The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: palmbay lou on April 28, 2010, 09:25:49 PM
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This will take place tomorrow, Thursday, April 29, 2010, if you know anyone living in Puerto Rico then ask them to confirm or disregard. I say it is true, read on.
The legislation is for real, although it has not been touched since last year. I have not heard about this until I watched Glenn Beck this evening: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4170665/the-one-thing-428
See it here on Govtrack.us: http://www.govtrack.us/co.../bill.xpd?bill=h111-2499
I won't say too much about this because Glenn gives a much better explanation of the deception of our Congress and this present Administration than I ever could. What can any of us do about this in such short notice you may ask? I don't know except raise the roof anywhere, anyway you can. Call your Senators' offices and tell them you do not want this, call your Congressperson and say the same. This is not about discrimination of the people of Puerto Rico, this is about the corrupt government of this country attempting to manipulate our laws to collect votes the same as their motivation to give illegal immigrants amnesty, to buy votes. This may the way of daily politics but it is not my daily way and I do not believe it is the way of the people of this forum. If this does pass at least you will be informed and you can give explanation to your family and neighbors why the Red, White and Blue has fifty-one stars on it.
May God continue to bless America and all those who love her with their lives, amen.
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Confirm!
It was on Beck tonight.... more here:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/28/house-to-vote-on-puerto-rico-statehood-bill-tomorrow/
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Puerto Rico, since 1967 has voted many times to NOT become a state, they enjoy their independence, and yet dependence as an American territory. They also have a flat tax, and I'm sure the thought of changing all that to our tax laws, just inspires them..
This is "stealth" legislation to get votes, pander to Hispanics, and secure more liberal constituents.
There is no room on the Flag,.....sorry...
Co-Sponsors of the Bill, please let them know.....
Pedro Pierluisi PR
Neil Abercrombie (D) HI
W. Akin (R) MO
Joe Baca (D) CA
Brian Baird (D) WA
Tammy Baldwin (D) WI
Shelley Berkley (D) NV
http://www.hr2499.org/
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On the contrary, there is plenty of room on the flag. The same holds true of all US territories, just like it did for the contiguous lower 48, HI. and AK. I really think they should have the right to choose between the staus quo, statehood or independence. I'm good either way. Just know that statehood and indepence are one way streets, all the way in, or all the way out. I don't think we have the right to hold a territory against its will, or deny a people the franchise if they live under our laws. However, the decision should be made locally, not in Congress. I mean after all, we can live without Puerto Rico, and we can live with them as the fifty first state, sort of like Miami, only they speak better English. ;)
FQ13
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The territories are money pit's, Considering the current economy I think they should all either come in or go out, I don't care . But shut the damn door !
( None of you ever heard THAT before have you ;D )
PS, Don't worry about the Hispanic thing, Mexicans and Puerto Rican's HATE each other ;D
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Agreed, I'd even be willing to consider offering Mexico statehood, if they agreed to live under our laws, break into a few states, and adopted English. We took half their country before, and I notice no one seems to be crossing the border southward from Tx., Az. Ca., etc.. (This is said mostly in jest, but only mostly). Puerto Rico as another Carribean nation, fine. Puerto Rico or Guam et al. as the 51st state, also fine. Just make sure they decide in an election that is internationally monitored and squeaky clean, as I don't want to hear bitching about how us colonialists forced them into anything. Figure it out and let us know. Just understand that if you want independence there will be no free green cards and if you want statehood you better work on your English. Inside those parameters, I'm happy.
FQ13 who does have a soft spot for manifest destiny, as long as its consensual. In or out, see if I care, just understand that if the answer is in, you play by our rules.
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What about a "Commonwealth" ?
By the way, What we lopped off of Mexico was well over half, closer to 3/4 ;D.
If I remember correctly , the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo granted Mexico $3 million in damages and Compensation and we keep the territory.
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What about a "Commonwealth" ?
By the way, What we lopped off of Mexico was well over half, closer to 3/4 ;D.
If I remember correctly , the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo granted Mexico $3 million in damages and Compensation and we keep the territory.
Well, we did pay the French $6 million for the Louisiana Purchase so it seems fair. ;) On a not so funy note, the treaty also included a clause that all mexican citizens and descendents be classified as white under US law. (This back in 1848). Black folks don't resent that, no, not even a little bit. :o ::). Once again I return to my question of what Sharpton and company are thinking when they try to defend illegal immigrants in the 'hood? Let me know how well that works out for you.
FQ13
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We should not let them become a state. For one reason, it should not be allowed simply because they want to, but also just for the simple economics of it all. Their avg household income is something like $17,000. Basically they would pay little to no taxes, but we would be sending them gobs and gobs of money. Puerto Rico basicly is looking for us to bailout their terrible economy. The CBO said the cost would be massive. Its like a family that is on the verge of bankruptsy going out and buying a boat. Does not make good sense.
