The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tt11758 on March 24, 2010, 11:27:08 AM
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http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88971742.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88971742.html)
SEATTLE -- The mother of a Ballard High School student is fuming after the health center on campus helped facilitate her daughter's abortion during school hours.
The mother, whom KOMO News has chosen to identify only as "Jill," says the clinic kept the information "confidential."
When she signed a consent form, Jill figured it meant her 15 year old could go to the Ballard Teen Health Center located inside the high school for an earache, a sports physical, even birth control, but not for help terminating a pregnancy.
"She took a pregnancy test at school at the teen health center," she said. "Nowhere in this paperwork does it mention abortion or facilitating abortion."
Jill says her daughter, a pro-life advocate, was given a pass, put in a taxi and sent off to have an abortion during school hours all without her family knowing.
"We had no idea this was being facilitated on campus," said Jill. "They just told her that if she concealed it from her family, that it would be free of charge and no financial responsibility." (emphasis mine)
The Seattle School District says it doesn't run the health clinics at high schools. Swedish Medical Center runs the clinic at Ballard High and protects the students' privacy.
T.J. Cosgrove of the King County Health Department, which administers the school-based programs for the health department, says it's always best if parents are involved in their children's health care, but don't always have a say.
"At any age in the state of Washington, an individual can consent to a termination of pregnancy," he said.
But Jill says she not only didn't have a say in her daughter's abortion, but also didn't know about it.
"Makes me feel like my rights were completely stripped away."
What the HELL have we come to?!?
>:(
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Just what the hell makes you think you should have ANY say over what happens to your children? The GOVERNMENT knows much better what should be done!
You really are a right wing teabagger!
;)
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It's just like Christmas......
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What's next sex change operations during these kids lunch breaks? I knew public education was trying to "change" our students, but hell we are all about change lately...
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I have issues with this, but what if mom had said no? What if she'd said "you're going to have this kid whether you want to or not"? Who wins, a parent, or the girl who was old enough to make the call to get pregnant, and IMO, by definition, is old enough to make the call over what to do with it. Let me note this is a Libertarian, not a liberal, position. I don't think schools should be providing counseling on these matters, or the government paying for voluntary abortion.Still, it is the girl's choice, not mom's.
FQ13
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FQ - The daughter is only 15 years old, and the parents are responsible for her. It is their job and their Right to be a part of her life and to make these decissions.
For those of us that have strong feelings about abortion, on either side of the debate, this is a major issue. However, I guarantee that if this had happened with our daughter the school would have found themselves in court for denying us our parental Rights! It is cases like this that either allow laws to stay on the books or to be corrected.
I don't care which side of the fence you sit on when it comes to abortion, we should all be concerened about the State facilitating the deception of parents and limiting their influence in their children's lives.
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FQ - The daughter is only 15 years old, and the parents are responsible for her. It is their job and their Right to be a part of her life and to make these decissions.
For those of us that have strong feelings about abortion, on either side of the debate, this is a major issue. However, I guarantee that if this had happened with our daughter the school would have found themselves in court for denying us our parental Rights! It is cases like this that either allow laws to stay on the books or to be corrected.
I don't care which side of the fence you sit on when it comes to abortion, we should all be concerened about the State facilitating the deception of parents and limiting their influence in their children's lives.
+100
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I agree with you on the fact that the schools, and our tax dollars shouldn't be involved. I would raise this point though. Those who bring this question up say "Our daughter had an abortion without our consent. The government shouldn't intervene". Let's look at the flip side. Mom said she had to have it and the girl didn't want one? Where do we come down now? Me, I want my tax dollars out of it and a judicial bypass if the kid can say her parents would not permit her to act to keep or abort the child. Beyond that, it should be a private matter left in the hands of the woman it effects.
