The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Prayer Requests => Topic started by: twyacht on June 10, 2010, 05:56:39 PM
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16 year old Abby Sunderland, of California, set sail on her 40 ft vessel. Attempting to be the youngest female to circumnavigate the globe alone, she has gone missing in the Southern Indian Ocean, after her EPIRB, (emergency beacon) was activated, and all communication has been lost,,,today. It's winter down there, and her last report had seas to 30 feet.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37621453/?gt1=43001
Sailors pray,
For fair winds and a following sea
The smell of salt in the air,
The feel of their skin as it's touched by the spray
An albatross soaring above,
Dolphins in the ship's wake at play
To witness a work of art that only God can create,
The sunset at the end of day
At night a million stars in the sky,
Safe anchorage in an islands lee
When the time comes to die as for all it must,
To awake in Sailors Heaven where nothing ever rusts
And always there would be,
Fair winds and a following sea
C. D. Williams.COM
I hope and pray she is rescued in time. A calling to the sea is powerful, especially in this young sailor, and in God's hands and grace, I pray for her safe return.
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God Bless and keep this young woman and return her to safer shores...
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She has been found safe and sound...prayers answered.
Richard
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The Aussies found her :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
We don't need to lose the brave and courageous ones. I hope she's not a liberal
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37618875/ns/sports-other_sports/
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The Aussies found her :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
We don't need to lose the brave and courageous ones. I hope she's not a liberal
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37618875/ns/sports-other_sports/
Sorry but lettling a teenage girl sail around the world by herself is criminally stupid.
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Her brother did it last year at 17 and an Aussie 16 year old young lady made the trip solo beating Abby to that title because of Abby's equipment failure that required her to cancel the solo non-stop run.
From what I have read, she has been sailing all her life and was capable of making the trip.
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And that makes safe???
Lets' put it this way. Give the keys to your car and let a 16 year old drive around the world. The route includes Iran, North Korea and Somila.
Well Little Johnny ddin't get killed when he did it so it's all right.
She can call if she needs help. Somebody else can risk there life so she can feel empowered.
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Safe is for the common sheep, this young lady has shown that she is anything but common.
RC55 may be correct as far as he goes, but there are considerations that far out way mere "safety".
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I have no doubt she was better prepared and equipped to make a safe journey around the world that Columbus was to make h s trip across the Atlantic.
While the Apollo 11 moon landing mission was as well prepared and equipped as technically possible at that time, I'd bet the risk factor for that mission was greater than that of Abby on her trip around the world.
If humans had waited till it things were "safe" we'd still be eating raw meat and working with dull instruments.
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I have no doubt she was better prepared and equipped to make a safe journey around the world that Columbus was to make h s trip across the Atlantic.
While the Apollo 11 moon landing mission was as well prepared and equipped as technically possible at that time, I'd bet the risk factor for that mission was greater than that of Abby on her trip around the world.
If humans had waited till it things were "safe" we'd still be eating raw meat and working with dull instruments.
I beg to disagree.
Columbus sailed with three vessels crewed by experiance sailors. Adult sailors. Every boat was larger than the 40 footer she is in.
Apollo 11 was flown by three men after 10 other missions had worked the bugs as much as possible. Each of the pilots had thousands of hours of flight time and simulations on the mission. If you remember NASA always sweated the minutes the craft was out of comms behind the moon. She is without any comms except an EPIR.
I don't question her courage. I question her fathers intellignce.
"Sailing and life in general is dangerous. Teenagers drive cars. Does that mean teenagers shouldn't drive a car?" Laurence Sunderland told the AP. "I think people who hold that opinion have lost their zeal for life. They're living in a cotton-wool tunnel to make everything safe."
Driving a car around town and sailing around the world sinlge handed are the same risk?
Go watch Deadlist Catch when they are in 50 knot winds and 30 foot seas in a 100+ metal vessel, and tell me you would let your kid sail around in that by themselve in a fiberglass sailboat.
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RC55, How many teens die in car wrecks every year ?
