The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on May 06, 2010, 09:39:58 AM
-
Freedom of expression or cultural disrespect on Cinco de Mayo?
By GEORGE KIRIYAMA
Updated 6:26 AM PDT, Thu, May 6, 2010
On any other day at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, Daniel Galli and his four friends would not even be noticed for wearing T-shirts with the American flag. But Cinco de Mayo is not any typical day especially on a campus with a large Mexican American student population.
Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break when the vice principal asked two of the boys to remove American flag bandannas that they wearing on their heads and for the others to turn their American flag T-shirts inside out. When they refused, the boys were ordered to go to the principal's office.
"They said we could wear it on any other day," Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."
The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus.
"They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended," Dominic Maciel, Galli's friend, said.
The boys really had no choice, and went home to avoid suspension. They say they're angry they were not allowed to express their American pride. Their parents are just as upset, calling what happened to their children, "total nonsense."
"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."
But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.
"I think they should apologize cause it is a Mexican Heritage Day," Annicia Nunez, a Live Oak High student, said. "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that. We wouldn't do that on Fourth of July."
As for an apology, the boys and their families say, "fat chance."
"I'm not going to apologize. I did nothing wrong," Galli said. "I went along with my normal day. I might have worn an American flag, but I'm an American and I'm proud to be an American."
The five boys and their families met with a Morgan Hill Unified School District official Wednesday night. The district released a statement saying it does not agree with how Live Oak High School administrators handled this incident.
The boys will not be suspended and they were told they can go back to school Thursday. They may even wear their red, white, and blue colors again, but this time, the day after Cinco de Mayo, there will be no controversy.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html
comments at link
-
-
Off course.... The American flag is racist ::)
*Exit Question: What flag was the school flying on the pole out front?
-
And all any one does about it is bitch.
-
The administrator showed his opinion of Mexican Americans and more disrespect for them with his statment
"The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus."
than the boys did by wearing their countries flag.
-
UPDATE: Contact info.....
Live Oak School
Switchboard (408) 201-6100
Fax (408) 776-9097
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/LOacorns?v=wall
P Nick Boden / Principal
Email: Nick.Boden@mhu.k12.ca.us
Miguel Rodriguez / Assistant Principal
Email:Miguel.Rodriguez@mhu.k12.ca.us
-
Two things I notice about this story:
1) By not meeting with the boys and their parents until last NIGHT, the school system, which SAYS it doesn't agree with the Principal's action, gave it at the very least nodding approval by the timing of that meeting. After all, the boys had, by that time, been deprived of the remainder of the school day.
2) Is anybody else NOT surprised that this story comes from "The Granola State"?
-
I came on to post about this, after a friend told me about it. This Principal needs to be fired! Keep filling his inbox.
I read it at the link below, which includes photo of another student wearing a actual Mexican flag! CRAP! If there is any incendiary statements being made, they are are by those who wish to wave Mexican flags in the United States (…where anyone should be able to wear the red, white and blue, or fly the flag).
http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/265404-five-morgan-hill-students-sent-home-for-wearing-american-flag-t-shirts (http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/265404-five-morgan-hill-students-sent-home-for-wearing-american-flag-t-shirts)
-
Why do I have the feeling there is more to this story that is not being told.
-
My post in the Politics Forum
It's not "culturally insensitive" but it IS improperly displaying the US flag per the Flag Code (US Code Section 1 Title 4)
Standards of respect
The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing, unless it is the ensign responding to a salute from a ship of a foreign nation. This tradition comes from the 1908 Summer Olympics in London, where countries were asked to dip their flag to King Edward VII: the American team flag bearer, Ralph Rose, refused in support of an Irish boycott over Great Britain's refusal to grant Irish independence, and teammate Martin Sheridan is often stated as famously proclaiming that "this flag dips to no earthly king."[1] This tradition was codified as early as the 1911 U.S. Army drill regulations.[2]
The flag should never be displayed with the union (the starred blue union) down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.[3]
The flag should not be used as "wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery",[1] or for covering a speaker's desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general (exception for coffins). Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
The flag should never be drawn back or bunched up in any way.
The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed, or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard. Another that irks me
The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, firefighters, police officers, and members of patriotic organizations.
Flag lapel pins may also be worn (they are considered replicas) and are worn near the heart.
The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.