FQ13
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I agree with you on the fact that the schools, and our tax dollars shouldn't be involved. I would raise this point though. Those who bring this question up say "Our daughter had an abortion without our consent. The government shouldn't intervene". Let's look at the flip side. Mom said she had to have it and the girl didn't want one? Where do we come down now? Me, I want my tax dollars out of it and a judicial bypass if the kid can say her parents would not permit her to act to keep or abort the child. Beyond that, it should be a private matter left in the hands of the woman it effects.
FQ13
It does not just affect the 15-year old so-called woman. So just who the hell stands for the developing human fetus aka the unborn child?
Legally, the parents control her life until she is 18.
And since you are the well-known faux libertarian around these parts, it seems only fitting that you want your tax dollars out of it, but you are willing to let a gummint judge make the decision.
You, sir, are a hypocritical ass!
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It does not just affect the 15-year old so-called woman. So just who the hell stands for the developing human fetus aka the unborn child?
Legally, the parents control her life until she is 18.
And since you are the well-known faux libertarian around these parts, it seems only fitting that you want your tax dollars out of it, but you are willing to let a gummint judge make the decision.
You, sir, are a hypocritical ass!
So, your sister wants to make your niece get an abortion. You're happy with no legal recourse for the girl? Who's the hypocrite Path?
FQ13
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Last time I checked, Libertarians are for the most part pro family. So by that wouldn't this be a matter for the girl and her family to deal with on their own with no government intervention. So lets leave it at that no government involvement in the family when it comes to matters of family.
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It does not just affect the 15-year old so-called woman. So just who the hell stands for the developing human fetus aka the unborn child?
Legally, the parents control her life until she is 18.
And since you are the well-known faux libertarian around these parts, it seems only fitting that you want your tax dollars out of it, but you are willing to let a gummint judge make the decision.
You, sir, are a hypocritical ass!
I'm still trying to understand what the hell FQ is talking about?!?! ???
I agree 100% that the government has no right to interfere in any way in matters such as this. I think I know where FQ is going here with the fact that it's a tax burden if she has the child. medicaid/title 19. But that is not the issue here. This is government intrusion and circumvention of the family. Plain and simple. I wonder if this girl received any kind of counseling. Either before or after. Other than to tell her that her parents didn't have to know. And who fathered this child? Why is there no responsibility being placed on him?
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Last time I checked, Libertarians are for the most part pro family. So by that wouldn't this be a matter for the girl and her family to deal with on their own with no government intervention. So lets leave it at that no government involvement in the family when it comes to matters of family.
Problem is this. children have the same rights as the rest of us, they're just "held in trust" by those competetant to excersize them until the age of majority. Generally this is and should be the parents or other lawful (hopefully family) guardians. However, if those trustees abuse those rights (child labor, access to healthcare due to religious beliefs, sexual intercourse before the age of consent etc.) then the state in the form of a judge has to step in as the trustee of last resort. A pregnant teenager, being coerced to either keep or abort a pregnncy should have the option of courts saying no. This is a case she can make as (at least as I see it, your mileage may vary) the right to concieve and bear a child is a fundamental human right and cannot be abridged with justice. If you're pro-life, I respect that. Just understand that if you give a parent a right to forbid an abortion with no appeal, you also give them the right to mandate one one unless and until abortion is outlawed. I see no hypocrisy in this position.
FQ13
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I'm still trying to understand what the hell FQ is talking about?!?! ???
I agree 100% that the government has no right to interfere in any way in matters such as this. I think I know where FQ is going here with the fact that it's a tax burden if she has the child. medicaid/title 19. But that is not the issue here. This is government intrusion and circumvention of the family. Plain and simple. I wonder if this girl received any kind of counseling. Either before or after. Other than to tell her that her parents didn't have to know. And who fathered this child? Why is there no responsibility being placed on him?
I think one of the points FQ is trying to open to examination is that if the 15 year old is under the control of her parents, then they can force her to have an abortion as well as force her not to.
While I want to say that if the girl wants to keep her baby and try to make a go of it or put it up for adoption, she should have a way to do so.
