The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on May 23, 2010, 10:15:23 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100524/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen_radical_cleric
CAIRO – A U.S.-born cleric who has encouraged Muslims to kill American soldiers called for the killing of U.S. civilians in his first video released by a Yemeni offshoot of al-Qaida, providing the most overt link yet between the radical preacher and the terror group.
Dressed in a white Yemeni robe, turban and with a traditional jambiyah dagger tucked into his waistband, Anwar Al-Awlaki used the 45-minute video posted Sunday to justify civilian deaths — and encourage them — by accusing the United States of intentionally killing a million Muslim civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.
American civilians are to blame, he said, because "the American people, in general, are taking part in this and they elected this administration and they are financing the war."
"Those who might be killed in a plane are merely a drop of water in a sea," he said in the video in response to a question about Muslim groups that disapproved of the airliner plot because it targeted civilians.
Al-Awlaki, who was born in New Mexico and is believed to be hiding in his parents' native Yemen, has used his personal website to encourage Muslims around the world to kill U.S. troops in Iraq.
He has emerged as a prominent al-Qaida recruiter and has been tied by U.S. intelligence to the 9/11 hijackers, the suspects in the November shooting at an Army base in Fort Hood, Texas, and the December attempt to blow up a U.S. jetliner bound for Detroit.
For U.S. officials, al-Awlaki is of particular concern because he is one of the few English-speaking radical clerics able to explain to young Muslims in America and other Western countries the philosophy of violent jihad.
Al-Awlaki's direct role in al-Qaida — if any — remains unclear. The U.S. says he is an active participant in the group, though members of his tribe have denied that.
However, Sunday's video provides the clearest link yet between the cleric and the terror group.
It was produced by al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula's media arm, which touted the recording as its first interview with al-Awlaki. It may also indicate al-Qaida is trying to seize upon al-Awlaki's recruiting prowess by featuring him in its videos.
In the months before the Fort Hood shooting, which killed 13 people, al-Awlaki exchanged e-mails with the alleged attacker, U.S. Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. Hasan initiated the contacts, drawn by al-Awlaki's Internet sermons, and approached him for religious advice.
Yemen's government says al-Awlaki is also suspected of contacts with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who traveled to Yemen late last year, and U.S. investigators say Abdulmutallab told them he received training and his bomb from Yemen's al-Qaida offshoot.
In Sunday's video, al-Awlaki praised both men and referred to them as his "students."
Speaking of Hasan, the cleric said, "What he did was heroic and great. ... I ask every Muslim serving in the U.S. Army to follow suit."
Because of what U.S. officials view as al-Awlaki's growing role with al-Qaida, the Obama administration placed him on the CIA's list of targets for assassination — despite his American citizenship.
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Sunday that the U.S. is "actively trying to find" al-Awlaki.
"The president will continue to take action directly at terrorists like Awlaki and keep our country safe from their murderous thugs," Gibbs said on CBS's "Face the Nation."
Ali Mohammed al-Ansi, Yemen's national security chief and head of the president's office, said in remarks published Sunday in Yemen's ruling-party newspaper that the country's security forces will continue to pursue al-Awlaki until he turns himself in or he is arrested.
Yemen has indicated that if its security forces capture al-Awlaki, it wants to try the cleric on Yemeni soil.
Al-Awlaki was born in 1971 in New Mexico. His father, Nasser al-Awlaki, was in the United States studying agriculture at the time and later returned with his family to Yemen to serve as agriculture minister. The father remains a prominent figure in Yemen, teaching at San'a University in the capital.
The younger al-Awlaki returned to the United States in 1991 to study civil engineering at Colorado State University, then education at San Diego State University, followed by doctoral work at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
He was also a preacher at mosques in California and Virginia before returning to Yemen in 2004.
"We have had more freedom in America than in any Muslim country," he said in Sunday's video. "But when America started to feel the danger of Islam's message, it tightened limits on freedom, and after 9/11 it was impossible to live in America as a Muslim."
Al-Awlaki is believed to be hiding in Yemen's Shabwa province, the rugged region of towering mountains that is home to his large tribe. He said he was moving from place to place under the protection of his tribe.
"As for the Americans, I will never surrender to them," al-Awlaki said. "If the Americans want me, let them come look for me. God is the protector."
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You see, this is why I am a realist. A dispute over oil, or navigation rights, or a piece of ground, reasonable men (backed by armies), can negotiate. "With us or against us", "Allahs will", "Terrorists", "Infidels"...that just leads to killing. Idealism leads to body bags. Best to avoid it. The logical extreme is some Ahole born and raised in the US calling for his neighbors to be killed because of what Washingtons policies are. Are ye daft man? When did I sign up for this? I would prefer to fight limited wars over limited ends. Or better yet, no wars at all. However, if you leave me no choice..... :-\
FQ13 who will be happy to to embed " his traditional Yemeni dagger tucked in his waistband", just a liitle South of the the navel and remove it from the sternum. I didn't start this thing, but if you want to go there? As the flag says, don't tread on me.
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The liberals have no stomach to do what needs to be done to keep these sheet heads in line. Nuke two of their countries and tell the rest that if they do not keep the rest of the arse holes in their religion in line we will finish the rest.
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Iran and N Korea. The rest will at least take a while to think it over. ;D
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I was thinking more of Yemen.
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I was thinking more of Yemen.
Not much to target there.