How many die sailing around the world ?
Obviously sailing is FAR safer.
(and yes I do know I'm being an A hole, thank you ;D )
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RC55, How many teens die in car wrecks every year ?
How many die sailing around the world ?
Obviously sailing is FAR safer.
(and yes I do know I'm being an A hole, thank you ;D )
Further, less than 1/10 of 1% of all traffic fatalities occur at speeds in excess of 90mph. So, by how much will your risk of being killed in a traffic accident be reduced by always traveling in excess of 90mph.
(and yes, I do know Tom B is being an A Hole too, thank you ;D ;D ;D)
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RC55, How many teens die in car wrecks every year ?
How many die sailing around the world ?
Obviously sailing is FAR safer.
(and yes I do know I'm being an A hole, thank you ;D )
Tom & Solus
You must have failed statistics. ;D
I doubt there are a significant population of teenage solo global sailors (35 or more).
The correct question would be what percentage of people who wreck at 90mph survive compared to 55mph or 25 mph.
How many solo sailors die in the attempt? The last percentage I heard was 10%. How many need rescued? Don't know.
Chichester had a 50/50 record and he was one of the greatest.
Go get a copy of 66 Days Adrift by William Butler. Excellant book by a blue water sailor with 77,000 miles of global sailing.
He was not alone, had some time to abandon ship but his EPIR failed.
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Tom & Solus
You must have failed statistics. ;D
I doubt there are a significant population of teenage solo global sailors (35 or more).
The correct question would be what percentage of people who wreck at 90mph survive compared to 55mph or 25 mph.
How many solo sailors die in the attempt? The last percentage I heard was 10%. How many need rescued? Don't know.
Chichester had a 50/50 record and he was one of the greatest.
Go get a copy of 66 Days Adrift by William Butler. Excellant book by a blue water sailor with 77,000 miles of global sailing.
He was not alone, had some time to abandon ship but his EPIR failed.
I enjoy statistics....and percentages....without understanding what is involved in them you cannot know where the smoke ends and the BS starts : ;D ;D
Well, looks like Bill Butler, who had more NM under his keel, was not alone and was probably older than Abby, left the nest too soon. How much older should he have been before he took the chance sail?
About the 55 and 25mph....would be even safer if you walked...but you are never gonna make it to the coast if you don't take that risk.
P.S. If 1 out of four children born is Chinese, what is the probability that in a family of four children, exactly one of them is Chinese?
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Statistics: The science the believes the average human has one testicle
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Statistics: The science the believes the average human has one testicle
A man is standing with one foot on a searing griddle and the other on a block of dry ice. On the average, he's comfortable.
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So tacking back on track.
Tom & Solus would you let your 16 daughter drive across country by herself?
Here is the latest picture of her boat on her website.
http://www.soloround.blogspot.com/
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When I was 16 a friend and I decided to hop a freight train from Cincinnati to Indianapolis. I asked my parents permission, he told them he was sleeping over at my place.
My mom and dad let me go and told me to call them when I got there to let them know my plans and to call we ran into trouble and needed help.
Let me tell you, a hobo's life is not all it is cracked up to be. We hitch hiked back home along route 50.
Driving across country at 16 is not the same as sailing around the world at 16.
Remember, a 16 year old driver would have less than a year behind the wheel. Abby has been sailing for many more years and has more experience at it.
If my 16 year old daughter had that much sailing experience, I'd let her make the sailing trip before the driving trip.
I'd bet Abby has more miles sailed and hours at the help than a 16 year old driver has behind the wheel.
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I'm walking the fence on this one. Some kids are far more mature and capable at 16 than some "grown ups" in their twenties and thirties.
As far as driving, I know plenty of mature adults who should never, ever drive a motor vehicle.
In MA, a few hundred bucks, 12 hours of driving with your parents over six months and a five minute driving test administered by some snot nosed State Trooper and you're good to go forth and kill as many people as you can with an automobile!
It's a joke!