However this means she should also have a way to have the abortion against her parents wishes also.
Involving the court might be one way. Or allowing the 15 year old to decide on her own is another.
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I think one of the points FQ is trying to open to examination is that if the 15 year old is under the control of her parents, then they can force her to have an abortion as well as force her not to.
While I want to say that if the girl wants to keep her baby and try to make a go of it or put it up for adoption, she should have a way to do so.
However this means she should also have a way to have the abortion against her parents wishes also.
Involving the court might be one way. Or allowing the 15 year old to decide on her own is another.
Ding! Ding! We have a winner.
Thanks Solus for cleaing that up.
FQ13
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BUT for the parents to have ZERO input is wrong!
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My point is that until she is 18 she is the responsibility of her parents. Just like her tonsils, appendix, warts, strep throat, etc., her parents have the responsibility to say yes or no to anything legal controling her life. If there is a concern with threat to life or legalities the courts and ommbudsmen are in place in all parts of this nation, and they have been overseeing things better, in my oppinion, that what this school nurse did.
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My point is that until she is 18 she is the responsibility of her parents. Just like her tonsils, appendix, warts, strep throat, etc., her parents have the responsibility to say yes or no to anything legal controling her life. If there is a concern with threat to life or legalities the courts and ommbudsmen are in place in all parts of this nation, and they have been overseeing things better, in my oppinion, that what this school nurse did.
+1!
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You know, last time I checked it was still THE LAW to have parental consent before performing ANY non emergency medical procedure on a minor. Call me crazy, but what if there were complications, and the girl was seriously injured? How do you as the government explain THAT to the parents?
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My point is that until she is 18 she is the responsibility of her parents. Just like her tonsils, appendix, warts, strep throat, etc., her parents have the responsibility to say yes or no to anything legal controlling her life. If there is a concern with threat to life or legalities the courts and ombudsmen are in place in all parts of this nation, and they have been overseeing things better, in my opinion, that what this school nurse did.
+10000
Thank God the doc performing the procedure didn't kill the girl! How fast would the school district try and distance themselves?
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I have issues with this, but what if mom had said no? What if she'd said "you're going to have this kid whether you want to or not"? Who wins, a parent, or the girl who was old enough to make the call to get pregnant, and IMO, by definition, is old enough to make the call over what to do with it. Let me note this is a Libertarian, not a liberal, position. I don't think schools should be providing counseling on these matters, or the government paying for voluntary abortion.Still, it is the girl's choice, not mom's.
FQ13
WRONG!!! As long as mom is legally and financially responsible for the child, she does have a say. Kids can't get pierced or tattooed before their 18th birthday without a parent's consent, but they can get an abortion? What kind of bullshit is that?!?
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WRONG!!! As long as mom is legally and financially responsible for the child, she does have a say. Kids can't get pierced or tattooed before their 18th birthday without a parent's consent, but they can get an abortion? What kind of bullshit is that?!?
Not nearly as much as telling her she's going to carry a child to term that she doesn't want, or alternatively making her murder her child. She's your kid, not your property TT.
FQ13
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Can I say something here since I am a girl? LOL
I think that parents should have the right to a say..but I don't think a parent should have 100% control when it comes to a final decision on whether that girl keeps her baby.. gives it up for adoption or chooses to abort..
After all... who is going to raise it to adulthood?
The girl? or her parents...
If its the girl.. she has the end deciding factor..
If its the parents.. then I'd say they have a bigger push in the decision..
But 100% do I think that the government and schools should keep their damned noses out of it! Absolutely!!
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I'll jump in and say, this is a personal family matter, however, if a young girl AND BOY, have no control enough to get to the local gas station to at least buy some Trojan's, than tragically these things continue to occur. Let alone STD's.
After all... who is going to raise it to adulthood?
The girl? or her parents...
