The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: gunman42782 on January 16, 2008, 07:19:58 AM
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With the current crop of Republicans being less than ideal, and Fred not going nowhere, what are you guys thoughts on the Libertarians? I have no idea who they are even running this year, but the Libertarians are 100 percent pro-gun! I think if we could start some sort of movement towards getting the nations gun owners to back the Libertarian Party it would send a message that those idiots in Washington could not ignore. I am tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. I am tired of these idiots getting in office and then doing what they want instead of what we want. I don't agree with everything the Libertarians stand for, but I find myself agreeing more than I disagree. What say you?
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I think you also have to be realistic...a vote for a Libertarian candidate, even though it's a statement, is a wasted vote. We need to go with the most 2A friendly choice we have.
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Do you go to a church because you believe in what they preach , or because they have the largest bingo prizes, the libertarian candidate is Ron Paul, how he got listed as a Republican I don't know. The point is of course they don't have a chance to win if people say " I agree with their position but 3rd parties never win" Of course not, people agree with them then vote for some A--hole from the major parties.
Over in the Amicus breif thread John suggested our own party, lets do it.
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Over in the Amicus breif thread John suggested our own party, lets do it.
THAT I agree with. The candidate would need be appealing on many levels, but with the one (2A) core value.
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Being a card carrying member of the OTHER Proud & Few (a libertarian not a USMC) here is my take on the pres race (and all others fwiw). I honestlly believe my party's policies could & would be the best thing to happen for & to the USA.I'll be the first to acknowledge that we rarely win elections but we & like-minded voters often decide elections.IMO,an anti-2A GOP president is more dangerous than an anti-2A democrat president b/c so many fence-sitters in the House & Senate will vote partyline on 2A issues esp AWB ,SNS,EBR etc.I will not vote for any of the Democrat candidates nor will I vote for Mitt,Rudy or John Mac & while I'd love to vote for Fred it probably will not be an option.I then will choose to punish the GOP & hope the Dems screw up so badly that they'll lose Congress in 2 years.I'll also be doing some serious e-mail & talk-time with my Senator (he is a GOP & will being facing a real test for the first time in a long time) about the George W backstab & his reaction to it.So as to give non-libs a little insight to our views & what is IMO the best assessment of the GOP & Dems current policy I'll share this quote from one of our past pres candidates "The Democrats & Republicans are the same,they are both driving the USA to hell.The only difference is the Democrats are on a fast train & the Republicans are on a slow boat."
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Quit bi#chin and DO SOMETHING
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I like most of Doctor Paul's views, but I don't dig his stance on illegalizing abortion (how 'bout we beat it into the kids' brains that abortion is NOT a form of birth control?) and his idea of turning America into an isolationist paradise. Granted, there's no more rest of the free world to care about - see how cancer ridden the United Kingdom has become - but taking all of our toys and going home is too bratty a position for such a powerful nation.
As for going Tombogan's analogy of "do you go to Church because of belief or because of the biggest bingo jackpot" - that's an incomplete and inaccurate analogy.
The better analogy is which Church do you go to worship at? The one where you have to wear SCUBA gear to even breathe in because the other parties have been whizzing on it so long it's at the bottom of a yellow lake, or do you go to a friendlier non-denominational Church where you'll be allowed to fully espouse your beliefs and hope to influence others by the example of your faith?
Frankly, there's really not much chance of a palpable candidate making it to the end vote anyway. The last time I had a clear choice (2000), the pro-gun candidate turned into a back-stabbing, lying filthy fascist traitor - not that my state (Illinois) went for him.
edited to spell Tom's name right - sorry, Tom.
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It's OK I don't always get it rite either :D What I'll go ahead and argue is this. With the name Doug you must be a guy We don't get pregnant , nor do we have the last word when our significant other does, so it's really just academic to us. If he tries to ban abortion he will be far to busy to stab US in the back or turn us into an isolationist state. That gives us time, and bargaining power to regain lost ground.
On the isolationist subject, I was an active duty Marine when jimmy the Jerk let Iran humiliate us for 444days, The unit that got blown up in Beruit was one I had previously served with. I've been reading and studying terrorism since the 70's and I have been waiting a LONG time to see muslim fanatic bodies put in the streets by US troops, Preferably my Marine brothers. HOWEVER, as soon as Bush started talking about invading Iraq I said it was dumb, They would withdraw into the cities and commence insurgent warfare just like the Palistinians were then doing in Gaza. I said at the time, If they want to get rid of Hussien the best way would have been a sniper team, The absolute worst case , you lose a dozen guys and some M-82's big deal Ronnie can make more. Instead of listening to me, Bush and Rumsfeld launched a full scale invasion and then by disbanding the Iraqi army and Police in a publicity stunt they lost control of the whole country, People died not because Bush lied, he didn't, even the hillybeast said Saddam had to go, There is video around of her saying that during hearings WHILE Bill was Pres. They died because Rummy tried to fight WWII on the cheap, that pompus ass over ruled our military leadership on several occasions.
