
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: CDR on March 19, 2010, 03:36:22 PM
I prefer electronic muffs by far.  I have a pair of Peltor Comtacs as well as Sordin MSA Supreme 3 Pro +.  The Sordins are my favorites but the Comtacs are a close second.  I actually shoot better with the electronic muffs as the overall sound wave seems greatly reduced and allows me to focus in on the front site better as I don't blink when shooting.  It's also wonderful to be able to hear everything that is going on around you, including ejected brass hitting the floor and people who sneak up behind you.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Big Frank on March 19, 2010, 04:34:05 PM
I wear disposable earplugs. I tried wearing earmuffs at work but it felt like my XXL head was in a vise. I don't know if they make earmuffs for fatheads. The earplugs are cheap enough to use a new pair every time, and have a pretty high NRR - better than some earmuffs.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: philw on March 19, 2010, 04:55:54 PM
i use what ever..  not fussed   



better than nothing   or my fingers   ( can not shoot when putting fingers in your ears )
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: PegLeg45 on March 19, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Usually both.
I'm looking at a set of Howard-Leight electronic muffs at Cabela's.. a lot of the guys at the range use and like them. They are around $70 or so.

Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: bjtraz on March 19, 2010, 06:18:03 PM
I use both, actually. Depending on the situation, I have molded ear plugs for rifle/shotgun shooting, and electronic muffs for general use/pistols. And have, on occasion used both together at busy ranges.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: texcaliber on March 19, 2010, 06:39:22 PM
both during competition and situations when zen like calm is needed.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: m25operator on March 19, 2010, 07:09:48 PM
I use electronic muffs mostly, Hot in the summer!!, I do prefer plugs for shotgun, so you can cheek the gun tightly, without the muffs hitting the stock.

I really like electronic muffs for hunting, especially in the Cold, they keep your ears warm, you can hear better, due to the amplification.

In competition, I use the electronics, and as a range officer, if someone comes to the line with very hot loaded bottleneck, cartridges with a 7 port comp, I use both, and turn the muffs off.

If all you use are plugs, the inner ear still gets damage from the mastoid bone, they are definitely better than nothing, but not the best. I do like the molded plugs, but the foam expandable, work well, are cheap enough, you can put 10 pair in your shooting bag, and 10 more in your vehicle, so A your never without hearing protection, and if someone else needs protection, whether at the range or at work, your covered.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Timothy on March 19, 2010, 07:18:30 PM
One thing on foam type plugs that was brought up this week in our companies weekly safety meeting.  Most people don't use them correctly because they don't know how to insert them into the ear.  The proper technique is to roll them into a thin shape, reach over your head and grab the top of the opposite ear to open the canal.  Insert the plug and hold it there while it warms and expands into the ear canal, sometimes for a minute or so, more if it's cold.

You'll know when you've done it correctly because a good plug of NRR 33 will do a very good job.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: PegLeg45 on March 19, 2010, 09:05:45 PM
One thing on foam type plugs that was brought up this week in our companies weekly safety meeting.  Most people don't use them correctly because they don't know how to insert them into the ear.  The proper technique is to roll them into a thin shape, reach over your head and grab the top of the opposite ear to open the canal.  Insert the plug and hold it there while it warms and expands into the ear canal, sometimes for a minute or so, more if it's cold.

You'll know when you've done it correctly because a good plug of NRR 33 will do a very good job.

+1

I remember those safety meetings...  ;D
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: scott.ballard on March 19, 2010, 09:07:27 PM
Plugs?  Muffs? 

How about a suppressor ;D
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: PegLeg45 on March 19, 2010, 09:37:41 PM
Plugs?  Muffs? 

How about a suppressor ;D

Now you're on to something ........  :D
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: TAB on March 19, 2010, 10:05:34 PM
That really only wokrs for sub sonic rounds...
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: GUNS-R-US on March 19, 2010, 10:10:48 PM
Both especially indoors! Once you lose hearing you can't get it back!! :(
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: bigboredad on March 23, 2010, 09:54:18 AM
For the low sounds of a .38 special I just use molded plugs but for my hot loaded .45long colts I use both. It really makes a big difference for those loads
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: LittleRed on March 24, 2010, 08:20:00 PM
Both! And, now I feel much better about it since there are others that agree. I am a big believer in that ounce of prevention thing. All of my shooting glasses seem to "break the seal" a bit on muffs, so the earplugs help.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: billt on March 25, 2010, 09:35:38 AM
Plugs when hunting or shooting rifle.   Muffs otherwise.