The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. How many trash cans do you see with Stars and Stripes on them? We have a bunch, and I'm on a military base!!
The flag should never be stepped on.
The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle, railroad train, or boat.
When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.
The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.
If the flag is being used at a public or private estate, it should not be hung (unless at half staff or when an all weather flag is displayed[4]) during rain or violent weather.
When a flag is so tattered that it can no longer serve as a symbol of the United States, it should be destroyed in a dignified manner, preferably by burning. The American Legion, Boy Scouts of America[5], Girl Scouts of the USA[6] and other organizations regularly conduct dignified flag-burning ceremonies, often on Flag Day, June 14.
The flag should never touch anything beneath it. Contrary to an urban legend, the flag code does not state that a flag that touches the ground should be burned. Instead, the flag should be moved so it is not touching the ground.[7]
The flag should always be permitted to fall freely (This was not the case during the Apollo 11 moon landing when the US flag was reinforced by a horizontal bar at the top to allow full display even in absence of an atmosphere and the resulting lack of wind activity.)
Yes, the school's adminstrator is an idiot. The kids complaining can go back to Mexico if they are so proud of it. That's why we have these problems in this country, no one celebrates being an AMERICAN, its always hyphenated. African-American, Mexican-American ect history month, please.
-
J,
Those t-shirts etc are not flags. They are representations or pictures of flags. Much the same as the flag patch worn on military uniforms.
-
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/BillAyres.jpg)
Yet another gutless, brainless "educator". Bill T.
-
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/BillAyres.jpg)
Yet another gutless, brainless "educator". Bill T.
Who dat?
-
Who dat?
Hussein's buddy and mentor, Bill Ayers. He bombed the Pentagon in the 70's. He's a convicted domestic terrorist. Bill T.
-
J,
Those t-shirts etc are not flags. They are representations or pictures of flags. Much the same as the flag patch worn on military uniforms.
Beg to differ Haz. The section I posted specificlly calls out uniform patches. Flag t-shirts are some of what they were describing as inappropirate in the Title.
Sure, Title 4 really doesn't have any enforcement but I have never thought a shirt with a flag on it is appropriate, based simply on the way most of us treat our clothing. There is a large debate in the railroading,mainly modelers, about Union Pacific's current "Bulding America" paint scheme.
(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/9/7/9297.1271856688.jpg)
It looks good but unfortunately engines don't get washed very often so some of them are almost black with dirt/soot, including the flag. It's also in the Title. Somewhere I have a picture of one that the majority of the engine is REALLY dirty but someone has at least cleaned the flag portion on both sides. Those flags BTW are about 8ft tall and 12 foot long
-
Those flags BTW are about 8ft tall and 12 foot long.
I wonder how many gallons it takes to fill that tank under the belly? Bill T.
-
I wonder how many gallons it takes to fill that tank under the belly? Bill T.
The Electro-Motive Division (Of GM, not ALL of the company is bankrupt) SD70ACe shown above has a 4900 Gallon fuel tank, a 710cuIn 16 Cyl engine producing 4300 HP at a top speed of 70MPH.
http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20SD70ACe.HTML
Don't think UP will be doing a 4444 any time soon
(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/9/4/3694.1269904489.jpg)
-
My opinion is that if they are offended by the american flag they can move their collective asses to mexicon and take the principle with them.this is AMERICA after all. im fed up with the pandering to immagrants,cant do this or that ,that is patriotic,things this country is built on.screw em if they dont like our ideals ,go back where they came from,if they want to embrace our ideals they are welcome to stay...simple.
-
4,900 gallons at $3.05 a gallon = $14,945.00 to "Fill 'er up". :o Bill T.
-
4,900 gallons at $3.05 a gallon = $14,945.00 to "Fill 'er up". :o Bill T.
Yup, and UP has 1800 of that model alone running around the country, over 8500 total units, most have a similar size tank. UP's operating revenue is over 4 BILLION
-
4,900 gallons at $3.05 a gallon = $14,945.00 to "Fill 'er up". :o Bill T.
That nothing....a US Navy Cruiser carries 9600 TONS of JP-5 fuel at 6.8 lbs/gal....2,823,529 gallons....
;D
-
Limbaugh asked if Mexican Students, wore Mexican Flag shirts, on an American Holiday, would they be asked to turn their shirts inside out?