A friend who is a drilling engineer worked in Yemen for several years for one of the Hunt companies. Time and again he was reminded by the mooslims he worked with that though they liked him and thought he was a great guy, when the time came they would kill him because he was an infidel. They tolerated and even enjoyed his presence and the jobs he brought, joked, laughed, enjoyed the gifts he brought back from the U.S., but they all to a man let him know that he would die if he would not convert when their use for him (the West) was over. They only needed the word from their iman and a little leadership.
Some tolerance. Convert or die. So much for live and let live...unless of course you are a means to an end.
On another front Steve watched a suicide attack several years ago, a Yemeni was bound and determined to blow up and kill people at a gas processing plant. They drove to the gate in the front and got stopped at the barriers....now here is the good part...no fence and no gate in the back. Why did they drive to the front...who knows, but it is typical he says of their thought processes. There was a road in the back, no fence, no guards no nothing...they could have driven right up to the main building if they had driven an extra 1/2 mile or so to go around to the back....go figure.
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First of all Rastus, I find "Mooslims" offensive. Let's at least give our enemies the respect that we would have them give to us. There might even be a passage in that Bible you so love to thump. Something in the Book of Matthew about doing unto others.... But hey, I'm just an Episcopalian and I bow to your superior holiness. ::)
Second point, I agree with you. These people are fanatics. Believe their way or die. Wasn't too long ago Christians felt the same way, as the Wars of Religion, hell, the founding of this nation, will attest. There's nothing wrong with the people, its just the crap that's been poured into their heads from the cradle. I find talk of mushroom clouds distasteful for this reason. This doesn't mean I'm not willing to go to war. It does mean that I understand that the black and white world you live in has a whole lot of gray in it. Here's the thing. Kill the terrorists. Good, but that's step one. Step two is convincing others not to follow in their footsteps. That means guys like your friend convincing guys on the ground that their immams are full of sh!t. Religion is worth dying for. Its never worth killing for. I'll die for Christ. I won't kill for Him. Once that simple principle is understood, it should end this nonsense as sure as the Wars of Religion were ended. Doesn't mean there won't be some blood along the way. It just that the basic understanding and acceptance of the fact that who you worship (or don't worship) is your own damn business, is the only way out of this this mess.
Just my .02.
FQ13
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First of all Rastus, I find "Mooslims" offensive. Let's at least give our enemies the respect that we would have them give to us. There might even be a passage in that Bible you so love to thump. Something in the Book of Matthew about doing unto others.... But hey, I'm just an Episcopalian and I bow to your superior holiness. ::)
Second point, I agree with you. These people are fanatics. Believe their way or die. Wasn't too long ago Christians felt the same way, as the Wars of Religion, hell, the founding of this nation, will attest. There's nothing wrong with the people, its just the crap that's been poured into their heads from the cradle. I find talk of mushroom clouds distasteful for this reason. This doesn't mean I'm not willing to go to war. It does mean that I understand that the black and white world you live in has a whole lot of gray in it. Here's the thing. Kill the terrorists. Good, but that's step one. Step two is convincing others not to follow in their footsteps. That means guys like your friend convincing guys on the ground that their immams are full of sh!t. Religion is worth dying for. Its never worth killing for. I'll die for Christ. I won't kill for Him. Once that simple principle is understood, it should end this nonsense as sure as the Wars of Religion were ended. Doesn't mean there won't be some blood along the way. It just that the basic understanding and acceptance of the fact that who you worship (or don't worship) is your own damn business, is the only way out of this this mess.
Just my .02.
FQ13
You're right, FQ, it is offensive. It should have been mooslims, no cap.
They will never give us respect. Earlier you claimed to be a "realist", and then you pull this unrealistic, rainbow-farting unicorn crap? Respect? Please! I respect their desire to kill us for the "sin" of mere existence. You said "but if you want to go there? As the flag says, don't tread on me." They have tread on you, and continue to do so daily. In your words, they are already "there". You just haven't awakened to the fact yet.
If you actually read the Bible instead of throwing some random book-level reference in our faces, we are told to judge righteously. Jesus never had a problem with telling people to their faces they were hypocrites. You forget that when Peter drew his sword and struck off Malchius' ear in the Garden, and was about to do more, Jesus stopped him. Not for the violence, but because it would prevent what had to happen. Then of course there was that whole whipping people in the Temple in Jerusalem thing, more violence in the name of the Lord - righteous violence.
mooslims are killing American citizens now. When do you get off your azz and start to pay attention to the realities of now and stop turning a blind eye to their predations here and around the world? A reformation of the mooslim nuisance will take a long time. How long will you wait until your liberal sensibilities are satisfied and action is warranted?
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A reformation of the mooslim nuisance will take a long time. How long will you wait until your liberal sensibilities are satisfied and action is warranted?
When it comes to civilians and mushroom clouds? Seven times seven Path. That's what distinguishes us from them. Choose your own course.
FQ13 who again prefers realism. I'd rather fight over a patch of ground or an oil field than for the hearts of men. One can be settled rationally, by force or reason, the other......Well, I see it as a fool's game. Your mileage may vary.
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FQ said
First of all Rastus, I find "Mooslims" offensive.
And, Rastus, I have to agree with him. It should be: camel-effing, sheethead, a$$hole mooslems to put a finer point on it. This POS religion of hate wants its membership to behead your mom and you, Quaker. If they are offended by anything I say or do, TS. Quaker, where is your head?