Tragically, it's usually the girl's parents. They end up supporting the underage parent, and the newborn. Than you have Jerry Springer episode dysfunction from an irresponsible young man thinking with his little head, and not having the resources or maturity to man up to his responsibilities....
"Baby Daddy" is a derogatory term in today's kids. Personal note, my 15 year old son knows, but you always have to wonder, in the heat of teenage minds,......etc,.....
I do agree the gov't needs to keep out of it. Tough situation for all involved.
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May I ask why this is being discussed on a gun forum? It seems this is something best discussed on a political or religious forum?
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May I ask why this is being discussed on a gun forum? It seems this is something best discussed on a political or religious forum?
Hello Pecos Bill, welcome to DRTV, this is the Politics and RKBA, portion pf DRTV. In today's world, we tend to kick all topics of Politics, Cultural Shifts, and Legislation around. It is not specific to guns only, but in a broader picture encompasses how political policies are encroaching into every aspect of our lives. Even those that do not involve guns, but will if left to a runaway legislation.
We cover a lot of ground, not all specific to firearms, yet indirectly will if we don't keep our attention.
Take Care,
tw
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It is being discussed on the Political portion of the forum. We discuss all political issues that deal with Rights, because if they can mess with this they can mess with others - Including our Second Amendment Rights.
We also don't focus well, so we rant about anything that comes along ;)
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It is being discussed on the Political portion of the forum. We discuss all political issues that deal with Rights, because if they can mess with this they can mess with others - Including our Second Amendment Rights.
We also don't focus well, so we rant about anything that comes along ;)
Beat me to it.....
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May I ask why this is being discussed on a gun forum? It seems this is something best discussed on a political or religious forum?
Because its what we do here. DRTV? Make that thread drift TV. ;D Look, we yell, bitch, and fight over non-sense, but its still a family. More the Sopranos than the Bradys, but still a famiiy. The only two requirements here are that you back the 2A and have a sense of humor, especially about yourself. You may get beat on, but no one will hold your ideas against you when you have a question about what pistol to buy. Welcome aboard Pecos.
FQ13
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Well said you guys... and very true... :)
and since everyone thinks I am a wind bag ..((( :P ))) I'll keep it short..
I will just say to you..
Glad you are interested in being part of "the family"...
and you will discuss a lot of different things in this forum.. Part of the comfort of the place.. Kinda like being in a living room with a whole bunch of your buddies.. can talk..say and do anything and just be yourself.. fully stocked fridge.. poker and pool table and a shooting range in the next room.. ( Oh hell~!! I just described the corner).. ;D
You haven't been here long enough yet to experience that.. but trust me .. stick around and your ass will be there with a special invitation from 'yours truly".. LOL LOL
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Well said you guys... and very true... :)
and since everyone thinks I am a wind bag ..((( :P ))) I'll keep it short..
I will just say to you..
Glad you are interested in being part of "the family"...
and you will discuss a lot of different things in this forum.. Part of the comfort of the place.. Kinda like being in a living room with a whole bunch of your buddies.. can talk..say and do anything and just be yourself.. fully stocked fridge.. poker and pool table and a shooting range in the next room.. ( Oh hell~!! I just described the corner).. ;D
You haven't been here long enough yet to experience that.. but trust me .. stick around and your ass will be there with a special invitation from 'yours truly".. LOL LOL
Most of us have been "invited" there so many times we have just changed our addresses. ;D
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Most of us have been "invited" there so many times we have just changed our addresses. ;D
You beat me to it!! ;D
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I'll have you know that I have NOT changed my address!!!
I use a forwarding service. ;) ;D
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I'll have you know that I have NOT changed my address!!!
I use a forwarding service. ;) ;D
Ever optimistic that you'll someday be getting out of the corner, huh? ;D
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As we say up here in New York...All you need is a dollar and a dream...
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Ever optimistic that you'll someday be getting out of the corner, huh? ;D
Ya never know.....it could happen! ;)