The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on April 15, 2010, 06:19:38 PM
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Who are these idiots, and why are they running our country ???
Return to the moon?: "I just have to say... we've been there before"
Video here:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/15/obama-hey-lets-land-astronauts-on-an-asteroid/
*Poor JFK is rolling.
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Ooo, Ooo, I know....let's go to Saturn and race around and around on it's rings......... ::) ::) ::)
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I have a better idea... lets cut out NASA all toegther...
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I have a better idea... lets cut out NASA all toegther...
I sure hope you're kidding. (but I'm sure you're not)
NASA is more than space exploration. Actually extraterrestrial missions are a small percentage of NASA's annual budget, it is just the most visible.
The computer you type that post on-directly tied to the Apollo program.
The cell phone you use to talk- communications equipment developed to control satelites and get data back from space.
Safer air travel- tested daily at the NASA facility in Cleveland and improved at NASA Ames in Sunnyvale CA.
Better synthetic materials, including nylon and other clothing textiles- again developed for use in the space program, among other uses.
Safer drinking water, produced cheaper and recyclable-you get the idea.
I'd rather see welfare go away before NASA.
I'm almost ashamed to admit, after reading the NASA page on the President's visit, that I actually agree with him on that point. We have allowed ourselves to fall behind and let the one governmen agency that is CHARTERED to improve our quality of life by advancing the science and exploration of our planet and beyond to atrophe to a shell of it's former self. We have lost sight of President Kennedy's vision of exploration "Let both sides seek to invoke the wonders of science instead of its terrors. Together let us explore the stars, conquer the deserts, eradicate disease, tap the ocean depths, and encourage the arts and commerce." "We need men who can dream of things that never were."
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I understand the tech that the space progarm has produce. I just think there are better ways to spend the money. Other types of research could be funded with that money.
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I understand the tech that the space progarm has produce. I just think there are better ways to spend the money. Other types of research could be funded with that money.
Thats a valid point... If we went down another path we might not have all the electronic gizmos that we are all so used to, but there might be a cure for cancer.
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Thats a valid point... If we went down another path we might not have all the electronic gizmos that we are all so used to, but there might be a cure for cancer.
While I won't deniy that, but the space program is more than electronics. There have been significant research done, on the ground and in space, on food production (higher yeild crops with less waste,) and simple waste handling (nothing like having to sleep next to your garbage for a week or more as incentive). You'd actually be surprised at what NASA is funded to research.
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NASA has probably done more to advance medical treatment than any other government agency and perhaps more than all combined.
The remote monitoring of patients and so much of the modern diagnostic equipment has it's roots in the space program monitoring the astronauts.
I have no idea how many advances in the understanding of human physiology have come by way of understanding and monitoring astronauts.
The electronic gadgets we have to play with are minor byproducts of the space programs equipment development.
If NASA received royalties for it's inventions, they wouldn't ever need to ask for a budget.
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Astronauts shouldn't worry about losing their jobs. They'll be able to contract out to the Chinese when they start setting up their moon colony.
A billion+ need room to grow.
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Astronauts shouldn't worry about losing their jobs. They'll be able to contract out to the Chinese when they start setting up their moon colony.
A billion+ need room to grow.
They aren't worried. They own most of the U.S. Hard to call them illegal aliens when they hold the deed to our country. :(
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This is one of those rare times when everyone has valid points. Solus hit some good ones. NASA is definitely beneficial, and I'd hate to see it go away.......but like any agency, they could handle their budget better.
Every time I think about NASA, I remember an old joke I heard once about NASA spending billions to develop an ink pen that would write in zero gravity, any atmosphere and any position. While the Russians just used a pencil.
;D
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But the Russians didn't do it because they were clever or logical, they did it because their "planned" economy did not leave them money enough to research their own pen and they could not steal the plans to ours.
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But the Russians didn't do it because they were clever or logical, they did it because their "planned" economy did not leave them money enough to research their own pen and they could not steal the plans to ours.
There you go again......throwing glimpses of our own future at us again..........gee, thanks. :(
BTW, the guy that told me the joke, a neighbor, worked as an engineer for NASA in the 60's.......until he got tired of the BS and came home to run the family dairy.
;D
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Sorry to be a Killjoy
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Sorry to be a Killjoy
Just one of the things I admire about you.......perfect timing with those little 'reality slaps'.
8)
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I've had other people describe it as a total lack of "tact", and "discretion".
I'll have to look those words up someday. ;D
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But the Russians didn't do it because they were clever or logical, they did it because their "planned" economy did not leave them money enough to research their own pen and they could not steal the plans to ours.
The fact that the Russians did not develop a science base that was productive and instead used a lot of spying to provide plans always put them behind. It put them behind in space travel and it put them behind in national defense. It has been reported that the Russians were absolutely astounded how quickly Sadam fell in the first war against the U.S. war machine.
