The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: SwoopSJ on April 01, 2010, 04:40:52 AM
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I have read several postings related to self defense styles on this forum and gather that Krav Maga is the superior style for defensive situations. However, the closest training facility is about an hour and half away from me, while the closest Akido instructor is literally 5 minutes away. I'm not really interested in becoming a "human weapon", I would just like to be better trained for the extremely rare occasion in which I'm unable to carry my sidearm or, God forbid, I lose my weapon or it's rendered inoperable. I'm a fairly large mammal, which, in my experience, acts as a deterrent against most unarmed attacks by individuals, unless, of course, the individual is a bigger bear. ;D The most likely, realistic, threat to the safety of myself and those around me would then be armed (or intoxicated) individuals or groups. Considering my needs, would it really be worth the 3 hours round trip to study Krav Maga, or would the local Akido instruction suite my requirement adequately?
Swoop
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How far is your local boxing gym? If you are a "large mammal" a good right hook and a quick combo follow up might be what the doctor ordered. Just a thought.
FQ13 who thinks people tend to fetishize the Easter Arts, and yes if you master them they give you a bigger tool box, but the ability to deliver several powerful rapid blows, which boxing will teach you, combined with a little street fighting training is not to be sneezed at. just my .02.
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Just like a Ruger LCP in the pocket is better than a Kimber 45 at home, any empty hand technique is better than none. As long as they have a realistic self-defence program, you will learn and start to understand what works and what does not. I like a dojo that trains not only for the "here it comes" self-defence, but also for that explosive "where the hell did that come from" attack.
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How far is your local boxing gym? If you are a "large mammal" a good right hook and a quick combo follow up might be what the doctor ordered. Just a thought.
FQ13 who thinks people tend to fetishize the Easter Arts, and yes if you master them they give you a bigger tool box, but the ability to deliver several powerful rapid blows, which boxing will teach you, combined with a little street fighting training is not to be sneezed at. just my .02.
That would include Easter egg coloring, Easter basket displays, and Easter lily arrangements, right? Did I miss anything?
BTTT - Aikido is a sport based on a martial art, as is boxing, Queensberry rules and all that. Krav maga is a down and dirty fighting style in which you will get hurt but will teach to hurt your opponent more. Do the math.
OTOH, having spent some time in a dojo, I have found aikido valuable in a lot of respects, not the least of which is redirecting attacks and the ability to put someone down in pain - and keep them there. As a martial art, though, I think aikido (as conceived, not the Steven Seagal stuff which is more of a blend) fails in that it is intended to be "gentle". O'Sensei (the founder) once fought a Japanese Naval officer armed with a sword for 8 hours - and never laid a hand on the guy. The officer gave up in complete exhaustion.
In a life or death fight, I would suggest anything that allows you to do what you have to do to survive, like krav maga.
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Just like a Ruger LCP in the pocket is better than a Kimber 45 at home, any empty hand technique is better than none. As long as they have a realistic self-defence program, you will learn and start to understand what works and what does not. I like a dojo that trains not only for the "here it comes" self-defence, but also for that explosive "where the hell did that come from" attack.
Let me add, from my very, very limited martial arts training (a few years of Karate as a kid and a few more in college) was this, how to take a punch or kick and fight through the pain and shock. I don't care what style it is, getting punched in the snout or flipped on your butt and coming up swinging is probably lesson one. I could be wrong here, but that was what I took away more than anything else. Probably just worth .01, but its what I've got.
FQ13
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I strongly recommend that you check out everything that's available in your area, talk to the instructors and students, explain your focus on self-defense, and then choose something you find appropriate for your needs.
In general, Krav Maga is a striking art while aikido emphasizes joint locks and throws. However, really good, combative aikido (there are many different flavors) includes atemi (striking) and comes closer to its parent art, aiki-jitsu. Really bad Krav Maga (there are many flavors ofit as well) is more like kick boxing and, in some cases, teaches techniques that are inadequate and in appropriate for serious attacks (i.e. attacker thrusts with a knife--you block and punch him in the face).