The only reason the dems want to move on this is to get votes. The major political party down there is pretty much a social justice Obama-like group that will most definately vote Dem. It will be another shining example of reprisentation without taxation, and the ultimate example of buying votes.
Its also dirty how they are going about this. They are rigging the vote. Its not an up or down "Do you want to become a state" like it has been in the past. (see below)
(Begins 3:30 mark)
First, the legislation sets up a voting process rigged for success. The legislation sets up a preliminary vote and the voters are given two options. If a majority of Puerto Ricans vote in favor of changing the status of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to “a different political status,” then a second vote would be scheduled to poll voters on the following three options:
1. “Independence: Puerto Rico should become fully independent from the United States;”
2. “Sovereignty in Association with the United States: Puerto Rico and the United States should form a political association between sovereign nations that will not be subject to the Territorial Clause of the United States Constitution;” and,
3. “Statehood: Puerto Rico should be admitted as a State of the Union.”
Puerto Ricans have rejected statehood in the last three self-determination elections, and independence is extremely unpopular. The strategy to virtually eliminate as an option for voters Puerto Rico’s current status as a commonwealth, leaving only independence and statehood as options, will all but guarantee a statehood landslide. The plan is spelled out in their legislation (pp. 7-8) and can be found here. The New Progressive Party (PNP), which is pro-statehood, controls all branches of government. There is little doubt that this bill would become law soon after the U.S. Congress passes the Puerto Rico Democracy Act…
Why do pro-statehood leaders use such strong-arm tactics to force their way into the Union? The main reason is that Puerto Rico’s economy is in shambles and it needs a bailout from the U.S. Treasury that it could not hope to get as a commonwealth.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/28/house-to-vote-on-puerto-rico-statehood-bill-tomorrow/
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The territories are money pit's, Considering the current economy I think they should all either come in or go out, I don't care . But shut the damn door !
( None of you ever heard THAT before have you ;D )
PS, Don't worry about the Hispanic thing, Mexicans and Puerto Rican's HATE each other ;D
Like cats and dogs! We have a Puerto Rican guy working our vault and I bust on him every opportunity Ii get, and vice versa. This job is kinda like a fraternity and the good natured insults fly fast and furious.
My latest was (as he was handing me my route shipments), "How many Mexicans does it take to do the work of one Puerto Rican?"
"How many?", he asked with a smile.
"When we get a Puerto Rican that works I'll let you know."
Damn, I didn't know a small bag of large bills could hurt so much... ;D
As to making PR the 51st state, I say we give them their autonomy. My above mentioned buddy said even he won't go back there. You are no longer required to wait at red lights after 2200 - you can just stop and go so you are not robbed, carjacked or attacked. Nat Guard has taken over LE, etc.
In other words, PR is an anarchy. Cut 'em loose.
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Like cats and dogs! We have a Puerto Rican guy working our vault and I bust on him every opportunity Ii get, and vice versa. This job is kinda like a fraternity and the good natured insults fly fast and furious.
My latest was (as he was handing me my route shipments), "How many Mexicans does it take to do the work of one Puerto Rican?"
"How many?", he asked with a smile.
"When we get a Puerto Rican that works I'll let you know."
Damn, I didn't know a small bag of large bills could hurt so much... ;D
As to making PR the 51st state, I say we give them their autonomy. My above mentioned buddy said even he won't go back there. You are no longer required to wait at red lights after 2200 - you can just stop and go so you are not robbed, carjacked or attacked. Nat Guard has taken over LE, etc.
In other words, PR is an anarchy. Cut 'em loose.
In other words it's just another Caribean island , like Cuba in the 50's.
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Update: It passed
http://www.examiner.com/x-34929-Manhattan-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m4d30-HR-2499-passes-moving-Puerto-Rico-one-step-closer-to-statehood
It's only a first step, but for better or worse the wheels have been set in motion. Yesterday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.R. 2499, which puts Puerto Ricans on the fast track to statehood, should that be the decision residents of that island territory make going forward. The vote was 223 to 169, with one vote of "present" by Rep. Louise Slaughter, of New York.
The measure offers Puerto Rico, which has been a U.S. territory for 112 years, a two-step vote. Step one would ask Puerto Ricans, including those living in the United States, whether they want to remain a territorial commonwealth or would prefer to change their status. A vote for change, which is likely, would lead to a second vote with three options: statehood, independence, or an independent "free association" with the U.S. Again, voters given these options would most likely choose statehood.
Supporters say the measure, which is non-binding, gives citizens of the island the right to self-determination.?? Opponents say it is is a thinly veiled maneuver to impose statehood on a population that doesn't want it.?? ??As noted here, Democrats are confident that, should Puerto Rico opt for statehood, the two new senators and Congress members who would be seated as a result would join their caucus.
