The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: SureShot on April 24, 2010, 09:34:23 PM
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O.K. guys I need to tap in to your vast knowledge. I have all ready broken in my carry gun with about 450 rounds, but it’s all been F :)MJ. Now I’m looking for a carry load, I know to fire a minimum of 100 to 150 rounds to make sure it’s reliable in my gun. This might be a dumb question. Do I have to fire all 100 rounds at the same time, or can I fire a box at a time? One box a week or so. The reason I ask is if I test more then one or two brands, this can get expensive. And one more thing, how accurate is accurate enough? What kind of grouping should I look for at three yards, out of a 3 ½ inch barrel? A one inch group, two inch, Three inch? What is acceptable? I know everyone wants a tack driver, able to punch one hole at three yards, but how big a group is to big? Thanks, and stay safe.
Paul
Proud NRA, TSRA and GRRN member
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When you find out let me know. ;D I can't afford to shoot that many SD rounds. I've settled on 124 gain Golden Saber, but at $2 a roud its been one box down the range and the rest el cheapo wal mart specials. Non-ideal, but I don't have $200 to piss away firing the things. I'll take my accuracy with other 124 grains and 20 rounds for a performance check and leave it at that. I mean hell, its going to be inside of ten yards anyway. If I win the powerball, I'll update. :-\
FQ13
PS Welcome aboard
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Fire enough of the good stuff to be sure it will feed properly then do the rest of your shooting with cheap stuff.
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Not dumb questions, by any means.......but, there is no cut and dried answer either.
Practicing with SD carry ammo is expensive. You have to decide on how many rounds of a particular ammo type/brand you are comfortable with before carrying it as a SD round. Then shoot as much as money will allow until you are comfortable with it. I personally will not carry a particular ammo brand until I have ran 200-250 rounds (but that is just me) and I can't afford to do it all at once either. Until I am comfortable with an ammo as a SD round, I only carry what I know will work, and in most cases that is FMJ. Any time I have taken up a new gun as a carry gun, after break-in, if the only ammo I have tested is FMJ, then I carry FMJ until I can run enough rounds of another type through it to be comfortable. And yes, I do understand that FMJ is not optimal for SD ammo (there are valid concerns with over penetration and/or less than acceptable stopping abilities), but reliability in a carry gun is paramount (IMHO) over ammo vetting. The gun has to run, first and foremost, to stop a fight.
As to combat accuracy, if you can routinely keep all your shots in an 8" paper plate at combat distances, you should be good to go.
***This is by no means an expert opinion, YMMV, so take it with the recommended grain of salt.***
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I agree with Peg. For a good SD check out Hornady Critical Defense or Cor-Bon Power Ball. Both are configured to feed in almost anything while still expanding. Back when ammo was cheap(er) I still couldn't afford to run a lot of SD ammo thru my carry guns. The only thing I was able to do is use them in competition to make sure they would run with reloads. That does not meen they are 100% because nothing is ....REMEMBER MURPHY! But I am very secure with what I carry.
FWIW
Richard
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One other thing to consider is the magazines you are using - be sure to use the ones you are going to carry when testing your SD rounds. It might sound silly if you only have two magazines but as your collection grows you end up with all sorts of magazines. This is especially true if you're into 1911s. ;D
After a couple of hundred FMJ I will run three or four magazines of SD ammo before I feel comfortable with it. After that I kind of think you are just wasting money. As always, YMMV.
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All good advice. Don't forget the failure drill!!!
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Try Federal expanding FMJ... if you can find some.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=403
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=401
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=406
Otherwise, I've used ball as a carry ammo until I've run a few boxes of premium defense stuff. I too have settled on Golden Sabers for my 1911 but tried a few others as well in case the Remington are in short supply. It helps that I carry a revolver too so I have something while I'm going through testing. They always go bang.....I didn't bother testing defensive ammo at all in that.
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SD ammo feeding issues? Whats that? ;D
Carry a wheel gun.
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If you have reloading gear or would be interested in learning that skill, you can consider this.
Chronograph your chosen SD rounds to get the muzzle velocity.
Find a cheap bullet of the same weight, configuration won't make much difference at SD range.
Load and chronograph them until you get a load with the same velocity as your chosen SD loads.
This will give you practice loads as similar to your chosen SD ammo as possible without knowing the burning characteristics of the powder being used in your SD ammo.
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I have to question some of these self defense "rules" a bit. I hear at least 500 to 1,000 rounds for a "brake in", then at least 200 rounds of whatever factory self defense ammo you'll be carrying. With cheap .45 ACP hardball going for $20.00+ a box now, that equates to at least $400.00+. Now add in the 200 rounds of premium self defense ammo at around $22.00+ for 20, that is another $220.00+. Now you're up to a minimum of $620.00, or more than you paid for the Glock you're going to run it through.
Yes, if you handload you can carve off a big chunk of that, but most CCW owners don't handload. With the cost of the gun you're talking over $1,200.00 by the time you become harder to take down than Steve McQueen. That isn't much to quibble about with something that protects your life. But, with that said in today's economy few CCW holders are going to do it simply because they cannot afford it.
Everyone cringes when someone mentions FMJ roundnose hardball for self defense applications, but there are a lot of enemy soldiers that are in the cemetery because of exactly that. I think a better solution is to shoot as much cheap hardball as you can afford. When you do have a few extra bucks buy a box of the high priced stuff and run it through. If, over time, you find that you have run 80 or 100 rounds, (4 or 5 boxes), of premium ammo with no hangups, go ahead and use it. I base this on the fact most auto pistols will either run with a given brand or configuration of ammo, or they won't.
If they won't you'll see it with the first magazine full most of the time. "Sometimes" problems in guns are far more rare than they are in cars. If there still is doubt use hardball for carry. If you can shoot accurately it is going to have far more bearing on your survival than some super trick ammo will. A gun has to go bang to defend you. Everything else is speculative. Bill T.
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Break it in with ball, put at least 20 rounds of your SD ammo...50 is better...
My suggestion is start with one of the "name" SD rounds...Golden Saber, Hornady TAPs or their Critical Defense ammo, Corbon DPX...any of the premium brands will get you through the night. If you run at least 200 rounds of ball through it with no failures and you get no failures with the 20 SD rounds, I'd carry that.
Acceptable combat accurate is whatever you feel comfortable with. All modern guns will shoot better than most people can shoot them...if you're putting all your rounds into that 8-inch pie plate at 21 feet under some kind of time pressure, you can live with that. I strongly recommend that everyone learns to shoot a group...you can do that will the "dot drill," a bunch of stick-on 1-inch dots on a big piece of cardboard. Start at 3 feet...yes, 3 feet! See if you can put 5 rounds into that 1-inch dot. If you can't look at where the shots are going and make changes accordingly. When you can put all 5 shots in the dot, move back to, say, 6 feet and repeat. If 3 feet is too easy, start at 3 yards. The key is that you are teaching your subconscious to shoot a group. When you start going faster, you need the basic skill — the ability to deliver the shot on demand — in place.
I suggest competition, but then, I always do!
Michael B
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Sage advice, once again!
Sometimes you'll get lucky and buy a gun that will eat anything. Mine is a Para LTC....eats and poops brass a country mile...