The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on May 28, 2010, 10:30:49 AM
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Sometimes I wonder why I live here. This is an only in Florida (sadly not) story. Its about what happens when Christianity's version of the Taliban gets into bed with the wing nut wing of the tea party (for those who asked why I don't join here is your answer), and then think that a public school is an annex of their whacked out Church and spraying "Holy Perfume" on the Godless is a good idea. Remember, Jesus loves me, but He can't stand you! ;D
FQ13 who will include an additional Smiley for Rastus ;)
From The Palm Beach Post today: (and folks this is well woth a read, hell, I'd have payed good money to see this if I were in High School) ;D
By Frank Cerabino
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Imagine this. You're a teacher leading a discussion about the earthquake in Haiti in front of a class of high school students in South Florida.
And your students start channeling televangelist Pat Robertson, saying that the earthquake is explainable by a pact the Haitian people made with the devil, a pact that freed them of French occupiers, but cursed the nation ever since.
How do you respond?
This is not a hypothetical case. It happened in a class at Blanche Ely High School in Pompano Beach, and the teacher, Schandra Rodriguez, told the students that the devil-caused-the-earthquake explanation was a bunch of fairy-tale nonsense.
And during the following discussion, two of Rodriguez' fellow reading teachers, Leslie Rainer and Djuna Robinson, joined the debate - not only to support the devil theory, but to allegedly spray holy water on the atheistic Schandra for spreading her nonreligious views in the classroom.
An outspoken pastor to the rescue
Yes, you have the makings of a moist religious soap opera here, especially after Rodriguez filed a bullying complaint against the other two teachers, and they ran for help to their outspoken pastor, who orchestrated a holy posse of support and legal representation.
Throw in the head of the local tea party group offering to support the alleged holy-water spritzers, and you can almost see the fully-blown Glenn Beck special report galloping in from the horizon.
"This teacher didn't believe in God and these kids were trying to convince the teacher that there was a God," the Rev. O'Neal Dozier, head of the Worldwide Christian Center, told me.
Dozier's no stranger to controversy. The pastor, a Jeb Bush-appointee on a panel that nominates judges, was pressured to step down after calling Islam "a cult." He has also called homosexuality "something so nasty and disgusting that it makes God want to vomit." And in his other personal messages from God, he once explained that Jesus came to him in a dream to say that Charlie Crist would be governor.
"So do you think Haiti's earthquake was because of a pact with the devil?" I asked Dozier.
"Yes, I share that view," he said. "I know they made a pact with the devil to attain their freedom. It's a factual statement. That could be why they're having this trouble."
The tempest and the tea party
The two teachers, Rainer and Robinson, have been removed from classroom duties while the school district investigates the holy-water allegation. The women, who appeared at Dozier's church with their lawyer this week, claim that it was just perfume, and not a drop of it landed on the atheist.
"There's no criminal matter here," Dozier said. "The only other basis for the actions taken against these women is that they are being punished for speaking about their Christian religion. If this matter continues, this controversy will find itself in the federal courts on the grounds that it's a violation of these ladies' constitutional rights."
Danita Kilcullen, a member of Dozier's church and the founder of Tea Party Fort Lauderdale, told the reassigned teachers that she and her group were paying attention.
"We have a First Amendment right of free speech," Kilcullen told me, "but there is no right for an atheist to preach to our kids. In my opinion, teaching kids without God is a dangerous direction."
~frank_cerabino@pbpost.com
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It is so easy to judge others especially from afar.
FQ, do you mean that, if there were not people like these as participants of the various tea party groups, you would be a member of a tea party?
Since when has any group had all of its individual members above reproach? We are all human. Therefore any group having people as members will be full of people with foibles and personality flaws. However, a group having flaws does not mean the mission and goals of the group as a whole are failed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see the so called “tea party” as a nationally organized group. Rather, I see the tea party as a loose conglomeration of hundreds (if not thousands) of small groups made up of like-mined individuals who don’t agree with what is currently happening in their local, State and federal government. They don’t like the current direction of government and they want to make their voices heard. Many have never been politically active.
I see people trying to organize and lead these groups but I don’t consider them organized nor structured as of yet. I think the “left” and the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party try to get us believe the “tea party” is the “Tea Party.” That way it is easier to attack and discredit.
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You are reading WAY too much into my post watchman. The post was simply a stab at the wing nut wing of the religious right with whom I disagree on theogical and political grounds. Plus, it points out the weirdness that passes for politics here in the Iguana lattitudes.
