The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: tstand on March 28, 2010, 07:56:20 PM
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Hello, discovered the Best Defense show and am enjoying it.
I've become interested in personal or self defense and wondered a few things. Sorry these are from a newbie:
1. Is there self-defense training in Dayton, OH that is recommended? I'm considering a martial art such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, or Judo. But then I read about Close Quarters Combat or Krav Maga and wonder if one of these is a better route. I am not aware of any CQC or similar training availabe in this area to civilians. A local Wing Chun school claims to teach Krav Maga but I don't know how legitimate it is. Or is there another discipline I should consider?
2. Are there books or videos that are good for training how to avoid bad situations before you get yourself into one, and how to escape harm if you get into a bad place (such as, verbal tactics).
Thanks!
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It may help to mention that I am unwilling to carry a firearm.
Thanks again
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The Sig Sauer Academy has an excellent Krav Maga instructor and program.
I know he travels and may come to your area. Otherwise you may need to travel to Epping, NH or one of the other remote locations.
Sorry, I do not know of any in your area, but someone on the forum will for sure.
Regarding the discipline, I studied Judo and Aikido growing up. Those turned out to be incomparable to the H2H training I received while in the Navy. That was superseded by the KM training I took up later. Each one built off the other and I feel I benefitted from them all.
I would suggest you start with KM and grow from there.
Good Luck,
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Welcome to DRTV.
Does your unwillingness to carry a firearm extend to carrying a knife, or other instrument for self defense? Is it location, or something else?
There are several options besides a firearm. PD training is a great outlet. I'm sure some will offer valid points.
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The Sig Sauer Academy has an excellent Krav Maga instructor and program.
I know he travels and may come to your area. Otherwise you may need to travel to Epping, NH or one of the other remote locations.
Sorry, I do not know of any in your area, but someone on the forum will for sure.
Regarding the discipline, I studied Judo and Aikido growing up. Those turned out to be incomparable to the H2H training I received while in the Navy. That was superseded by the KM training I took up later. Each one built off the other and I feel I benefitted from them all.
I would suggest you start with KM and grow from there.
Good Luck,
I visited the sig sauer website and see the classes you mentioned. They are held in NH but maybe I'll write and see if they ever come to Ohio.
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Welcome to DRTV.
Does your unwillingness to carry a firearm extend to carrying a knife, or other instrument for self defense? Is it location, or something else?
There are several options besides a firearm. PD training is a great outlet. I'm sure some will offer valid points.
I would be uncomfortable carrying a gun or knife, but might be willing to carry something else, as long as it is legal. You say "PD training is a great outlet." Is that a forum on this website? I am unsure what you meant.
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You can try tazers and pepper spray also. The trend I have seen as of late is multiple attackers. So it is best not to get hung up on getting into ground fights. One has you down and the other one is going to use your head as a soccer ball. Situational awareness is one of your best defense. Tazer will replace your tazer if you have a police report where it was used and you fled the area.
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Tstand,
Glad to hear that you enjoy TBD and that you are interested in training.
I would encourage you to look towards a more efficient and less "traditional" unarmed program. Personal Defense Readiness is a great program, based on intuitive concepts and taught in a variety of short seminar versions. I'm sure you can find an instructor in your region.
As others have mentioned, there are plenty of tools that you can carry other than firearms or knives that can increase your ability to defend yourself, but awareness & avoidance are going to serve you much better than any tool.
-RJP
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I think Rob, unsurprisingly has it right, as he does do this for a living. I guess I would ask you to think (not necessarily out loud on the board, but just think) about why you are reluctant to carry a weapon. Is it for reasons of conscience, temperment, legality, pragmatism etc.? Any of the above are valid, and if you aren't comfortable carrying, by all means don't. BUT, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time among Quakers and understands the moral concerns about lethal force (though I don't share them), I would say that you should ask yourself this. How far are you willing to go with the Krav Maga to defend your life? Is it any less lethal than a gun, and if not, maybe (while staying within speaking distance of your moral comfort zone) might not a gun be more effecient and safer for you? If its not I respect that, and would yield to an unarmed style and good situational awareness. Either way, welcome aboard.
FQ13
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A lot of good advice here......
I'd also recommend looking into a martial arts style that utilizes canes or other stick fighting (like some of the Filippino MA's). A cane or walking stick appears pretty innocuous but gives you a lot of room in the force continum.
FQ definitely has a point.....just how far are you willing to go in a SD situation?
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Try tdiohio.com I am not sure where West Union, Ohio is to you but they have a very good rep and I know some of their instructors past and present.
FWIW
Richard
PS: I am in no way connected to or paid by TDI Ohio
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I found Tony Blauer Personal Defense Readiness classes. Are these the ones Rob Pincus is referring to?
It is hard for me to imagine carrying a gun, for a variety of reasons (legal, ethical, concern for safety). But I do have pepperspray, a couple of different sizes including key chain fitting. Gee, I forgot I had it!
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I would be uncomfortable carrying a gun or knife, but might be willing to carry something else, as long as it is legal. You say "PD training is a great outlet." Is that a forum on this website? I am unsure what you meant.
I apologize for the abbreviated letters. "PD" is Personal Defense. All the advice is an asset to provide you an avenue to defending yourself. Whether armed or not. There are options.
Rob Pincus mentioned carrying a "cane" in Europe, Michael Bane referred to dive shop knives. Pepper spray, even car keys, and a self defense discipline, can account for alot.
Kubotans can even be one option with training.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubotan
I am too old to "scrap" hand to hand, especially if outnumbered. The world is not that nice anymore. However, having a defensive plan is always an advantage whether a firearm is used or not.