Now we are canceling advanced programs and research. We had such an edge and you can't rebuild such a thing overnight. We have been infiltrated by Chinese agents who carry on the Russian tradition but they have numbers and manufacturing the Russians only dream about.
We need a NASA budget, heck, we need a national vision that is not a large part of today's vision...what can government put in my outstretched hand. I've posted before we need a national program to develop room temperature superconductors. 30%-40% of the power generated never reaches our home and businesses due to line loss. A crash program in batteries...by the time you get a battery powered car on the road it's lost 50% of the energy a gallon of gas can provide and provides faux benefits to the environment...might be cleaner on your street but it's more damaging to "the villiage" as a whole. Medical research, materials research, etc. improves our lives. Big government should have focus on providing answers to questions that can't be easily solved or that may never be solved but that have such great value the problem cannot be ignored...things corporations cannot do or would go bankrupt attempting to do.
Instead govenment does not protect it's citizenry and allows millions of illegals in which requires more and more money to go to entitlements and basic services and detracts from funding greatness in lieu of funding votes to keep politicians in power.
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Back to the original story:
Did they show Armageddon on Air Force One on his way to Florida? It is not bad to have dreams and goals, but what is his reasoning behind this new venture of trying to hit a moving target?
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I've had other people describe it as a total lack of "tact", and "discretion".
I'll have to look those words up someday. ;D
Tact: Telling someone where to go so well, they look forward to the trip!
Discretion: Humping your girlfriend in the back seat instead of on the hood of the car at the Walmart!
;)
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Back to the original story:
Did they show Armageddon on Air Force One on his way to Florida? It is not bad to have dreams and goals, but what is his reasoning behind this new venture of trying to hit a moving target?
I can see the asteroid though, from a stepping stone perspective. The moon has a predictable orbit and is relatively stable, we can track it with a great deal of accuracy since it is close. Going further out, to say Mars, our error is significantly worse. Think of it as a unknown distance bullseye shot. If it's close you can be assured a hit, as the distance increases your chances go down for a clean hit. If you can successfully hit something at a middle distance your chances of the further distance go up. In space travel you only get one good chance so stacking the deck in your favor is always a good plan.
Also we don't really know a lot about asteroids and their make up. Where do they come from? How are they formed? The fragments that enter our atmosphere give a glimps but actually hitting one would allow for much more detailed analysis.
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Back to the original story:
Did they show Armageddon on Air Force One on his way to Florida? It is not bad to have dreams and goals, but what is his reasoning behind this new venture of trying to hit a moving target?
Thank you. That was my point originally. If we are gonna spend all this money lets atleast give all the great minds at NASA a goal worthy of their greatness. Landing on an asteroid is probably one of the stupidest ideas they could come up with. I'm betting this is something handed down from a think tank inside the administration, not a NASA derived project. Jeez, sounds like the smartest guy in the room was probably just a community organizer. ::)
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All B S to distract the worker bees.
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All B S to distract the worker bees.
Nope.... Its an attempt to buy Florida voters ;)
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ASTRO GLIDE!!!!! another NASA success! ;D
(just thought I'd point that out)
deepwater
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JNevis raises a great point. The mathematics and maneuverability required to actually land on something like an asteroid would open the door (coupled with an advanced propulsion system ) to actual Sci Fi style navigation (Astrogation ).
Here are 3 things to think about, and comment on. (FQ, This means YOU ;D )
1 - Besides the physical benefits of new materials and technologies, "the space program" provides a horizon for the the dreamers and adventurers. The entire "age of exploration" took place because humanity is like a gas or virus, it spreads to fill the available space, and the best method of assuring survival of the "tribe" is by dispersal to other "host bodies". There are people who just need to know what's over the next hill. I actually blame the stagnation of America on the loss of "New Frontiers" to explore.
2 - Water Borne Trade started with floating down the Nile , it spread to the Mediterranean, Traders and Captains wanted greater range and speed. This lead them first, across the Med itself, then, into, and eventually across the Atlantic.
The basic lesson seems to be that trade spreads. In order to continue to grow industry needs to continuously open new markets. There are darn few if any new markets left on the planet. An organism like humanity can only do 3 things , Grow, Stagnate,(which will lead to decline and death) or die. Trade is the same way so in order to continue on our accustomed path we need to begin planting consuming colonies either under the sea (which is good practice for Space ) Or in Space
3 - Should Govt fund the space program ? I have to say less, I think that modern technologies and materials make it time to remove the "burden" from Govt. and pure Science and hand it over to private funds and industry.
I get far more thrill from a project like "Space Ship One" than I do another Shuttle launch.
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There's no where for us to go, even if we wanted to go anywhere. NASA should be scaled back to unmanned operations and not concern itself with happenings beyond Luna.