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I'm walking the fence on this one. Some kids are far more mature and capable at 16 than some "grown ups" in their twenties and thirties.
As far as driving, I know plenty of mature adults who should never, ever drive a motor vehicle.
In MA, a few hundred bucks, 12 hours of driving with your parents over six months and a five minute driving test administered by some snot nosed State Trooper and you're good to go forth and kill as many people as you can with an automobile!
It's a joke!
I know I am continuing with the terrible thread drift here...but we've chewed this one up so much, a little more won't hurt to bad.
This is about Driver's Licenses. I've stated before that I don't believe it is a privileged as the government has no privileges to hand out to the citizens.
I don't think the Founding Fathers would be very approving if they were required to get permission from the state to operate a horse, buggy or buckboard, the primary means of private transportation of their day.
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I'm thankful that Prayers were answered, and she is going to be rescued.
As for the drift, human nature is an interesting thing, young pilots, young sailors, young motorcycle, auto racers, drivers, etc,.....There will always be exceptions to the stats. Look at Jeff Gordon the Nascar driver, started at what,...5 years old. So at 16, running the Sprint Cup series, made him not qualified? I'm sure there is more to the story that made her more qualified than a mere rookie.
It would be interesting to know this young ladies credentials, certifications, Capt.'s License, Radar endorsements, open ocean celestial navigation certificates, ability to know deviation and variation, plotting, using a sextant, she was already past halfway when her equipment failed.
I bet she would have made it, and, I'll bet she tries it again.
Thank you God for keeping her safe.
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I'm thankful that Prayers were answered, and she is going to be rescued.
As for the drift, human nature is an interesting thing, young pilots, young sailors, young motorcycle, auto racers, drivers, etc,.....There will always be exceptions to the stats. Look at Jeff Gordon the Nascar driver, started at what,...5 years old. So at 16, running the Sprint Cup series, made him not qualified? I'm sure there is more to the story that made her more qualified than a mere rookie.
It would be interesting to know this young ladies credentials, certifications, Capt.'s License, Radar endorsements, open ocean celestial navigation certificates, ability to know deviation and variation, plotting, using a sextant, she was already past halfway when her equipment failed.
I bet she would have made it, and, I'll bet she tries it again.
Thank you God for keeping her safe.
Amen to that.
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I know I am continuing with the terrible thread drift here...but we've chewed this one up so much, a little more won't hurt to bad.
This is about Driver's Licenses. I've stated before that I don't believe it is a privileged as the government has no privileges to hand out to the citizens.
I don't think the Founding Fathers would be very approving if they were required to get permission from the state to operate a horse, buggy or buckboard, the primary means of private transportation of their day.
Scary, Solus....I made, almost word-for-word, that same statement in a conversation a few days ago.
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I hitch hiked half way across country when I was 16.
And for a girl I would submit that, depending on the neighborhood, Sailing could be safer than walking home from school, never mind driving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Sunderland
Sunderland said she has been preparing for her journey since age 13.[1] She has been training ocean sailing together with experienced sailors, especially her father, Laurence Sunderland. He described when he understood she had the determination to do it. "It was a particularly rough day and her boat was rocking from gunnel to gunnel. ... I knew she was freezing cold, tired and hungry, and we'd been at it for, you know, 20 hours at that stage. I said, 'So Abby, are you ready to sail around the world now?' To which she replied, 'Where is my boat?'"[8]
The planned sail route is: Marina del Rey – Cape Horn – Cape of Good Hope – Cape Leeuwin – Marina del Rey in 10 legs, solo and unassisted, in accordance with the definitions set by the International Sailing Federation World Sailing Speed Record Council (WSSRC). According to the WSSRC, the Equator must be crossed according to the rules of world circumnavigation, which she will do in the Pacific Ocean as she departs and returns to Cabo San Lucas.
Sail-World reported concerns about the timing of her start: "While ... she will round the Horn in the height of summer when conditions should be the best they can be, her delayed departure ... means that by the time she sails south of Australia, the weather will be approaching Autumn, and the weather will be deteriorating."[9]
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Scary, Solus....I made, almost word-for-word, that same statement in a conversation a few days ago.