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My 2cents, training yourself to pay attention, is the BEST thing you can do for SD.
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My 2cents, training yourself to pay attention, is the BEST thing you can do for SD.
Agreed. It needs to be the very first and most important objective.
But once it is accomplished, it is just the start.
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I found Tony Blauer Personal Defense Readiness classes. Are these the ones Rob Pincus is referring to?
Yes.
As for the TDI recommendation, I know several people who have taken (and liked) their courses and had lunch with their lead guy, John Benner, at SHOT. Seems like a good dude.
-RJP
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Tstand,
Glad to hear that you enjoy TBD and that you are interested in training.
I would encourage you to look towards a more efficient and less "traditional" unarmed program. Personal Defense Readiness is a great program, based on intuitive concepts and taught in a variety of short seminar versions. I'm sure you can find an instructor in your region.
As others have mentioned, there are plenty of tools that you can carry other than firearms or knives that can increase your ability to defend yourself, but awareness & avoidance are going to serve you much better than any tool.
-RJP
I'll go at Rob's earlier post from a different angle.
There is no real difference between armed and unarmed Self defense, in either case if you foul up you can wind up dead or severely injured, if you either shoot or punch your way out of the situation you can still face, crippling injuries or, crippling legal fees, (if not both ). The only upside is that you still have a pulse.
If you are AWARE of whats going on around you, ( instead of texting, Talking on the phone, )You have the opportunity to leave , cross the street.
The best way to succeed completely in a violent civilian encounter is to not be where they are happening.
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There is no real difference between armed and unarmed Self defense,
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Great Point, Tom.
I did a consultation call with a new client a couple of days ago and had to really drive the point home that Personal/Family Protection is not about gear, it is about mindset, preparation and compromises when it comes to avoiding danger. Gear might help... might it can't be the focus of your approach.
-RJP
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If you are AWARE of whats going on around you. You have the opportunity to leave , cross the street. The best way to succeed completely in a violent civilian encounter is to not be where they are happening.
I'll add the following;
Profiling works and in spite of the "lefts" disdain with it, it's not illegal!
Avoidance/awareness of potential threats is something you cannot take lightly.
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I know it's a cliche, but it does bear repeating over and over...your brain is the weapon; the other stuff are just tools. Awareness and avoidance are the first and most important "building blocks" for personal protection. Part of awareness is building your lifestyle around making sure you and your family are safe. It's not really that hard to do...a point I've been making for years is that if you're not actively interacting with the criminal element — drugs and prostitution come to mind — your chances for being involved in a violent encounter are actually pretty small. For example I will readily agree that marijuana should be legalized and the the government's war on drugs has been a spectacular failure. However, as long as it's illegal, I want no part of it, nor will I be around people who flaunt that stupid law. Maybe makes me boring (or perhaps more boring), but it's part of that awareness/avoidance equation.
As some of the other posters have mentioned, before you even consider how you plan to defend yourself, you must answer Question 1, which is simply how far are you willing to go in that defense. This can be an agonizing and in many cases a life-changing exercise...but if you don't honestly address Question 1, your efforts at self-defense will fail, and at the worst possible time.
Welcome to the Forums, and don't hesitate to ask questions!
Michael B
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As some of the other posters have mentioned, before you even consider how you plan to defend yourself, you must answer Question 1, which is simply how far are you willing to go in that defense. This can be an agonizing and in many cases a life-changing exercise...but if you don't honestly address Question 1, your efforts at self-defense will fail, and at the worst possible time.
Michael B
Golden words right there.
And, that is it in a nutshell. The first, and greatest decision (IMHO) is whether you are prepared to take a situation to the ultimate conclusion, which is, taking a human life. Everything else expands from there. And, many people confuse 'wanting to' and 'being prepared to' do what is necessary, up to, and including, taking a life or lives. It also has to be a steadfast and unwavering decision. One can not waffle.
I personally don't 'want' to, and hope I never have to......but I am prepared to. Be it with gun, knife, cane, bat, fork, or used chopstick...whatever it takes to stop the threat.
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I would like to just take a moment to point out that we are up to 3 pages now and there has not been 1 single internet commando/mall ninja post like you would see on "those other gun forums". You know..... with some jack ass mouthing off and giving you crap about you not being willing to carry a firearm.
Way to go DRTV! Big thumbs up to ALL the forum members here!
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I would like to just take a moment to point out that we are up to 3 pages now and there has not been 1 single internet commando/mall ninja post like you would see on "those other gun forums". You know..... with some jack ass mouthing off and giving you crap about you not being willing to carry a firearm.
Way to go DRTV! Big thumbs up to ALL the forum members here!
We're not stupid. We know what M'ette would do to us if we treated a guest that way
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More to the point we're just not stupid. Hell, Eric and I may act that way sometimes, but he is 100% correct in noting that the members here understand that SD is both serious business and a personal decision. We aren't about to give somebody grief about their calls, just try to help them out. I will actually nominate Eric for comment of the day.
FQ13
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This is exciting getting advice from so many people, including stars of the Best Defense!
Awareness and Avoidance are the primary recommendations by Rory Miller, too, in a book I'm reading by him called Meditations on Violence. I didn't really understand the concepts until reading the book. I understand the Best Defense show also discusses so I'll watch for it.
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I think Jeff Brown from the Dog Brothers group is in Dayton and there is a Krav School in Dayton also. You are not far from one of of Mr. Janich's groups in Columbus. They have some Saturday training once a month that would be worth the trip.