If you can't find any good instruction in yyour area, consider starting a study/training group and work with some good videos on combatives, like Kelly McCann's "Jim Grover's Combatives Series" http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=15&sub_catid=4&page=JIM GROVER (http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=15&sub_catid=4&page=JIM GROVER) or, if you like what you've seen of the unarmed tactics I've shown on The Best Defense, my combatives DVDs http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=81&sub_catid=4&page=PRACTICAL UNARMED COMBATIVES VOLUME 1 (http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=81&sub_catid=4&page=PRACTICAL UNARMED COMBATIVES VOLUME 1). Good information, a training partner, and a pair of Thai pads is all you really need to get started.
Stay safe,
Mike
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Thanks for the input, guys. I do have access to boxing facilities in my area, but they are mostly utilized by either very young or serious boxers and I fall into neither group. There were, at one time, several options for martial arts training in my area. Sadly, those choices have dwindled to the already mentioned Akido and a small selection of Tae Kwon Do, Karate, and Kung Fu. I'm really not very familiar with the training offered by the Akido dojo, but I have heard good things about it (frequented by some of the local LEOs). The Krav Maga facility is fully licensed and certified by Krav Maga Worldwide and the Krav Maga Association of America, Inc., if that really means anything. In response to Mr. Janich's suggestion of using videos, I would love to utilize his techniques and plan on doing just that after I have a base to build upon. I feel, at this point, I would benefit more from having an instructor present, though, even if the instruction isn't equal to his. Thank you all, once again, and any further advice would be greatly appreciated.
Swoop
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FQ13 who thinks people tend to fetishize the Easter Arts......
Is that like a sexy Easter Bunny in handcuffs or something?..... :-\
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Is that like a sexy Easter Bunny in handcuffs or something?..... :-\
Angelina Jolie in a fifties style playboy bunny outfit with a riding crop maybe. Other wise, not so much. ;D
FQ13
PS Rob, this isn't thread drift, the riding crop would be tactical, very, very tactical. ;D ;D ;D
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99% of the akido taught in the US is bullshido. Thats not to say it does not have good things in it, as it does( the wrist locks for example, which most LEOs do use). If your looking for a real sd class, I'd look else where.
I've been working next to a local akido place, I've watched several of the class, coming from some one that has wrestling/ judo background. I really doubt if they would be able to defend against a 6 year old girl with a wet noodle using akido. The ukes are litterly jumping when they are throw and its not for them to prevent injury... ::)
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Alot of krag magav, Is eye gouges, Now that's cool. But I allways felt that in a real fight that would come natural. And theres no real way to train since just twice would leave the instructer with no eyes. Now true akido, Judo , the lethal strikes of snake kung fu, Combat sambo and Systema. Now sunglasses and eye glaasses face shields all block eye gouges. So a combat system that works on armoured oponents. With multiple moves is preffered. Now that's not to say you shouldn't learn krag magav. Just that it shouldn't be your only pick.
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Combat sambo would be a very good choice, but those clubs are very hard to find.
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Well, iI don't know where he lives. And said he sounded like he would travel a considerabel distance. For what we thought was the best. "since he didn't know I named a few good ones that might be close".
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How far is your local boxing gym? If you are a "large mammal" a good right hook and a quick combo follow up might be what the doctor ordered. Just a thought.
I know this is an older thread, but I just joined the forum and it addresses the question I have.
I have no background in martial arts, and I've incorporated heavy bag and double end bag into my workout routine.
I"m interested in boxing as a means to fitness. There is a gym locally that offers a 4 week course on boxing basics.
I was thinking I'd enroll just to get an assesment of the mechanics of my punches, obviously to be effective and also so as not to injure myself.
I appreciate the spiritual side of learning, training, applying technique.
I would like to take some sort of self defense course, I've been wondering about Krav Maga or Akido.