Damn, Peg...you're smarter than you look ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Damn, Peg...you're smarter than you look ;D ;D ;D ;D
I find it lowers people's expectations....... ;) ;D
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I'm glad the young lady is ok. Maybe she'll try it again and have better weather and better luck!
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They did not get the ~ 1 mill boat, its still floating around out there.
There are also reports that the family is hurting for money and was hoping for a reality TV show... She is damn lucky all that happen to her was getting Demasted.
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They did not get the ~ 1 mill boat, its still floating around out there.
There are also reports that the family is hurting for money and was hoping for a reality TV show... She is damn lucky all that happen to her was getting Demasted.
I heard they got an offer for a reality TV show.
As far as I am concerned there is not much different between this and the balloon boy.... except that the girl was actually in danger
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I heard they got an offer for a reality TV show.
As far as I am concerned there is not much different between this and the ballon boy.... except that the girl was actually in danger
It was on larry king live... he admit they had a deal and lost it. makes me sick just to think about it. here your kid is risking thier life so you can make money off some TV show.
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It was on larry king live... he admit they had a deal and lost it. makes me sick just to think about it. here your kid is risking thier life so you can make money off some TV show.
You are making an assumption, TAB and Eric.
The assumption is that the young lady's attempt was only to get the TV show.
So, you feel that they started her sailing at an early age, did three years of planning and training for the attempt, acquired a million dollar boat all to land the TV show?
I propose that they did all the sailing, planning and training, and she was going to make the attempt no matter what. If they could swing a TV deal out of it, that would love that too.
Remember their son made the same trip, which I guess you would say, was pre-planning to land the show?
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You are making an assumption, TAB and Eric.
The assumption is that the young lady's attempt was only to get the TV show.
So, you feel that they started her sailing at an early age, did three years of planning and training for the attempt, acquired a million dollar boat all to land the TV show?
I propose that they did all the sailing, planning and training, and she was going to make the attempt no matter what. If they could swing a TV deal out of it, that would love that too.
Remember their son made the same trip, which I guess you would say, was pre-planning to land the show?
You are right, I am making a judgement call.
The way I see it is that her and her brother (as well as the kid that just climbed Everest) were being exploited by their parents. What is the deciding factor here? They were marketing this the entire time. Its not like they were just doing this b/c the girl likes to sail or they wanted her to have some great life experience. If that were the case, they just would have just gone and done it with out all the drummed up fan fair. They, however, made the full rounds before hand on all the cable news shows and talk shows as well as setting up websites and blogging it the entire time.... They were trying to get as much fame out of this as possible, and obviously trying to get a pay day via a TV show. Is not right. That girl was in serious danger and ended up alone and adrift in the middle of nowhere for two days and only luck, prayers, and a high dollar rescue effort brought her home safe. I am not saying that she was not capable as a sailor, but she was without a doubt coersed into this by her parents.
The Everest thing was even worse. That was probably even more dangerous because no matter how accomplished of a climber that kid was or how athletic he was.... there was no way of knowing how his body would accliment itself to the lack of oxygen until he got up there... and at that point he would be in a situation where the odds were greatly against him getting down the mountain in time to save his life. I am sorry, but parents should NEVER allow their kids to be in a situation where their brain could swell up and they die in a matter of 30 minutes. If he wants to go climb Everest, then make him wait until he is 18 and he can make his own decision as an adult.
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Eric, let me make sure I understand your post concerning the young sailor.
You seem to be saying that if she was going to make the attempt only because she loved to sail (which it seems she does) and to have the great experience (which it would have been), then her parents approval would not have been wrong?
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Eric, let me make sure I understand your post concerning the young sailor.
You seem to be saying that if she was going to make the attempt only because she loved to sail (which it seems she does) and to have the great experience (which it would have been), then her parents approval would not have been wrong?