Now it appears the BEGINNING OF THE END is in sight , The Iraqi PEOPLE if not the govt. is getting a handle on things, places like Ramadi and Falluja are downright PEACEFULThe Marines have been talking for 5 or 6 months about shifting troops to Afghanistan. If the Iraqi's can hold things together for another couple years we can rightly claim that our job is done there. Of course within 6 months the Sunnis ,Shites and Kurds will be at each others throats but they have been for 4000 years so who really cares.
As far as the rest of the world goes, We should kick out the UN, The only war they didn't lose was Korea and god knows they tried hard enough, otherwise they have been at best a waste and at worst a menace, ( example, When the Marines left Somalia the People loved the US, we had done what we said, organized and policed the releif mission and STAYED OUT OF INTER SOMALI AFFAIRS The fact that Aidid's son was a serving Corpral of Marines helped). They were replaced by American Army troops under command of a UN headed by a man who had a pesonal beef with Aidid they became involved in local affairs and the result was Blackhawk Down. Great book and movie but tottaly useless loss of life and prestige.
We should leave Asia to the Asians and Europe to the Europeans, If Germany gets uppity again (They're about 10 years over due) We threaten to make them KEEP france this time. The proper instrument of world power nowadays is the corparation, Noone can face us on the battlefeild,so they won't, most of the future conflicts the US gets into will be little groups of like minded fanatics nipping at us whenever and where ever they can, just like Al-qeada, because that method is the one we are least adept at combating. Since the french and indian wars, before there WAS a US we have had to relearn that method of warfare every time we run into it. So lets take a lesson from Japan, Their business leaders read Sun Tzu and the book of Five rings NOT for the leadership lessons but becuase they see business as war on a differant front, 2 Wal-marts and a Home Depot can do more to destroy a way of life than all our special ops troops combined, look what they are doing to our own communities. In that way we can disengage from the rest of the worlds problems. We need to back our businesses,you burn our store ,we'll level your city, but otherwise ,Oh your starving in Sudan ,TOUGH , We're having a blue light special on oatmeal at K-Mart Buy or die.
Basicly I think that the best argument for Disengagement is that we have no freinds among the other major nations except England (sometimes) We have friends among the small nations only when they need us, and our current crop of "Statesman" lack the guts for the type of back alley tactics required for modern "diplomacy"
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Wisdom Spoken Tom! +1
The US.mil aren't a glorified world police force. If we were concerned with WMD sites, we should have pumped some iron bombs into where they were set up. We had controlled Iraqi skies COMPLETELY since 1991. A conventional bomb releasing death clouds from rupturing WMD labs would have been all the proof necessary. Instead, Bush sat on his hands as convoys full of materials were exported to Syria.
One swift interception of that convoy...
And don't get me started on all the experienced leadership Rumsfeld castrated from the Pentagon because his ego was so huge.
Oh well. What if's and whatevers. I want a Reagan-style conservative, not some religious fanatic trying to shove more government intrusion into the lives of citizens.
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Teddy Roosevelt, Where are you when we need you
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Teddy Roosevelt, Where are you when we need you
Quoted for truth.
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How about that, Tom? We DO agree on something. Our now retired Senator, Jesse Helms, predicted this current state of our Union, including the result of NAFTA, et al, and he was mercilessly pilloried in the press nationwide. He was right. You are right.
Just Dammit!! Mac.
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A man with a privy in his avatar CAN"T disagree with me ALL the time :D
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Being a card carrying member of the OTHER Proud & Few (a libertarian not a USMC) here is my take on the pres race (and all others fwiw). I honestlly believe my party's policies could & would be the best thing to happen for & to the USA.I'll be the first to acknowledge that we rarely win elections but we & like-minded voters often decide elections.IMO,an anti-2A GOP president is more dangerous than an anti-2A democrat president b/c so many fence-sitters in the House & Senate will vote partyline on 2A issues esp AWB ,SNS,EBR etc.I will not vote for any of the Democrat candidates nor will I vote for Mitt,Rudy or John Mac & while I'd love to vote for Fred it probably will not be an option.I then will choose to punish the GOP & hope the Dems screw up so badly that they'll lose Congress in 2 years.I'll also be doing some serious e-mail & talk-time with my Senator (he is a GOP & will being facing a real test for the first time in a long time) about the George W backstab & his reaction to it.So as to give non-libs a little insight to our views & what is IMO the best assessment of the GOP & Dems current policy I'll share this quote from one of our past pres candidates "The Democrats & Republicans are the same,they are both driving the USA to hell.The only difference is the Democrats are on a fast train & the Republicans are on a slow boat."
A quote to contemplate....much wisdom in those words.