Thoughtfully and caringly presented by Crusader, who could not give less than a rat's fart if some camel-effing, sheethead, a$$hole mooslem who wants to have my head takes offense at my calling him out on it. Sheesh, Quaker. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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FQ said
And, Rastus, I have to agree with him. It should be: camel-effing, sheethead, a$$hole mooslems to put a finer point on it. This POS religion of hate wants its membership to behead your mom and you, Quaker. If they are offended by anything I say or do, TS. Quaker, where is your head?
Thoughtfully and caringly presented by Crusader, who could not give less than a rat's fart if some camel-effing, sheethead, a$$hole mooslem who wants to have my head takes offense at my calling him out on it. Sheesh, Quaker. Wake up and smell the coffee.
If we aren't better than them, why do we fight? If we aren't better, by what right do we take offence? They do to us and we do to them? I'll play that game if its all that's on offer (I do carry a Glock for a reason). Still the "Chicago Way" is hardy inspiring.
FQ13 who belives (with history on his side), that we are better, have done better, and are the richer for having done so, than that. Just my .02
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If we aren't better than them, why do we fight? If we aren't better, by what right do we take offence? They do to us and we do to them? I'll play that game if its all that's on offer (I do carry a Glock for a reason). Still the "Chicago Way" is hardy inspiring.
FQ13 who belives (with history on his side), that we are better, have done better, and are the richer for having done so, than that. Just my .02
The difference, you pointy headed liberal academic asshat wearing mope, is that they do their deeds as a matter of course, part of their 7th Century aggressive lifestyle and so-called religion. If we act like them, it is only because they pushed it to that action, and we walk away and do everything we can not to have to do that again.
My Dad, and his generation, walked away from their lives to fight WWII - and came back home to start over where they left off, if they could. Once my Dad and his crew were done bombing Germany in their B-17, they did not fly it to India and start bombing them just because they existed. That is exactly what the mooslims do. How many people did the mooslims behead before and after Daniel Pearl? Did they stop at just one?
We ended WWII with 2 atomic bombs. We did not then go drop them on Australia just because they existed. See a pattern here?
We can kill - brutally and viciously if we have to, and then walk away and be "normal". The moolims cannot. They will kill just because you exist, they will continue killing until all non-mooslims are dead - or they are. Pick one.
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Pathfinder said:
The difference, you pointy headed liberal academic asshat wearing mope, is that they do their deeds as a matter of course, part of their 7th Century aggressive lifestyle and so-called religion.
Esteemed Dude, FQ doesn't get subtle. You are going to have to speak more plainly if you want to make your point.
Submitted by Crusader as part of his policy of politely supporting right thinking by plain speaking. And Quaker, I don't think you wear an asshat. But, the pointy-headed liberal academic mope part does seem like a pretty good fit.
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Pathfinder said:
Esteemed Dude, FQ doesn't get subtle. You are going to have to speak more plainly if you want to make your point.
Submitted by Crusader as part of his policy of politely supporting right thinking by plain speaking. And Quaker, I don't think you wear an asshat. But, the pointy-headed liberal academic mope part does seem like a pretty good fit.
Crusader (love the irony)
I've pretty much said my peace here. Take it or leave it. The point is, I stand for classical liberal values. Locke, Jefferson, Smith, Mill. That's what I'm about. As for the rest of it, you either stand for something or fall for anything.
FQ13
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When it comes to civilians and mushroom clouds? Seven times seven Path. That's what distinguishes us from them. Choose your own course.
FQ13 who again prefers realism. I'd rather fight over a patch of ground or an oil field than for the hearts of men. One can be settled rationally, by force or reason, the other......Well, I see it as a fool's game. Your mileage may vary.
Adversity builds character.
FQ, how many more decades do you think we should give them before we give up on diplomacy ? It's only been 1400 years soi far, don't want to be hasty.
These f%#king animals will never learn until we kill a few million of them and the cowardly excuses you use only enable them..
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FQ sometimes I really wonder why you carry a gun. I doubt your testicular fortitude to actually use it. You seem far too concerned about the motives of people. Instead of dealing decisively with their actions. I don't care about the little gangbangers family feels when he pulls a knife on me. I don't care that he thinks I cheated to get ahead. All that I care about is my life being threatened, and I'm going to shoot the little bastard before he can hurt me.
It is the same concept. I don't really care why the rags want to kill us. All I care about is that they have, and continue to do so. Specifically targeting CIVILIANS. Our R.O.E. are bullshit, we need to fight a war with the intention of willing. If we have to wipe out an entire culture to protect our right to survive, then so be it.
You really should consider losing the panties, and stop the politically correct crap about things like proportionate response. You can't win in a fair fight. But then again it's been 65 years since this country was in the business of winning wars. Maybe another typo like the stock market. Hey dipstick! It's called kicking ass, not kissing ass.
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. Hey dipstick! It's called kicking ass, not kissing ass.
Agreed
Hwever, there are 1 billion of them and 300 million of us. Do the math. I don't want a thousand year war with Islam. Believe what you want. See if I care. All I DEMAND is that you leave us the f..k alone. In return, I will extend the same courtesy. Otherwise, it comes down to the killing that I would much rather avoid. What's your plan? How do you deter someone who will ue their family as a human sheild or sign up to be a suicide bomber? Genocide of one sixth of the worlds population? Not in my playbook. Even if it was, the Romans demonstrated that trying to wipe out a religion is easier said than done. Again, as a realist, its easier to change behavior than beliefs. Simply apply carrots and sticks. Do you want to be Southern Afghanistan or Dubai? No Panties, just boxers.