Well, I would not let my kid do it because I think it truely is too dangerous for a kid that age. Maybe you can make a case for child endagnerment, but thats rather subjective.
The big thing I am saying here is that these parents were clrealy using their kids for their own ambitions. They were trying to get as much publicity for this as possible - that seemed to always be their primary concern. Like you said, this is something that took years to plan - and so did her brothers trip before that. I don treally think that a 12 or 13 year old child has the ability to say "yeah, sign me up for a solo trip around the world... lets start planning it".
Its one thing to weigh the dangers of an activity and decide to let them do it to enrich their lives, but to do so for fame and monetary gain is horrible.
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Eric, you and TAB are nothing but Nanny state busy bodies who condemn anything you didn't have the courage to try.
Go join the Democrats, you seem to share an agenda.
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Eric, you and TAB are nothing but Nanny state busy bodies who condemn anything you didn't have the courage to try.
Go join the Democrats, you seem to share an agenda.
Yeah, thats an accurate statement about who I am...... A nanny state democrat...... boy you really nailed it, Tom ::)
So to recap, Tom's main points are:
1. Nanny Stater
2. Busy Body
3. Coward
4. Democrat
Wow, you are really bringing a lot to the debate, Tom. Thanks for such a well thought out rebutal. :P
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Some of Abby's words from this article and a statement from the meteorologist who had been working with her on her attempt.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/15/abby-sunderland-defends-parents_n_613432.html
"I think that a lot of people are judging me by the standards they have for their teens and other teens that they know ... and thinking, 'She's exactly like them,'" Sunderland said. "They don't understand that I've sailed my whole life and I do know what I'm doing out there."
"Storms and bad weather, it's the chance you take when you're sailing around the world," Sunderland said. "And I was up for it, and my parents knew I was."
On Tuesday, Sunderland posted a statement on her blog from one of the meteorologists who had been tracking the weather for her during her journey. Ken Campbell of New Hampshire-based Commander's Weather defended both Sunderland's capabilities as a sailor and her decision to cross the Indian Ocean as the Southern Hemisphere winter was approaching.
"We were late crossing the Indian Ocean, but I felt Abby was fully capable," Campbell wrote.
"We have over 6,000 clients, but we will not work with somebody that is not capable or does something we consider too dangerous," he added.
"You don't have time to be terrified. If you get terrified, things just get worse. You just deal with what you get given and make the best out of it," she said.
"I think my biggest regret is having to give up my dream, but I didn't really have a choice," she said. "I was definitely up for it and I definitely could have done it."
Sunderland says she loves sailing "just as much as the day that I left," and that she still hopes to circumnavigate the globe someday.
"It's been a dream or a goal of mine for years. I don't know when or how I will, but I'm pretty sure I will one day sail around the world," she said.
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the saling community as a whole is looking down on this type of thing.
just a little reading for you.
http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2010-06-14&dayid=439#Story4
if even 10% of what they say in that artical is true, these parents are a bunch of sleaze balls.
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Some of Abby's words from this article and a statement from the meteorologist who had been working with her on her attempt.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/15/abby-sunderland-defends-parents_n_613432.html
I get it... And I have no doubt that she probably had the skill set to make it happen, but think about how different the story would have been if she had died. It could have just as easily turned out that way - Being adrift in the middle of the ocean was pretty much a coin flip. How much more flack would her parents have taken? Would there have been charges? Would any of your opinions have changed?
All I am saying is that the parents made the decision to let their daughter go... It was 100% their call... And from the things I have seen, I believe they did it for fame and money. I most certainly may be wrong. But I think those parents put unimportant things infront of their child's (children's) safety.
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Question....
How many of us would have let that nine year old boy shoot a full auto Uzi?
As parents, we all make decisions. Sometimes there not the correct ones to make. In California, at 16, this young woman is not legally allowed to make these decisions on her own. Her parents must do it for her and the fact that the dad was "jonesing" for a TV deal does shed a different light on the subject.