As far as the Tea Party, (or tea parties).... Well, I always think its a good thing when the peasants pick up their pitch forks and scare the crap out of the ruling class. Doesn't mean I endorse the cause of the revolt, just that I think being well aware that revolution is on the table is a lesson every politician should learn. Its good for them. As to me joining, my problem with my local branch of what you accurately describe as a very diverse and deliberately leaderless movement (and kudos for that, because its a smart move) is that they are social conservatives. I am not. Never have been, never will be and never pretended to be. So its on this "no right of an atheist to teach" point that I very clearly part company. Other Tea Parties may differ, and perhaps I might join. As to my local one? I will be open carrying in my Starbucks drinking coffee, thank you very much.
FQ13
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As long as they are teaching accurately, not "revising" history to advance a socialist political agenda, I do not care if they worship green M&M's.
I would go on here about sticking to verifiable facts , say, the presence of a fault under the Island .
However, this is Haiti we are talking about, the "curse" story might be true.
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It was actually disease that drove out the French coupled with their preoccupation with the Napoleonic wars.
I suspect the reality is that Haiti is simply a sh!thole.
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It was actually disease that drove out the French coupled with their preoccupation with the Napoleonic wars.
I suspect the reality is that Haiti is simply a sh!thole.
Tom, I somehow screwed up in my post. It got cut. Here is what I meant to post.
The question is though, who did we sell our souls to to defeat the British? At least they were scary back in the day.Making a pact with Satan to defeat the French? Hell, the Mexicans managed that. If Toussaint L'ouverture felt he needed to deal with Old Scratch to beat the French, he was selling himself short. On a patriotic note for Veterans Day, I will add this. Napolean sent an army to retake Haiti. They died of incompetance and yellow fever. It convinced him that France should focus on Europe, not the New World. Its why he sold the Louisiana territory to us. Are we in league with Satan too? I get tired of these right wing Bible thumpers. "God told me Charlie Crist was going to be governor" quoth Reverend Dozier? What did he say about the Senate race, and why do I think you're backing GOP candidate Rubio? Give me a break. Honestly, is it just that you don't think a bunch of black folks can beat the French without demonic intervention (though everyone else and their dog has)? Robertson said Sharon was struck down by God at age 70 for giving up Gaza. No word yet on why Falwell was "struck down" at the same age. Biblically proof texting one's political views is cheap and sad. If you've got a point make it. Just leave Jesus out of it as I'm sure he's busy. ;)
FQ13
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It DOES kind of contradict that whole "Free Will" thing.
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"We have a First Amendment right of free speech," Kilcullen told me, "but there is no right for an atheist to preach to our kids. In my opinion, teaching kids without God is a dangerous direction."
[/quote]
I'm just amazed that no one has commented on this statement. This is so indicative of the left leaning sheeple 'That you rights end as soon as you disagreeing with us.........................' I'm sitting here on my couch yelling "OMG!!!" and my wife is just staring at me LOL. :o :o :o
Brian
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"We have a First Amendment right of free speech," Kilcullen told me, "but there is no right for an atheist to preach to our kids. In my opinion, teaching kids without God is a dangerous direction."
I'm just amazed that no one has commented on this statement. This is so indicative of the left leaning sheeple 'That you rights end as soon as you disagreeing with us.........................' I'm sitting here on my couch yelling "OMG!!!" and my wife is just staring at me LOL. :o :o :o
Brian
I was just about to... That kills me, there is no right for an atheist to preach to our kids? I'm the son of a preacher myself, raised in a Christian home all my life and this floors me that anyone could put this statement out without rebuttal. I don't think either side should be allowed to teach their "religion" in a public school be it Christian, Islam, or Atheist. It's the same reason I think evolution and global warming should not be taught as fact. Religion should not be "taught", however I think there is nothing wrong for a teacher, in context of the situation to point out their beliefs. But for a Christian or an Atheist to "preach" to their students, as it seems occurred here to some extent is wrong.
Evolution and global warming are preached everyday in practically every school in the country, yet these are still theories, not facts. Yet they are taught as such. And Haiti may have made a pact with the devil and heck it may be why the French left. Who knows! But this is not a topic for school teachers to discuss in class as fact. These two teachers where in the wrong for turning this into a circus regardless of what they did. And this "Atheist" teacher should have said, "that's one theory" and moved on. I'm sure if the subject had been intelligent design that's exactly what she would have done.
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Some might be interested in the site below. As long as a non literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis is acceptable, it provides some insight.
The Catholic Church has loosened requiring a literal interruption...