FQ13
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Obviously the carrot isn't working, and hasn't in about 15 centuries. The time has come for the stick. Also, you talk about numbers like they mean something. 1 pilot+1 daisy cutter=5000 mooslims in line for their virgins. Kinda evens things up doesn't it? Besides if they get REALLY upity we just quietly give Isreal the go ahead. Turn that dog loose, and it's problem solved, and as an added bonus, Isreal becomes the new world leader in glass exports.
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FQ, before true communication can exist, there must be a common language. These camel-effing, sheethead, a$$hole mooslems (to quote CR) have made it abundantly clear that the only language they understand is violence, and graphic violence, to boot. Sadly, since that is the only language they understand, that is the language we must use in dealing with them. It's a matter of self-defense, do unto them before they get the opportunity to do unto you.
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If we aren't better than them, why do we fight? If we aren't better, by what right do we take offence? They do to us and we do to them? I'll play that game if its all that's on offer (I do carry a Glock for a reason). Still the "Chicago Way" is hardy inspiring.
FQ13 who belives (with history on his side), that we are better, have done better, and are the richer for having done so, than that. Just my .02
Because they frequently announce that they will KILL us anyway dumbass. That must be the problem with college they teach until your brain falls out on the floor.
Remember how well you reasoned with that guy in your driveway
The "Chicago way" ( Side bar for the old farts
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is the only way that EVER works, whether on a playground or in any other type of jungle.
TB who thinks that even though FQ seems decent enough, He should grab his hockey helmet before the little bus leaves without him.
And yes FQ, it is that plain to everyone not cursed with 30 years of socialist indoctrination .
The only way to establish EFFECTIVE communication with the Muslim world is to either Nuke Medina and tell them Mecca is next, OR,
Start at the Israeli border and move out ward, killing every living thing and keep going until you reach water or India.
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It should be: camel-effing, sheethead, a$$hole mooslems to put a finer point on it. This POS religion of hate wants its membership to behead your mom and you, Quaker. If they are offended by anything I say or do, TS. Quaker, where is your head?
Thoughtfully and caringly presented by Crusader, who could not give less than a rat's fart if some camel-effing, sheethead, a$$hole mooslem who wants to have my head takes offense at my calling him out on it. Sheesh, Quaker. Wake up and smell the coffee.
(http://gallery.mac.com/philw/100192/iagree/web.gif?ver=12747846060001)
Could not of said it better ;D
you did forget goat molesting, sand jockeys as well
last sunday night they interviewed a Cleric here. this is an extract from it
video @ link as well
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1055289
LIZ HAYES: What would happen to a woman under sharia law if she had an affair outside her marriage?
ANJEM CHOUDARY: If a man or a woman had an affair outside of their marriage and there were sufficient witnesses for either or both of them they would be stoned to death.
LIZ HAYES: Do you believe you're a superior being?
ANJEM CHOUDARY: A Muslim will always be superior to a non-Muslim, absolutely.
LIZ HAYES: You are a better person than me?
ANJEM CHOUDARY: In terms of...in the eyes of God, that would certainly be the case, yes. My dear Muslims, we live in the time of fitna...
LIZ HAYES: At 43, Anjem Choudary spends much of his time conducting his version of a sharia court and preaching to young Muslim men his views on anything from women to Americans and their pets.
ANJEM CHOUDARY: You can see, my dear Muslims, that in America, in at least 28 states, you can even get married to an animal. Bestiality is halal as long as you have relationship in your own home. This is the downfall of Western civilisation.
LIZ HAYES: You told a recent court that in 28 states in America you can get married to an animal.
ANJEM CHOUDARY: Bestiality. I mean, I did my research - that is true.
LIZ HAYES: That is an absolute lie.
ANJEM CHOUDARY: Find out, research it yourself.
LIZ HAYES: You cannot marry an animal.
ANJEM CHOUDARY: You can. It's true, it's true. Bestiality is completely legal in America.
LIZ HAYES: You are shameful. That is a lie.
ANJEM CHOUDARY: It's true. That is true. Do your research. You will see. That is the fruit of Western civilisation.
LIZ HAYES: You tell young, impressionable people lies.
ANJEM CHOUDARY: No, the reality is very difficult to swallow sometimes. In Britain, for example...
LIZ HAYES: No, it's hard for you to swallow.
I know it is Man's Best Friend however.... I am not that close to Animals...
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First there is a personal attack on me by one of our residents. As per the usual MO, there is no "venerable" discussion of ideas, just an immediate attempt to ridicule and belittle a person and thereby discredit them quenching discussion and stifling free speech. Tom, Haz, Geoff, Benny, and other of us disagree among ourselves in an open forum, but one particular person discredits the ideas by discrediting the person .
Next we see the assumption that if you treat people with respect and train them they will "see the light". A utopian fantasy that liberals cling to. It is part of the basis of their belief system and has been repeatedly shown as a false brick in their foundation. There are certain and insignificant instances that can be pointed to as making a change....but mass education and changes continue to be an elusive fantasy. Much like many spouses who marry believing they can change their spouse to the better. In the particular instance my friend did befriend them, bring them gifts, speak of secular wisdom and working together for years and at the end the answer was the same, "We hate to do it but we will kill you when the time comes if you do not convert to islam." Believing we will change a society with education, reason and kindness is a fantasy best left in fairy tales.