I've been on Lake Michigan sailing in a mild storm and it scared the daylights out of me! I probably would have persuaded my daughter to wait. Records are sometimes not worth the risk.
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I get it... And I have no doubt that she probably had the skill set to make it happen, but think about how different the story would have been if she had died. It could have just as easily turned out that way - Being adrift in the middle of the ocean was pretty much a coin flip. How much more flack would her parents have taken? Would there have been charges? Would any of your opinions have changed?
All I am saying is that the parents made the decision to let their daughter go... It was 100% their call... And from the things I have seen, I believe they did it for fame and money. I most certainly may be wrong. But I think those parents put unimportant things infront of their child's (children's) safety.
I doubt she had the skill set. After seeing how her boat was rigged, tacting and jibbing were basicly one hand operations. any one on this site could be tought how to do it in litterly mins. a few weeks on the water and you would be read to make the CA to HI trip. as long as nothing broke you would be fine. Thats where exp would come into play.
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I probably would have presuaded my daughter to wait. Records are sometimes not worth the risk.
+1
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Wow!
Tab, Eric and I on the same side of an issue.
Truly the last sign of the Apocalypse
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Her mast snapped. The Whitbread Round The World Race, which are larger boats with full crews of pro sailors, did the same thing when their mast snapped, in 1990.
Exp. sailors, when a mast snaps, is hit the Epirb, call out a distress, clear the rigging, and pray a rescue comes quickly.
Seems her "exp" worked just as the pros did. Plus she was already more than halfway.
Wow!
Tab, Eric and I on the same side of an issue.
Truly the last sign of the Apocalypse
:o
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Wow!
Tab, Eric and I on the same side of an issue.
Truly the last sign of the Apocalypse
Well, Quaker is not in the group... so its all good ;D
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Her mast snapped. The Whitbread Round The World Race, which are larger boats with full crews of pro sailors, did the same thing when their mast snapped, in 1990.
Exp. sailors, when a mast snaps, is hit the Epirb, call out a distress, clear the rigging, and pray a rescue comes quickly.
Seems her "exp" worked just as the pros did. Plus she was already more than halfway.
two be fair, race boats are nothing like the boat she was on. Also in a RACE, you may take risks that you normally would not.
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Question....
How many of us would have let that nine year old boy shoot a full auto Uzi?
As parents, we all make decisions. Sometimes there not the correct ones to make. In California, at 16, this young woman is not legally allowed to make these decisions on her own. Her parents must do it for her and the fact that the dad was "jonesing" for a TV deal does shed a different light on the subject.
I've been on Lake Michigan sailing in a mild storm and it scared the daylights out of me! I probably would have persuaded my daughter to wait. Records are sometimes not worth the risk.
From what I remember thinking at the time, it appeared that might have been the first time that nine year old had fired a FA firearm.
If he had been practicing with it for a bit, say starting with a single round in the magazine (whew) to learn how to hold and operate the weapon and to see if he had the physical strength to deal with it. Then working with 2 or 3 rounds in the mag and on up for as long as he demonstrated the strength and ability to handle the UZI.
So, Yes, after he had practiced and demonstrated he could handle the UZI, I'd let him do it.....
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Question....
How many of us would have let that nine year old boy shoot a full auto Uzi?
As parents, we all make decisions. Sometimes there not the correct ones to make. In California, at 16, this young woman is not legally allowed to make these decisions on her own. Her parents must do it for her and the fact that the dad was "jonesing" for a TV deal does shed a different light on the subject.
I've been on Lake Michigan sailing in a mild storm and it scared the daylights out of me! I probably would have persuaded my daughter to wait. Records are sometimes not worth the risk.
The age of Emancipation in CA is 14. Had the family gone through the legal procedure and she was emancipated, she could have made the decision herself. CA seems to feel age 14 is old enough to be making your own decisions.