Gee, let me think.... >:(
Oh wait,....this is SanFrancisco,...they banned ROTC as well? or have they changed that?
-
4,900 gallons at $3.05 a gallon = $14,945.00 to "Fill 'er up". :o Bill T.
I doubt seriously that UP pays retail! ;)
-
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/BillAyres.jpg)
I hope I get a hand on the rope when they hang that actual genuine traitor.
He voluntarily committed violent, potentially lethal, acts on behalf of the declared Foes of the United States.
If that ISN'T treason then what is ?
-
If that ISN'T treason then what is ?
Giving him tenure ;)
*cue "professor" McCullough
-
Grrr
-
The reason the kids were sent home pisses me off more than whether they were wearing the flag wrongly or not.
But.......
I'm glad JNevis posted his post, because I see our flag disrespected in so many ways these days, mostly due to ignorance. I'm up in the air on the t-shirt flag issue...I think it depends on the context of how the flag is on the shirt. I'm definitely against the flag bandannas (JMHO). One of the biggest places I see the flag mis-used and treated wrongly is at the Olympic games (again, JMHO).
I now return you to your regular thread. ;)
-
Limbaugh asked if Mexican Students, wore Mexican Flag shirts, on an American Holiday, would they be asked to turn their shirts inside out?
Gee, let me think.... >:(
Oh wait,....this is SanFrancisco,...they banned ROTC as well? or have they changed that?
Gee, if some "rascist idiot" requested Mexican flag shirts be turned inside out, that would be intolerant, wouldn't it? Nothing quite like living in a "tolerant " and enlightened society.
Repatriation of some parts of the southern US to Mexico is underway if current trends and attitudes continue. If and after portions return to Mexico I predict Mexican squalor and poverty will engulf those areas. For everyone who left Mexico and does not want to assimilate and become a US citizen....why would they want to convert this to what is across the border?
-
maby you should get some like the new Patch I just got
I now have to work out what to put it on.
-
maby you should get some like the new Patch I just got
I now have to work out what to put it on.
We have t-shirts like that here
-
School District: Flag Clothing Incident "Extremely Unfortunate"
By JESSICA GREENE
Updated 7:43 AM PDT, Fri, May 7, 2010
Some parents of students at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill are keeping their kids home from school after tension related to an incident involving students wearing American flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo spilled out onto the streets.
The students wore T-shirts depicting the flag to school on Wednesday. Administrators told the boys the clothes could be "incendiary" and asked them turn the shirts inside-out or face suspension. The boys refused so they were sent home.
The controversy quickly spread over the Internet and became national news.
Now, the school district is sending a message to parents about the heated issue, assuring them that students will not be suspended, and that students are allowed to wear patriotic clothing.
The message was delivered from Superintendent Wesley Smith through both a letter and a voicemail. Here is the full text:
Good evening. This is Dr. Wesley Smith, Superintendent of the Morgan Hill Unified School District. The Morgan Hill Unified School District does not prohibit nor do we discourage wearing patriotic clothing. The incident on May 5 at Live Oak High School is extremely unfortunate. While campus safety is our primary concern and administrators made decisions yesterday in an attempt to ensure campus safety, students should not, and will not, be disciplined for wearing patriotic clothing. This situation and our response are under review.
We know that this is an emotionally charged topic. We would ask you to encourage your students to be safe and focus on their academics while in school. If conversations and/or activities are necessary to express their feelings on this issue, we will find appropriate venues that do not disturb student learning or jeopardize the safety of our students. Furthermore, we encourage everyone to demonstrate respect for each other, open communication, and responsibility.
Thank you for your support and understanding.
Dr. Wesley Smith
Superintendent
There was talk late Thursday of students
On Thursday, about 200 Mexican-American students walked out of class in protest of the flag clothing incident. Members of the group waved the Mexican flag and said they were marching for respect and unity. They also demanded the school suspend the boys who wore the U.S. flag-adorned clothing.
As a result of this heated debate, other Bay Area schools by the name of Live Oak have been threatened. The Live Oak School District in Santa Cruz County has received several calls from people angry about the issue, even though they are in no way involved in the Morgan Hill school's issue. That district's superintendent believes it's just a same-name misunderstanding and lack of clarity in reporting the school's location.