A statement was made that the founding of this nation was based upon premeditated slaughter of people. I think Plymouth Rock must itself feel the shame for someone in this nation to believe that. It was the persecution of the Christian that caused these people to come here for a new start. There were inevitable thieves and murders that came in, but the founding, the creation the uplifting shining moment of national identity and being was not based upon the slaughter of a people like islam. How foolish a statement.
The last and most offensive statement that ties with the response was that this person is a true representative of Christendom. Pretty simple, if a person has a belief and calls himself by the name he should believe what Christ himself says one must be to be one of His. Many posts exists from this person where those things that Christ said is essential in a believer, that Christ said one must follow in a certain way to be a Christian, that person refutes those things and calls himself by that namesake and it is robbery.
It is not a matter of interpretation when one does not even discuss the words but ridicules the bearer of those words. The "almighty interpretation" is a dodge from the actual reading and discussion. It is robbery to call oneself a Christian and flatly refute the words and way of Christ.
It would be good to know how much time and effort such a person has put forth to help others in lieu of themselves. I'm not talking about job duties and a paycheck...how childish. I'm talking about really giving of one's time to help people they don't really know as well as those, like family and friends, they do know. Do people like this take from their off time to cut a neighbors lawn when they are having surgery? Do people like this take time to clear fallen timber for their neighbor with a suddenly bad back? How often are people moved to help that frightened family on the road who huddled about are counting the money they have in their hands at some truckstop hoping to buy enough gas to get home instead of getting that bag of chips and soda pop? Does such a person offer to help anyone other than themselves with their free time when someone they know is in need...and mean it? Do their hands get dirty, do they ache from work, do they call to comfort or do they just tell everyone how they should live and how bad their situation is and how bad they "feel" for them? Maybe such a person will give away their old vehicle to a family that needs it when they buy a new vehicle, shouldering the extra cost on the monthly note without a thought because it was the right thing to help a family in need. Maybe such a person will do that every time they buy a car? Does such a person notice the poor family in church who is struggling and quietly and out-of-sight provide food and clothing to help and encourage new Christians in need? When was the last time such a person reached out to a total stranger in need because it was the right thing to do? Did that neighbor down the street or casual acquaintance receive a call of encouragement in dark times accompanied by offers and action to help out...did they even just get words of symnpathy from such a person...did that kind of person even notice? When was the last time such a person saw an unknown hungry family in Wal Mart with very little in their cart and give them something they had paid for from their cart and see the sparkle in a hungry child's eyes.
Words mean nothing without a foundation of action. Is there a foundation?
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+1 googolplex Ken.
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Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book:
Slavery, Terrorism and Islam:
The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.
Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a
complete, total, 100% system of life.
Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military
components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other
components.
Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to
agitate for their religious privileges.
When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies
agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the
other components tend to creep in as well.
Here's how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given
country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving
minority, and not as a threat to other citizens.
This is the case in:
United States-Muslim 0.6%
Australia - - - Muslim 1.5%
Canada - - - - Muslim 1.9%
China - - - - - Muslim 1.8%
Italy - - - - - - Muslim 1.5%
Norway - - - - Muslim 1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and
disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among
street gangs.
This is happening in:
Denmark - - - - - - Muslim 2%
Germany - - - - - - Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom- Muslim 2.7%
Spain - - - - - - - - -Muslim 4%
Thailand - - - - - - Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their
percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the
introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby
securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure
on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves along with
threats for failure to comply.
This is occurring in:
France - - - - - - - - - Muslim 8%
Philippines - - - - - - Muslim 5%
Sweden- - - - - - - - - Muslim 5%
Switzerland- - - - - - - - - Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands - - Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago-Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them
to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law.
The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the
entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase
lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris ,
we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam
and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with
opposition to
Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily,
particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana-Muslim 10%
India- - -Muslim 13.4%
Israel - - Muslim 16%
Kenya - -Muslim 10%
Russia- - Muslim 15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad
militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian
churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks,
and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia - -Muslim 40%
Chad - - -Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon-Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of
all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic
cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax
placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania- -Muslim 70%
Malaysia-Muslim 60.4%
Qatar- - - Muslim 77..5%
Sudan- - -Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run
ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the
infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and
in
some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh-Muslim 83%
Egypt- - - - -Muslim 90%
Gaza-- - - - -Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia- - Muslim 86.1%
Iran - - - - - - - -Muslim 98%
Iraq- - - - - - Muslim 97%
Jordan- - - - Muslim 92%
Morocco- - -Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan- - - Muslim 97%
Palestine- - - Muslim 99%
Syria- - - - - -Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey- - - - Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates-Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of
Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a
Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only
word, such as in:
Afghanistan- -Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia- Muslim 100%
Somalia- - - - -Muslim 100%
Yemen- - - - - -Muslim 100%
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most
radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust
by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me
against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family
against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe
against the world, and all of us against the infidel. --
Leon Uris, 'The Haj'
It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under
100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations
live in
ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live
by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos.
There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious
facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the
community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the
Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with
death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and
extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.
Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But
their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus,
Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the
world's
population by the end of this century.
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book:
Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The
Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.
Today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse. The wolves will be
herding the sheep!
Obama appoints two devout Muslims to Homeland Security posts. Doesn't
this make you feel safer already?
Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as
Assistant Secretary for Policy Development.