California law states in order to get a declaration of emancipation from a judge, the minor have to prove ALL of the following criteria. The minor must be at least 14 years old, the minor must not want live with their parents and the parents do not mind if the minor moves out, the minor can handle their own money, the minor is employed and has a legal way to make money.
http://www.saclaw.lib.ca.us/pages/emancipation.aspx
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Question....
How many of us would have let that nine year old boy shoot a full auto Uzi?
As parents, we all make decisions. Sometimes there not the correct ones to make. In California, at 16, this young woman is not legally allowed to make these decisions on her own. Her parents must do it for her and the fact that the dad was "jonesing" for a TV deal does shed a different light on the subject.
I've been on Lake Michigan sailing in a mild storm and it scared the daylights out of me! I probably would have persuaded my daughter to wait. Records are sometimes not worth the risk.
This is true. That determination has to be made, but all records are held by those who decided it was worth the risk. Do not limit the aspirations of others based on your abilities or your limitations or your concern about the risks.
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I doubt she had the skill set. After seeing how her boat was rigged, tacting and jibbing were basicly one hand operations. any one on this site could be tought how to do it in litterly mins. a few weeks on the water and you would be read to make the CA to HI trip. as long as nothing broke you would be fine. Thats where exp would come into play.
TAB, you seem to be saying that because her boat was rigged for one handed operation, it somehow means she had a skill set that could be taught in a few weeks on the water?
Are you implying that if her rigging was set up for more complicated operation, it would have increased her skill set?
You also seem to be saying that after two weeks of training a brand new sailor could make the trip from CA to HI?...as long as nothing broke. Are there never any storms between CA and HI, or are you saying two weeks total helm time will prepare someone for the largest storm that will be encountered on that trip?
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The age of Emancipation in CA is 14. Had the family gone through the legal procedure and she was emancipated, she could have made the decision herself. CA seems to feel age 14 is old enough to be making your own decisions.
California law states in order to get a declaration of emancipation from a judge, the minor have to prove ALL of the following criteria. The minor must be at least 14 years old, the minor must not want live with their parents and the parents do not mind if the minor moves out, the minor can handle their own money, the minor is employed and has a legal way to make money.
http://www.saclaw.lib.ca.us/pages/emancipation.aspx
Thanks for clarifying. Probably a law in California to prevent greedy parents of child actors from bilking the kid of his earnings. Recently deceased Gary Coleman comes to mind.
Was she emmancipated?
As to letting the kid shoot a FA Uzi under MY supervision, probably! But under the supervision of a stranger who's qualifications are suspect? Not a chance! I wouldn't let a grown man shoot a FA without first taking them through the basics but thats only my opinion which matters little in the grand scheme of things.
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Thanks for clarifying. Probably a law in California to prevent greedy parents of child actors from bilking the kid of his earnings. Recently deceased Gary Coleman comes to mind.
Was she emmancipated?
As to letting the kid shoot a FA Uzi under MY supervision, probably! But under the supervision of a stranger who's qualifications are suspect? Not a chance! I wouldn't let a grown man shoot a FA without first taking them through the basics but thats only my opinion which matters little in the grand scheme of things.
Other states have Emancipation laws, even if Gary Coleman never lived there.
She was not Emancipated. My point was that being age 16, of itself, does not mean a person is not capable of making decisions for themselves.
I agree with this statement about the UZI. My post was intended to show that the situation with the nine year old and the UZI was very much different than the situation with Abby.
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I agree with this statement about the UZI. My post was intended to show that the situation with the nine year old and the UZI was very much different than the situation with Abby.
Understood and I agree. As I've already stated, some 16 year olds are far more mature than their parents.
I know personally, my parents had a hard time convincing ME never to jump off a cliff on my skiis or jump my dirt bike over a revine or any number of really dangerous things I was doing on my road bike, driving my Mustang, etc....etc....etc.....
We (my siblings and I) were allowed at a very early age to handle a speed boat or our small sailing vessel alone, without supervision but that has nothing to do with a sail around the globe. Michigan also required all sixth graders at the time to take a mandatory boaters safety course at their schools so we had some instruction. I don't know if that practice still exists.