Basically I want to be able to save my ass in an emergency.
Assuming I develop a decent application of boxing skills, what do you suggest as another discipline ?
I mean, I"d like to acquire defense skills quickly, but I'd also like to grow. Would starting out
in Krav Maga be a hinderance to other training - and is there something more appropriate for me than
either of these ?
( I know answers will be opinions, and there is no 'right' method, so please, feel free to tell my your biased opinions)
Thanks
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Akido has worked for a lot longer. Use their force, Luke.
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Akido has worked for a lot longer. Use their force, Luke.
You know Ive always liked systema if you have any questions fill free to ask. I'll come up with more info later.
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Uh, Akido,...Vs. Maga?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7aauJuQHY&feature=related
And he has a vast collection of 1911's that he can marksman hit with. ;)
Yes Krav Maga, is more street tactics, and be attuned to more reality based unorthodox attacks. Both are formidable, and for any, with someone with training, be a bad freakin' day.
Akido, just throws/flips you and breaks appendages along the way. Krav Maga, disarms, disables, and debilitates.
Study, and I agree,,,,use the force...(carrying a M+P .40) can also help.... 8)
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Uh, Akido,...Vs. Maga?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7aauJuQHY&feature=related
And he has a vast collection of 1911's that he can marksman hit with. ;)
Yes Krav Maga, is more street tactics, and be attuned to more reality based unorthodox attacks. Both are formidable, and for any, with someone with training, be a bad freakin' day.
Akido, just throws/flips you and breaks appendages along the way. Krav Maga, disarms, disables, and debilitates.
Study, and I agree,,,,use the force...(carrying a M+P .40) can also help.... 8)
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/Krav.html#krav-maga
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What you train is often less important how you train it. Any art, no matter how great people think it is, trained like garbage, isn't going to do you much good. I've seen lots of success with the internet-maligned Aikido, of course I think our school doea a great job of training it.
Here's what I look for:
1. A technical foundation that underpins and supports technical development. What does that mean? I have afundamental set of principles that apply across sitations and applications.
2. Training to deal with failed technique. If I'm attacked and attempt a technique, and that technique fails, I need to have a response to that failure, and that failure and that failure.
3. Randomized and resistive training. This usually goes by the name randori or sparring. Some people seem to think this requires full-bore max-power fight simulation. There are gradations and variations, but the key is having some structure where I can attempt my techniques without foreknowlede of the threat and against someone who's trying to stop my attempts.
I also look for other things, like safety, and a structured ciriculm of development. For the sole discussion of "effectiveness" however, those three things are what I evaluate.
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I've never done Aikido, but I've done Kenpo, and also Krav. Krav is very direct. It works the outside line (no forearm blocks, but sweeps, and always working to the outside and flanking opponent). I suppose you could say that because of the sweeps and the defensive physics, it resembles Aikido and is to that degree "soft." Krav trains a lot of footwork, like boxiing, but it uses open palm strikes (not palm heel, but a slap) and hammer fist. Elbows in Krav are devastating. There is some very subtle grappling, particularly in knife defense moves, and lots of ways to get out of headlocks, chokes, arm grabs, etc. There are a lot of effective anti rape strategies for women.
It's not tradition heavy, like Aikido, and students train in sneakers. The kicks are mostly like muay thai. I like it. Unfortunately, I've had to stop training for a while because of an ankle injury. I think people learn more faster in Krav than any other form.
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Or you could go the third way and take up manga-do:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c2d_1269279261 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c2d_1269279261)
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Some thoughts on Aikido in street defense. Most of the intitial defense strategies in Aikido involve gross motor function. In a bad situation, fine motor control is one of the first things to go if you havent repeated the movement thousands of times. If you dont plan to practice often, Aikido can be a good way to enhance your natural "flinch" responses. Having said all that, Krav Maga is an excellent fighting system for any situation provided it is taught by someone who really knows what theyre doing.