Administrators at Live Oak High School in Sutter County say they've also recieved violent threats. The sheriff there is concerned the person who threatened to shoot up the school or plant a bomb may follow through.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/School-District-American-Flag-Clothing-Incident-Extremely-Unfortunate-93065324.html
comments at link
-
FTA:
On Thursday, about 200 Mexican-American students walked out of class in protest of the flag clothing incident. Members of the group waved the Mexican flag and said they were marching for respect and unity. They also demanded the school suspend the boys who wore the U.S. flag-adorned clothing.
I thought we were united......under one flag......THE AMERICAN FLAG!!
I guess they stayed home the day American History was taught........oh wait, they don't teach true history any more............this the type of crap the system teaches...................
It gripes my ass to no end. >:( >:(
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
-
It gripes my ass to no end. >:( >:(
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
+1
-
So how many of the students that left school to protest will be suspended for disrupting class and leaving school without permission?
When I was in school we had a bunch of students leave class to protest the first Gulf War. They left class and went to City Hall. What amazed me was the number of DR and dentist appts that day ;D
-
I remember at the start of the first Gulf War, I was concerned that the Vietnam anti-war movement might return.
I asked a couple I was friends with who had a son in High School what his attitude was.
They said when he came home from school on 9/11 he was very angry.
He said we should nuke Afghanistan off the face of the earth. Then we should nuke Japan again, just to let the world know we never forget.
I stopped worrying so much about the anti-war attitude.
-
I remember at the start of the first Gulf War, I was concerned that the Vietnam anti-war movement might return.
I asked a couple I was friends with who had a son in High School what his attitude was.
They said when he came home from school the on 9/11 he was very angry.
He said we should nuke Afghanistan off the face of the earth. Then we should nuke Japan again, just to let the world know we never forget.
I stopped worrying so much about the anti-war attitude.
That is one of the best posts I have read in a long time. Thanks!
-
I remember at the start of the first Gulf War, I was concerned that the Vietnam anti-war movement might return.
I asked a couple I was friends with who had a son in High School what his attitude was.
They said when he came home from school on 9/11 he was very angry.
He said we should nuke Afghanistan off the face of the earth. Then we should nuke Japan again, just to let the world know we never forget.
I stopped worrying so much about the anti-war attitude.
Good one, Solus.
Reminds me of a childhood friend's father.........
He used to say when you have hit, hit hard and hit at least twice.
I said why at least twice.
He said to show the SOB that the first time wasn't a f'n accident.
-
Living where I do, I don't see this conflict that appears to be growing in schools and community between white American culture and some Hispanics. However, I do see it being exploited. Anything anti-traditional American values is good. Anything pro-traditional values is bad, but it isn't just bad - it is labeled as racist.
-
It is a simple liberal battle plan to make everybody feel that if you are not on board with them you are a racist. Best thing to do is throw it back in their face and call them racist before they get the chance to do it to you.
-
still dont understand why americans celebrate this. does no one remember the Alamo?
-
I remember at the start of the first Gulf War, I was concerned that the Vietnam anti-war movement might return.
I asked a couple I was friends with who had a son in High School what his attitude was.
They said when he came home from school on 9/11 he was very angry.
He said we should nuke Afghanistan off the face of the earth. Then we should nuke Japan again, just to let the world know we never forget.
I stopped worrying so much about the anti-war attitude.
Wow, Even I had not thought of THAT.
I like the way that kid thinks ;D
-
Wow, Even I had not thought of THAT.
I like the way that kid thinks ;D
Get his name ... You will need a Secretary of State with diplomacy skills like that!
-
Take a look at George Freidman's The Next 100 Years It lays out the drift to war with Mexico that is coming this century over the Southwest. Chapter 13. 2080: The United States, Mexico, and the Struggle for the Global Heartland
p. 223
In the mean jime this is still America. Well it used to be.
-
still dont understand why americans celebrate this. does no one remember the Alamo?
I celebrate Cinco de Mayo, and 'Remember the Alamo!' is the first and last toast.
-
Take a look at George Freidman's The Next 100 Years It lays out the drift to war with Mexico that is coming this century over the Southwest. Chapter 13. 2080: The United States, Mexico, and the Struggle for the Global Heartland
p. 223
In the mean jime this is still America. Well it used to be.
In 1846 we left them a little land, We could go back.
That border fence would be a lot cheaper to build on the Guatemalan border.