Same here. Plugs for rifle or shotgun, muffs for handguns. Sometimes if I'm shooting large magnum handguns I'll use both, but I can't use muffs when shooting a shoulder stocked weapon because they always hit the stock.   Bill T.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: shooter32 on March 25, 2010, 09:41:50 AM
Take both and use as needed.  ;)
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: billt on March 25, 2010, 01:07:49 PM
I have never really understood the "db rating" system. If it's decibels it doesn't seem right. For example I have a pair of Howard Leight muffs that claim a 33 db rating. That's pretty good compared to most muffs. But then I read that a 747 at takeoff power is like 135 decibels, and front row at a Who concert is just slightly more than that. If that is the case 33 db's isn't crap??????   Bill T.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Timothy on March 25, 2010, 03:22:51 PM
I have never really understood the "db rating" system. If it's decibels it doesn't seem right. For example I have a pair of Howard Leight muffs that claim a 33 db rating. That's pretty good compared to most muffs. But then I read that a 747 at takeoff power is like 135 decibels, and front row at a Who concert is just slightly more than that. If that is the case 33 db's isn't crap??????   Bill T.

As a general rule of thumb, subtract 6-7 from the NRR rating to see the realized sound attenuation of your hearing protection, ie....33 minus 7 is 26.  If the sound registers 136 db, then the sound entering your ear canal would be approx 110 db.

OSHA allows up to 4 hours of 90 db noise for about 4 hours before they require hearing protection.

BTW, NRR of 33 is the highest rating available in the US whether it's passive or powered.  There is another number used occasionally called the SNR rating which is the "Signal to Noise Ratio" which uses another convoluted calculation.  The thing is, some frequencies in our spectrum are easier to attenuate than others.  These numbers are used as a general engineering criteria by OSHA and other agencies when determining safe occupational exposure limits to workers.

Even though the powered phones appear to work better, chances are, they may not attenuate sound better than a properly inserted foam ear plug.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Timothy on March 25, 2010, 06:44:49 PM
More Brain Salad...and remember, hearing loss is "cumulative" and cannot correct itself!

The decibel (abbreviated dB) is the unit used to measure the intensity of a sound. The decibel scale is a little odd because the human ear is incredibly sensitive. Your ears can hear everything from your fingertip brushing lightly over your skin to a loud jet engine. In terms of power, the sound of the jet engine is about 1,000,000,000,000 times more powerful than the smallest audible sound. That's a big difference!

On the decibel scale, the smallest audible sound (near total silence) is 0 dB. A sound 10 times more powerful is 10 dB. A sound 100 times more powerful than near total silence is 20 dB. A sound 1,000 times more powerful than near total silence is 30 dB. Here are some common sounds and their decibel ratings:

    * Near total silence - 0 dB
    * A whisper - 15 dB
    * Normal conversation - 60 dB
    * A lawnmower - 90 dB
    * A car horn - 110 dB
    * A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB
    * A gunshot or firecracker - 140 dB

You know from your own experience that distance affects the intensity of sound -- if you are far away, the power is greatly diminished. All of the ratings above are taken while standing near the sound.

Any sound above 85 dB can cause hearing loss, and the loss is related both to the power of the sound as well as the length of exposure. You know that you are listening to an 85-dB sound if you have to raise your voice to be heard by somebody else. Eight hours of 90-dB sound can cause damage to your ears; any exposure to 140-dB sound causes immediate damage (and causes actual pain).

I heard recently in one of our meetings that a "twenty something" carpenter who refuses to wear hearing protection on the job has the hearing loss (potentially) of a 60 year old office worker.  Save your eyes and your ears...
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: philw on March 26, 2010, 05:29:23 AM


    * A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB



ACDC was here the other week and they were 130db  :)
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: bfm1851 on March 28, 2010, 09:00:17 AM
I use both but have given the new electroninc muff some consideration lately. Wish I could try at the range before buying though. Hate to spend that much oney and find out it is no better then the plug muff combo I am using now.  ???
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: Rastus on March 28, 2010, 09:24:56 AM
I use electronic muffs and earplugs simultaneously.  I turn up the volume on the muffs so that I can hear what's going on....then I get the additional protection of muffs and earplugs when I shoot.

That really only wokrs for sub sonic rounds...

The dimminishment of blast still benefits greatly when running full power rounds. 
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: ske1eter on March 28, 2010, 06:41:28 PM
Which is preferable?  Earmuffs are cumbersome but the plugs are uncomfortable.  Which do you prefer?

Depends on the intended use. For hunting, I use plug-type like the Sonic II's which are now being made by someone else. Then there are also some plugs that are made by SureFire which a buddy of mine really likes. I've not gotten a pair to fit me right yet. When the weather is cooler or the range is really crowded and the sound is loud, for earmuff style, I currently use Pro-Ears but am looking to grab some Peltor Sporttac's due to easier/cheaper to obtain AAA batteries vs. the N-type that the Pro-Ears use.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: m25operator on March 28, 2010, 08:31:05 PM
That really only wokrs for sub sonic rounds...

Not true TAB, the above sonic rounds, make their noise, far forward of the muzzle, even a .50 Browning BMG round with a suppressor is quite pleasant at the firing point. On the ears that is.
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: ericire12 on March 28, 2010, 09:16:37 PM
I'm a muff man myself ;D
Title: Re: Plugs or Muffs?
Post by: ratcatcher55 on March 29, 2010, 11:28:21 AM
I use MSA Electronic muffs.  They work well
DISCLAMER I get them from work free.

Use muffs and plugs with new shooters especially indoors