Here in New York, the vote thrust into vivid relief a schism between Congress members who themselves hail from the island territory. Bronx Rep. Jose Serrano favored passage of the measure, calling it a vital step to ending what he termed "colonial rule." Brooklyn Rep. Nydia Velazquez, usually an ally of Serrano, called the measure a "disgrace," "shameful" and "appalling." Enlarging on her position, Velazquez is quoted by the New York Daily News as saying, "It is baffling that the statehood option, which lost in 1967, in 1993 and again in 1998, is now allowed to scheme its way to victory."
It is worth emphasizing that if Puerto Ricans were to select statehood, Congress would still have to vote to admit the island to the union as the 51st state.?? ??It is also worth noting that Puerto Rico is currently facing a banking crisis of its own, which has plunged the territory into financial distress that makes the recession here seem like a walk in the park.
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It is also worth noting that Puerto Rico is currently facing a banking crisis of its own, which has plunged the territory into financial distress that makes the recession here seem like a walk in the park.
Can't let a good crisis go to waste, eh?
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I do not know if I am correct on this but from what I understand A US Territory must pettition the US Government to concider thier request for admission to Statehood. I do not believe it can be requested by House or Senate Members from outside entities.
In my own opinion we should have cut the cord from them and all other territories a long time ago.
Mike Mc
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Hello Swamp Yankee:
If you had a chance to view the video link posted of Glenn Beck he explains how Congress is going to rig the whole thing by giving a rigged ballot to the Puerto Rican people. It is something called the Virginia plan, I know it has something to do with Virginia. The point is this would eliminate the step of Puerto Rico asking for statehood. They will make the ballot sound like a questionnaire. This is like during the health care vote when the dems talked about the "Slaughter solution," named after the democratic congresswoman from New York. Congress wants to avoid a very necessary step all for getting more senate seats and two more congressional seats. They see the storm brewing come November and they know Republicans will be voted in and dems voted out. They want to increase the amount of Senators and Congressmen so as to possibly offset the new Republicans coming in to government. They want to hold on to their majority even if it is by one or two seats or at least have enough of a presence to give Republicans a hard time. It is nothing about Puerto Rico or its people, it is nothing about due process and following the Constitution, it is all about staying in control, staying in power and pushing through as much of their progressive legislation as they can while they can.
There really is no such thing as a fair fight...agreed? There is also nothing right or good about what this president and his administration and progressive/socialist congress are doing either. They are all acting like ambulance chasing lawyers trying to get someone to run out in front of the ambulance so they can slap the city with a law suit. These people are twisting words of decency and truth into trash and it will make the faint-hearted loose faith in our country and its laws. We must keep informing everyone who will listen that we must hold on to the America that we know and love in our hearts, that is going to be our map for putting it back together.
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Virginia plan ?
THIS Virginia Plan ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Plan
The Virginia Plan (also known as the Randolph Plan, after its sponsor, or Large-State Plan)[1] was a proposal by Virginia delegates, drafted by James Madison while he waited for a quorum to assemble at the Philadelphia Convention of 1787.[2][3] The Virginia Plan was notable for its role in setting the overall agenda for debate in the convention and, in particular, for setting forth the idea of population-weighted representation in the proposed National Legislature
he Virginia Plan proposed instead a legislative branch consisting of two chambers (bicameral legislature), with the dual principles of rotation in office and recall applied to the lower house of the national legislature.[5] Each of the states would be represented in proportion to their “Quotas of contribution, or to the number of free inhabitants.”[6] States with a large population, like Virginia (which was the most populous state at the time), would thus have more representatives than smaller states. Large states supported this plan, and smaller states, which feared losing substantial power in the national government, generally opposed it, preferring an alternative put forward by the New Jersey delegation on June 15. The New Jersey Plan proposed a single-chamber legislature in which each state, regardless of size, would have one vote, as under the Articles of Confederation. In the end, the convention settled on the Connecticut Compromise, creating a House of Representatives apportioned by population and a Senate in which each state is equally represented.
In addition to dealing with legislative representation, the Virginia Plan addressed other issues as well, with many provisions that did not make it into the Constitution that emerged. It called for a national government of three branches—legislative, executive, and judicial. Members of one of the two legislative chambers would be elected by the people; members of that chamber would then elect the second chamber from nominations submitted by state legislatures. The executive would be chosen by the legislative branch. Terms of office were unspecified, although the executive and members of the popularly elected legislative chamber were to be limited to one term. The legislative branch would have the power to negate state laws in cases in which they were deemed incompatible with the articles of union. The concept of checks and balances was embodied in a provision that legislative acts could be vetoed by a council composed of the executive and selected members of the judicial branch; their veto could be overridden by an unspecified legislative majority.