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim
who was born in Damascus, Syria, as ADC National Executive Director as a
member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).
NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified
as a devout Catholic, a devout Jew or a devout Protestant....? Just
wondering.
Was it not "Devout Muslim men" who flew planes into U.S. buildings 8
years ago?
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First there is a personal attack on me by one of our residents. As per the usual MO, there is no "venerable" discussion of ideas, just an immediate attempt to ridicule and belittle a person and thereby discredit them quenching discussion and stifling free speech. Tom, Haz, Geoff, Benny, and other of us disagree among ourselves in an open forum, but one particular person discredits the ideas by discrediting the person .
Next we see the assumption that if you treat people with respect and train them they will "see the light". A utopian fantasy that liberals cling to. It is part of the basis of their belief system and has been repeatedly shown as a false brick in their foundation. There are certain and insignificant instances that can be pointed to as making a change....but mass education and changes continue to be an elusive fantasy. Much like many spouses who marry believing they can change their spouse to the better. In the particular instance my friend did befriend them, bring them gifts, speak of secular wisdom and working together for years and at the end the answer was the same, "We hate to do it but we will kill you when the time comes if you do not convert to islam." Believing we will change a society with education, reason and kindness is a fantasy best left in fairy tales.
A statement was made that the founding of this nation was based upon premeditated slaughter of people. I think Plymouth Rock must itself feel the shame for someone in this nation to believe that. It was the persecution of the Christian that caused these people to come here for a new start. There were inevitable thieves and murders that came in, but the founding, the creation the uplifting shining moment of national identity and being was not based upon the slaughter of a people like islam. How foolish a statement.
The last and most offensive statement that ties with the response was that this person is a true representative of Christendom. Pretty simple, if a person has a belief and calls himself by the name he should believe what Christ himself says one must be to be one of His. Many posts exists from this person where those things that Christ said is essential in a believer, that Christ said one must follow in a certain way to be a Christian, that person refutes those things and calls himself by that namesake and it is robbery.
It is not a matter of interpretation when one does not even discuss the words but ridicules the bearer of those words. The "almighty interpretation" is a dodge from the actual reading and discussion. It is robbery to call oneself a Christian and flatly refute the words and way of Christ.
It would be good to know how much time and effort such a person has put forth to help others in lieu of themselves. I'm not talking about job duties and a paycheck...how childish. I'm talking about really giving of one's time to help people they don't really know as well as those, like family and friends, they do know. Do people like this take from their off time to cut a neighbors lawn when they are having surgery? Do people like this take time to clear fallen timber for their neighbor with a suddenly bad back? How often are people moved to help that frightened family on the road who huddled about are counting the money they have in their hands at some truckstop hoping to buy enough gas to get home instead of getting that bag of chips and soda pop? Does such a person offer to help anyone other than themselves with their free time when someone they know is in need...and mean it? Do their hands get dirty, do they ache from work, do they call to comfort or do they just tell everyone how they should live and how bad their situation is and how bad they "feel" for them? Maybe such a person will give away their old vehicle to a family that needs it when they buy a new vehicle, shouldering the extra cost on the monthly note without a thought because it was the right thing to help a family in need. Maybe such a person will do that every time they buy a car? Does such a person notice the poor family in church who is struggling and quietly and out-of-sight provide food and clothing to help and encourage new Christians in need? When was the last time such a person reached out to a total stranger in need because it was the right thing to do? Did that neighbor down the street or casual acquaintance receive a call of encouragement in dark times accompanied by offers and action to help out...did they even just get words of symnpathy from such a person...did that kind of person even notice? When was the last time such a person saw an unknown hungry family in Wal Mart with very little in their cart and give them something they had paid for from their cart and see the sparkle in a hungry child's eyes.
Words mean nothing without a foundation of action. Is there a foundation?
Rastus, that's pretty hypocritical, do I have to go back and post links to all the rude stuff you have posted to FQ ?
If you can't take the heat don't hide behind this kind of BS.
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Rastus, that's pretty hypocritical, do I have to go back and post links to all the rude stuff you have posted to FQ ?
If you can't take the heat don't hide behind this kind of BS.
Go get some and let's talk about it.
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Tom don't worry about it. Its not worth the board's time. Rastus and I disagree theologically and politically and we frustrate each other. Words sometimes get said that shouldn't. I went a bit far with the "Bible thumping" bit. Rastus has gone over the edge before as well. I will hence forth adopt the Eric rule with Rastus. Nothing negative will be said if I can't say it with a smile. Rastus I hope you will agre.
Peace
FQ13
PS I never said the US was designed to bring about religious slaughter. Just remarking that Christians used to be pretty good at that ourselves. Hence the fleeing from perseution at the hands of fellow Christians.
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I will hence forth adopt the Erc rule with Rastus.
Rastus, I hope you take that as a compliment as much as I do.
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Just a little break from the festivities.
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NO FQ I will not let it slide, Rastus's crap has already cost this forum 1 good member in Desert Marine .
Any one who thinks they have all the only right answers to everything is a damned fool .
He is an even bigger damn fool if he makes these claims from amid a group that can't agree on 1911 or Glock.
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NO FQ I will not let it slide, Rastus's crap has already cost this forum 1 good member in Desert Marine .
Any one who thinks they have all the only right answers to everything is a damned fool .
He is an even bigger damn fool if he makes these claims from amid a group that can't agree on 1911 or Glock.