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There's no where for us to go, even if we wanted to go anywhere. NASA should be scaled back to unmanned operations and not concern itself with happenings beyond Luna.
They used to say the world was flat and if you went past "The Pillars of Hercules" you would fall off the edge based on exactly the same type of scientific observation.
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They used to say the world was flat and if you went past "The Pillars of Hercules" you would fall off the edge based on exactly the same type of scientific observation.
Where to than boss? And how do we get there? And why? The space program, I believe, offers many benefits, but you'll never see more than a few travelers about the vacuum. And how does that improve our lives?
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To qoute a valiant space traveler!
'TO INFINITY, ANY BEYOND!'
;D
Personally, I don't care much about Mars, I prefer Snickers!
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All these things are great, but can all these pie in the sky asteroid missions be afforded in this current economic climate? Its the same as if it were a business with maxed out credit and that is on the verge of bankruptsy...... Should they be pourings gobs of cash into R&D for products/technology that wont really reach their full potential for decades?
Rome is burning, Nero.
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Where to than boss? And how do we get there? And why? The space program, I believe, offers many benefits, but you'll never see more than a few travelers about the vacuum. And how does that improve our lives?
The Boss suggests undersea development and space. Space would include permanent space stations, Lagrange Point colonies and colonies on moon.
Aside from the technological advancements that would be forthcoming, there is, as Tom pointed out, the much greater, but let tangible, benefit of giving us a goal to achieve and dreams to attain.
It may take centuries, but it won't start till that first steps are taken.
Interstellar propulsion is feasible. The 'Solar Wind' augmented by LASER cannon in space can provide the energy needed to reach close star system. Yes, it would take generations for the trip...but I bet there would be no shortage of volunteers.
One of the big problems would be to overcome the current 'demand' for everything to be totally safe.
I have an image of the expression on an OSHA Inspector's face as he stands on the dock with Christopher Columbus looking at the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria.
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All these things are great, but can all these pie in the sky asteroid missions be afforded in this current economic climate? Its the same as if it were a business with maxed out credit and that is on the verge of bankruptsy...... Should they be pourings gobs of cash into R&D for products/technology that wont really reach their full potential for decades?
Rome is burning, Nero.
Can we afford not to ? The last "Great Depression was ended by WWII. The nature of modern warfare means that it would be over before new workers could be hired, let alone trained. that leaves only opening new markets or some new technology.
As for it making money, turn it over to private industry and let them hold contests like the Bendix Trophy race to spur development.
Competition will supply the technologies needed to make it practical such as a Near or faster than light propulsion system.
Your argument is like the tree huggers saying No drilling for Oil because we will not benefit for 10 years.
If we had started 10 or 20 years ago we would already be getting that oil, the reason we are not is the nay sayers.
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Why 4 Feet, 8.5 Inches?
The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.
Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.
Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.
Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts.
So who built these old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.
Thus, we have the answer to the original questions. The United State standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification (Military Spec) for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. MilSpecs and Bureaucracies live forever.
So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back-ends of two war horses.
I'm sure we'll manage with or without NASA.....but I've thought that for the last twenty years.
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I'm sure we'll manage with or without NASA.....but I've thought that for the last twenty years.
I'm sure you are correct.
Some are satisfied with 'managing'.
I was hoping we would excel.
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Bureaucratic involvement in this industry will drive NASA to the will of the bureaucrats; It always has!
Most marvelous inventions and discovery are the product of mistakes. There are plenty of ways to progress scientifically if we let private industry prosper instead of trying to bury it in a mountain of BS...
Personally, I'm running out of money to loan the f..k ing government. Sorry if I sound a bit testy..... it's been one of those days...
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Of course we can land men on an asteroid. We were able to land a hemmorhoid in the Oval Office.
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Worker Bees / Voters same same only differnt.
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While were planning to land on asteroids, can we set up a crew for black hole exploration?
I nominate Nancy Pelosi, Chucky Schumer, Mayor Bloomberg, and El Presidente himself.....
We have to have some involvement in space exploration, I'd start with completing what Reagan never finished, and get Star Wars Defense system done.
Joint project with Private Contractors and NASA contributing.
Either that, or I still like the black hole thing,...
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Instead of landing astronauts on an asteroid, how about we just land an asteroid on the white house? ::)
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Instead of landing astronauts on an asteroid, how about we just land an asteroid on the white house? ::)
On the Capitol during a state of the union address..... That should take care of things ;D
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On the Capitol during a state of the union address..... That should take care of things ;D
While intriguing, I might be a LITTLE close for that, unless it was a small one, about the size of a small car.
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While your at it take him with you and leave him there.
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On the Capitol during a state of the union address..... That should take care of things ;D
That would be a National Tragedy!!! Those are beautiful, historic buildings!!
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If a hemorrhoid is a pain in the a$$, then what is an asteroid??
Sorry, couldn't help myself.