Catholic concern about evolution has always been very largely concerned with the implications of evolutionary theory for the origin of the human species; even by 1859, the Church did not insist on a literal reading of the Book of Genesis, which had long been undermined by developments in geology and other fields.
You might want to review this site.
http://www.articlealley.com/article_85188_51.html
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I've amused myself with smart azzed comment's, now I will state my opinion.
I think the school day should start with a moment of silence , right after the Pledge of Allegiance. Specific faiths have no place in non sectarian schools, however faith should be a part of our lives no matter where we are.
I have to disagree with G4L's examples, Global warming is not a "theory", it is a load of crap. It is a scam that becomes more discredited as time goes on.
Evolution may still be a theory, but it is one with an awful lot of evidence to back it up, including being repeated in a lab. (evolutionary change between generations, not Apes to people ).
It's widely accepted that the Creator granted us free will, why, if not to pursue our curiosity about "How does that work/ why did this happen ?
Evolution theory does not contradict Creation theory. Create is the act, Evolve is simply how it was performed, the fact that cars and guns change every year (evolve) has no impact on how or why the were originally created .
I had to look this up but it fits,
John 1:1 (King James Version)
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
If we take "the Word" as representing the formulation of a coherent Idea it is another way of saying what my Dad used to tell me about building, once he had it visualized in his mind the creating was done, the rest of it was just rearranging lumber piles.
Just my thoughts, it's what can happen if you work alone to long. ;D
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I've amused myself with smart azzed comment's, now I will state my opinion.
I think the school day should start with a moment of silence , right after the Pledge of Allegiance. Specific faiths have no place in non sectarian schools, however faith should be a part of our lives no matter where we are.
I have to disagree with G4L's examples, Global warming is not a "theory", it is a load of crap. It is a scam that becomes more discredited as time goes on.
Evolution may still be a theory, but it is one with an awful lot of evidence to back it up, including being repeated in a lab. (evolutionary change between generations, not Apes to people ).
It's widely accepted that the Creator granted us free will, why, if not to pursue our curiosity about "How does that work/ why did this happen ?
Evolution theory does not contradict Creation theory. Create is the act, Evolve is simply how it was performed, the fact that cars and guns change every year (evolve) has no impact on how or why the were originally created .
I had to look this up but it fits,
John 1:1 (King James Version)
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
If we take "the Word" as representing the formulation of a coherent Idea it is another way of saying what my Dad used to tell me about building, once he had it visualized in his mind the creating was done, the rest of it was just rearranging lumber piles.
Just my thoughts, it's what can happen if you work alone to long. ;D
Tom, You'd be amazed that I agree with you 100%. I was rushed a bit so I summarized a little more than I should have. I agree 110% the "evolution on small scales is apparent where as Darwinian ape to human evolution is a load of bull. I stated that Global Warming is taught and should be as a theory as much as darwinian evolution is a theory. Schools, for the majority, teach both as hard fact. I believe quite simply that God spoke into existence, quite literally, the world. I also agree that species adapt and evolve to survive. Look at man, we have obviously evolved in many ways as has other animal and plant life to survive the changing of the world around us. So I think more or less you and I agree on most of the subject matter.
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Seems in good ol' Florida, you don't even need to bring religion up, just being a member of the Tea Party gets this woman fired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCmDdJDuQ7M&feature=player_embedded
and yes she is an "educator" asked to speak, and fired for what she said.
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Tom, You'd be amazed that I agree with you 100%. I was rushed a bit so I summarized a little more than I should have. I agree 110% the "evolution on small scales is apparent where as Darwinian ape to human evolution is a load of bull. I stated that Global Warming is taught and should be as a theory as much as darwinian evolution is a theory. Schools, for the majority, teach both as hard fact. I believe quite simply that God spoke into existence, quite literally, the world. I also agree that species adapt and evolve to survive. Look at man, we have obviously evolved in many ways as has other animal and plant life to survive the changing of the world around us. So I think more or less you and I agree on most of the subject matter.
I'm semi on the same page. The Bible isn't and was never meant to be, a science book. It tells us God created Man and Woman in His image. It doesn't tell us how. Who cares? Find me the missing link, or find me the corpses of a literal Adam and a literal Eve. It won't change my faith either way. The problem occurs when people take Scripture so literally that they forget that God isn't in fight at all. They are just arguing about who's view of how to read a book is better. Its the sin of pride. "I Know what the Bible Really means". Please! That's why its called faith, not math. We do the best we can to understand the writings of fallible men who tried to describe their encounters with the infinite. Nothing more and nothing less. The Book is authoritative, inspired and true. Literally true, and self interpreting? I say no. YMMV.
FQ13