Go get some and let's talk about it. Nothing has changed.
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I have limited time during the week, but here are a couple that I found real quick.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=12532.msg162832#msg162832
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=169;sa=showPosts;start=80
I don't have time to search any more as I have to take a dump and get ready for work, but the 2 I linked shows that your idea of religious tolerance is "Good for me but not for thee.
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Tom, you're going to need to do a lot better than that. The first post hardly shows Rastus to be of the mindset you claim. The second is a series of his posts, none of which address your point.
BTW, do you have personal communications from Desert Marine that is was specific to Rastus' comments that he left?
On second thought, let it go. This thread has gotten way too personal, way beyond what is called for. I think in the interest of calmness, camaraderie, or just plain manners, let it go. Disagree to disagree if you will. Back to the thread topic, OK?
The ad hominem attacks need to stop on this thread. If it continues the way it's been going, I will personally ask M'ette to lock the thread.
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Crap, I posted the wrong link.
Pathfinder, You can request anything your heart desires, these posts are directed at you as well.
I have not posted anything inaccurate OR OFFENSIVE to a clear conscience, I will not bother going to the abortion threads at this time to post links to some of the "religious tolerance" I've listened to here.
In short, some of us respect other peoples beliefs but are heartily sick of hearing about them.
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Tom, it's not often that I disagree with you, but in this case, I think you have crossed a line. One of the principle causes that we fight for, both in our daily lives, and here on this forum, is the freedom to say and believe what we wish. What you are doing is trying to stifle opinions with which you don't agree. While I may not agree with them we have to allow it. Remember the first amendment protects the speech that we DON'T agree with.
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Regardless of the "in-fighting" never forget WHO were the targets of
there is more we agree on than disagree, the hill to choose to die on is not this one.
We have a common threat and enemy. That would indiscriminately slaughter all of our children, parents, siblings, and spouses.
That is the true enemy. The demographics philw posted are correct, and my son, and his children will be facing the "stats" about the expansion of not just Muslims, but illegal immigrants as well.
Just my humble perspective, and one who is still stocking up on ammo.
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Tom, it's not often that I disagree with you, but in this case, I think you have crossed a line. One of the principle causes that we fight for, both in our daily lives, and here on this forum, is the freedom to say and believe what we wish. What you are doing is trying to stifle opinions with which you don't agree. While I may not agree with them we have to allow it. Remember the first amendment protects the speech that we DON'T agree with.
BS. I am simply pointing out that on a gun and politics forum I for one am sick of hearing these bible thumpers.( As opposed to those who simply worship as they see fit and allow others to do the same )
The part about "allowing others to do the same" is where these 2 fall short. There are many on here who have a very deep and sincere Faith, but they don't find it necessary to flaunt it in nearly every subject.
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BS. I am simply pointing out that on a gun and politics forum I for one am sick of hearing these bible thumpers.( As opposed to those who simply worship as they see fit and allow others to do the same )
The part about "allowing others to do the same" is where these 2 fall short. There are many on here who have a very deep and sincere Faith, but they don't find it necessary to flaunt it in nearly every subject.
I really would like to talk to you about this and discuss the things which you reference. Cite them in context and we can discuss them.
My unspoken request (perhaps the thing I do which annoys you) is that if one quotes the Bible (or some other document) when we disagree don't play it by memory. You'll see many quotes I've made to make my point presented in the context I believe. You can take it or leave it, but people should not say that such items do not exist and make a foundation on not knowing the document they claim to know. Again, much of what people disagree about in the Bible (or Constitution, you're good with that one) which is allayed to interpretation is not interpretation but feeling. Someone feels a particular way or sincerely believes a particular thing which is just not there. Just acknowledge what's written and we can stop and continue to disagree on interpretation. We can both agree that sincerity in a belief does not mean that belief has a foundation in fact supported by actual writing.
People can have a deep and sincere faith that the Bible says anyone that believes in any god or does good things and is not a rapist-murder makes them a Christian, but that does not mean it is in the Bible and is true. I am offended whenever someone claims to know something that is not there...not an interpretation...and passes themselves off as a type of person they directly contradict and then refuses to acknowledge they are at total odds with wrtings. Sort of like someone passing themselves of as an American when they support communism or a "living" Constitution, or "from each according to his ability and to each according to his need".
If you don't want to hear "Bible thumping", then fine block me out. Don't expect me to do any less than you would do when you see someone claiming to know the Constitution who is not even acknowledging the document as it was written and that it is a living document with any part up for contemporary interpretation.
You backed me up with Desert Marine and so did a lot of people. Why are you angry at me about Desert Marine if you backed me up? Do I need to look up that quote?
I don't want to be at odds with you and I won't if you'll let me. If you want me to call and talk about it I'll call you. What is it I have specifically done to you that has offended you and how can I fix it? If you want me to leave you alone and never reference you here on the board or quote you...I'll do what you ask. I am not picking, nor do I want to get into some flaming fight with you. I've spoken my peace and it is finished at this point.
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I have no real beef, I'm just sick of hearing you and Pathfinder using your particular version of Christianity as an argument in nearly every thread lately.
You are basing these arguments on a book written by men, and in the case of the KJV PAID for by men, based on documents held by an Organization of questionable integrity for several hundred years.
If you went to court with that "Chain of evidence" you would be laughed out of town.
And the fact that you can quote the Bible is meaningless as well, I can to, Chapter and verse, and I haven't been in a church in 40 years.