I'm not taking sides, just having a conversation.
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TAB, you seem to be saying that because her boat was rigged for one handed operation, it somehow means she had a skill set that could be taught in a few weeks on the water?
Are you implying that if her rigging was set up for more complicated operation, it would have increased her skill set?
You also seem to be saying that after two weeks of training a brand new sailor could make the trip from CA to HI?...as long as nothing broke. Are there never any storms between CA and HI, or are you saying two weeks total helm time will prepare someone for the largest storm that will be encountered on that trip?
the boat was set up for basicly automatic tacting and jibbing. litterly button pushing. what I'm saying is in 2 weeks some one would have the skills needed to make that trip(in a boat like the one she was in), but not the exp or the knowledge to do it safely. just like a kid at 16 with a dl can legally drive, does not mean they can do it safely.
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Heck....sailing is all about terminology... ;D
tack, jibe, halyard, sheet, luff up, port, starboard, mainsail, jib, genoa, sloop, schooner, ketch, line, rope, abaft, amidships, abeam, beam reach, et. al..... Heck, I must be a sailor, I'm wearing Sperry Topsiders right now!
Learn those and wear a life vest....you're good to go! Oh yea, and Bernouli's law of physics...
Sextant? "We don need no freekin sextant"... give me three pencils, a few rubber bands and a compass...
The kids alive, she's got a story to tell.
;D
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Heck....sailing is all about terminology... ;D
tack, jibe, halyard, sheet, luff up, port, starboard, mainsail, jib, genoa, sloop, schooner, ketch, line, rope, abaft, amidships, abeam, beam reach, et. al..... Heck, I must be a sailor, I'm wearing Sperry Topsiders right now!
Learn those and wear a life vest....you're good to go! Oh yea, and Bernouli's law of physics...
Sextant? "We don need no freekin sextant"... give me three pencils, a few rubber bands and a compass...
The kids alive, she's got a story to tell.
;D
which the parents will be selling to the highest bidder... just watch
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which the parents will be selling to the highest bidder... just watch
They're from California, what did you expect?
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that was thier plan from the start.
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the boat was set up for basicly automatic tacting and jibbing. litterly button pushing. what I'm saying is in 2 weeks some one would have the skills needed to make that trip(in a boat like the one she was in), but not the exp or the knowledge to do it safely. just like a kid at 16 with a dl can legally drive, does not mean they can do it safely.
TAB, it is only wise to set your boat up that way for a solo round the world trip. The fact that it was set up that way and could be sailed without the detailed experience of sail handling does not mean she did not have that skill.
I remember way back when I new solo round the world sailing speed record was set and the prevailing wisdom said the guy did not stand a chance because his boat was not set up for max speed. He did, however, have it set up with an autopilot system which allowed him to sail 24/7 and set his record. I don't think anyone would attempt an around the world trip without that setup. It would not only be not competitive, it would not be wise.
We have two issues here.
One is whether she was capable of making the trip and another involves the her parents willingness to benefit financially due to their families activities.
From all I have read, the 16 year old was capable, prepared and enthusiastically willing and intent on making her journey.
There seems to be no doubt that her parents were willing to profit from the families adventures. No matter how much you dislike reality shows, that does not the parents plan was to have their children risk their lives to get a TV show. My belief is that the possibility of the TV show did not influence the parents estimation of their daughters skill and capability to make the trip. It also appears the planning for the trip began before any TV deals were made.
I'd guess that the possibility of financial reward influenced the decision but from a cost aspect. Spending over 1 mil for a boat is easier if there is the possibility of recouping that expense.
I find it amusing that comments were made about the family selling the story to the highest bidder. Don't know about the rest of yas, but I tend to pick the highest bidder when I have something for sale.
I have read a report that speculated that this families strong religious beliefs lead to the parents making a poor decision about their daughters skill and ability to make the trip because they believed God would protect her no matter what.
Lots of guessing and lots of speculation by folks who can't know what motivation the parents had.