The attitude shown by you 2 is exactly why the "new age" religions, (Which mostly have their roots far earlier than Christianity) are doing so well at the expense of Christian Sects.
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Well~~ :)
Haven't we got ourselves in a few pots of boiling water.. ;D
I've been gone ( I guess for too long) and several have ask that I "just peek in " and see whats going on in here with this thread..
**Taking a deep slow breath**.
Lets see... I try really hard to stay out of any type of "Christina religious" talk...as personally I think it is..well... personal. And I tend to go overboard and get too heated up when it never accomplishes anything in the long run but hurtfulness. ..
and it always seems that everyone can argue and cuss and holler about the difference in clips and magazines.. 1911's and Glocks... difference in ammo etc.. and even some's more liberal vs conservative views on issues. and everyone is ok with that..
But just as soon as it touches on Religion (aka Bible Christianity etc).. the intolerance hackles start standing up. ( I have to be honest and tell you that mine do too)
But I just mentally at that time remove myself from the thread. Trust me.. I could jump in with both feet and write pages on rebuttals and my views etc.. but for what? Am I going to change anyone's religious views? And do I care? No and No. I know the people in here who share my views.. and I know the people who do not. I don't like or dislike them any more or any less on either end of the coin.
I guess my point is.. ( I've sat here 5 minutes and well.....I don't know what my point is I guess)
I don't have the answers but bear with me here please and you don't have to agree with me but just hear me out.
We all use "tools" that help us cope and deal with life's issues. Rastus and Pathfinder and many others use and look towards the Book of the Bible to help them with their daily issues and their personal journey while they are here on Earth.
Others use other "tools" and guidance.
What works for one doesn't work for another. And in fact might actually have a negative effect.
I think everyone in here has every right to say what they want to ( IF they want to) but do not expect others to agree and think that what you write and believe will help them as it helps you.
I refuse to get in a bible debate with anyone.. unless the thread is specifically about that subject.. and also... I can argue facts all day long about it.. but ..again.................
. in the long run.. will I have really changed anyone's mind and does it really matter?... when their path and life chart is their own and mine is my own?
Politics is politics.... and religion is religion..
Lets all try to not sling out the names and adjectives to those who we vehemently disagree with. Disagree yes.. passionately yes.. but lets try to leave the name calling alone..It doesn't accomplish anything.
Pleaseeeee?? :)
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I will add here that the main reason I quit reading "The Witches Voice" http://www.witchvox.com/ was because of the Christian bashing.
Of all the religions in the world the only one I don't respect is Islam, If I want someone to preach to me I will join one of them. (or just get married again ;D )
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M'lette, you needn't worry. I apologized to Rastus on the board and sent Path a PM. Thing is, sometimes fights within the family, either Christianity for the three of us, or 2A supporters for the rest of the board, are the bloodiest. As TW reminded us, they are silly as the real enemies are elsewhere.
Peace
Quaker
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And I'll offer a hearty AMEN to Quaker's previous post. It's probably no big secret that he and I disagree on many if not most topics. But, anytime either one of us has said something negative about or to the other, it has been offered with good humor and, I think, accepted with a certain grace. To tell you the truth, I'd enjoy sitting down with him over a beer or 5 and discussing the general cussedness of life. Yes, he's a flaming liberal. Yes, he can't spell. But, he IS thoughtful and offers insights filtered through his many years in academia. That's a perspective worth hearing (even if it's wrong-headed--Sorry, FQ, I had to get one dig in here). When it comes to Rastus and some of the others, they (in my opinion) offer their heartfelt beliefs on the variety of subjects we touch on here. And, most of the time, they present a lot more to agree with than not. They may have their biases (we all do) but they are truth-talkers presenting the truth as they see it. We may see it differently--that's expected. But, we can all agree to be reasonably polite when we disagree. Can't we?
Presented for thoughtful consideration by Crusader (who secretly really enjoys some of the drama, and snickers out loud when it gets all flame-y). ;D ;) ;D ;)
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If we wanted good manners , I'm sure Emily Post has a web site ;D
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Guys you have to remember there is always one person in a family that stirs crap. Just to see what happens.
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Personally? I love a good bar fight.. usually have to get in the middle of it..
Its best though ..as you say...after the fight.. wipe the blood off your chins and nose and have a beer and call a truse ( until of course the next time).. LOL
If that can be done.. I'm good with whatever you all do... you know that! ;)
((Except.. leaving sardines and smoked oyster cans in the corner.. THAT will piss me off.. ) ;D
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WHO ATE MY SMOKED OYSTERS !
>:(
I pity the fool !
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WHO ATE MY SMOKED OYSTERS !
>:(
I pity the fool !
Sorry about the oysters, Tom. (burrrrp) Didn't know they were yours... (burrrp) And I think they may have turned... (buuuurrrrpppp)
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WHO ATE MY SMOKED OYSTERS !
>:(
I used it for what God intended.....
Bait, to catch real food!
;)
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Sorry about the oysters, Tom. (burrrrp) Didn't know they were yours... (burrrp) And I think they may have turned... (buuuurrrrpppp)
That's OK then ;D
I used it for what God intended.....
Bait, to catch real food!
;)
Heretic ! Infidel ! Generally bad person ! :o
These weren't those raw ones that look like a booger with Tabasco sauce, (waste of hot sauce if you ask me. )
Got to have a good Sharp smoked cheddar ::) to go with them