The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: philw on June 20, 2010, 03:31:07 AM
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20008238-10391695.html?tag=nl.e879
120 mil
would it not be have been better to put that sort of $$$ in to the USMC or one of the other services for this type of work than contracting it out ???
CBS News has learned in an exclusive report that the State Department has awarded a part of what was formerly known as Blackwater Worldwide a contract worth more than $120 million for providing security services in Afghanistan.
Private security firm U.S. Training Center, a business unit of the Moyock, N.C.-based Blackwater, now called Xe Services, was awarded the contract Friday, a State Department spokeswoman said Friday night.
Under the contract, U.S. Training Center will provide "protective security services" at the new U.S. consulates in Herat and Mazar-e-Sharif, Afghanistan, the spokeswoman said. The firm can begin work "immediately" and has to start within two months. The contract lasts a year but can be extended twice for three months at a time to last a maximum of 18 months.
Should the firm fulfill all 18 months available in the contract, it will be paid a total of $120,123,293, the spokeswoman said.
The awarding of the contract comes just more than four months after the government of Iraq ordered hundreds of Blackwater-linked security guards to leave the country within seven days or face possible arrest.
The Justice Department is also trying to prosecute a case against five Blackwater guards who had opened fire on a crowded Baghdad street in 2007. Last December, a federal judge dismissed the U.S. government's case against the guards in the deaths of unarmed Iraqi civilians killed in the shooting because prosecutors used sworn statements the guards gave under a promise of immunity. Federal prosecutors are continuing to appeal the dismissal.
The Justice Department's case or Blackwater's expulsion from Iraq didn't block U.S. Training Center from bidding on the multi-million dollar contract, the State Department spokeswoman said.
"Under federal acquisition regulations, the prosecution of the specific Blackwater individuals does not preclude the company or its successive companies and subsidiaries from bidding on contracts," the spokeswoman said. "On the basis of full and open competition, the department performed a full technical evaluation of all proposals and determined the U.S. Training Center has the best ability and qualifications to meet the contract requirements."
Two other companies submitted bids for the contract, the spokeswoman said; however, she could not name either of U.S. Training Center's competitors when reached Friday night.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20008238-10391695.html?tag=nl.e879
120 mil
would it not be have been better to put that sort of $$$ in to the USMC or one of the other services for this type of work than contracting it out ???
Amen Phil. I don't care what others here may say. I don't believe we should "out source" the power of the sword. I don't like mercenaries, and their protestions aside, Blackwater is "mercenaries are us'. Better to recruit a few more good men and do the job ourselves. Just my .02.
FQ13
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Amen Phil. I don't care what others here may say. I don't believe we should "out source" the power of the sword. I don't like mercenaries, and their protestions aside, Blackwater is "mercenaries are us'. Better to recruit a few more good men and do the job ourselves. Just my .02.
FQ13
While I agree (to an extent) with you on principle. It's the same old story with the fact that contracting out to Blackwater, rather than putting it through the D.O.D. you are getting a far better value for the money. Historically mercenary forces have been able to do the same job (and most of the time a better job) as a conventional army for a fraction of the price tag.
For better or worse, merc's have been around as long as prostitution, and will continue to be around probably till the end of time. Personally I don't see a problem with it. YMMV
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Just like "Black Talon" bullets, now called the SXT's,...their not Blackwater anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide
Xe Services LLC (pronounced /ˈziː/ zee) is a private military company founded as Blackwater USA in 1997 by Erik Prince and Al Clark.[2][3] The company has a wide array of business divisions, subsidiaries, and spin-off corporations but the organization as a whole has aroused significant controversy.[4][5][6][7][8]
Based in North Carolina, Xe operates a tactical training facility (36°27′N 76°12′W / 36.45°N 76.2°W / 36.45; -76.2) the company claims is the world's largest, at which it trains more than 40,000 people a year, mostly from U.S. and other military and police services. The training consists of military offensive and defensive operations, as well as smaller scale personal security.
Xe is currently the largest of the U.S. State Department's three private security contractors. Of the 987 contractors Xe provides, 744 are U.S. citizens.[9][10] At least 90% of the company's revenue comes from government contracts, of which two-thirds are no-bid contracts.[11] Xe provided security services in Iraq to the United States federal government, particularly the Central Intelligence Agency[1] on a contractual basis. They no longer have a license to operate in Iraq: the new Iraqi government made multiple attempts to expel them from their country,[12] and denied their application for an operating license in January 2009.[13] However, the company is still under contract with the State Department and some Xe personnel were working legally in Iraq at least until September 2009.[14]
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First 3 paid professions, Mercenaries earned money, needed Spies, to find the whores.
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They sure did a great job of security at that CIA base in Afghanistan where everybody was killed.
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They sure did a great job of security at that CIA base in Afghanistan where everybody was killed.
Kinda like the great job the CIA did during TET, when they cleaned out their offices and bailed, but didn't bother telling anyone else what was coming. >:(
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Traditionally, one main advantage to mercenaries versus regular troops (up until everyone older than 8 years old carried a camera phone) was to be able to do some 'really dirty' work and get away with it without too much oversight......while maintaining plausible deniability.
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I agree with the above comments. My objections though, are reinforced by them. Mercenaries and prostitutes are practicing two of the worlds oldest professions. They are both equally likely to stay faithful to you when they get a better deal. Its a fool that trusts a man willing to kill for money, not duty and country.
FQ13
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FQ's opposition is the final seal of approval.
Good for Blackwater.
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One of my favorite movies (and others here have said the same) is Kelly's Heroes.
One of the themes of the movie is the "fighting spirit" of those soldiers involved in the operation. The motive is a share of the pile of gold which is the objective.
Everyone is motivated by self interest. For some self interest is money, for others it is Honor, Duty, Country, etc., for almost all it is self preservation when the bullets fly.
Perhaps the best soldiers will be those who have all of these as motivation.
It hasn't been unusual for Mercenaries choose the cause for which they will fight, and a wise commander will seek those for his command, and be aware of which lesser Mercenaries have been enlisted.
Fighting for Self Interest, in any combination, is the Free Market (Libertarian) way :D :D
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One of my favorite movies (and others here have said the same) is Kelly's Heroes.
One of the themes of the movie is the "fighting spirit" of those soldiers involved in the operation. The motive is a share of the pile of gold which is the objective.
Everyone is motivated by self interest. For some self interest is money, for others it is Honor, Duty, Country, etc., for almost all it is self preservation when the bullets fly.
Perhaps the best soldiers will be those who have all of these as motivation.
It hasn't been unusual for Mercenaries choose the cause for which they will fight, and a wise commander will seek those for his command, and be aware of which lesser Mercenaries have been enlisted.
Fighting for Self Interest, in any combination, is the Free Market (Libertarian) way :D :D
FQ's opposition to the use of Merc's shows how poorly founded his "alleged" Libertarian views actually are.
In the Federalist papers and other writings the founding fathers made clear their objections to a standing Army.
The alternative is a militia force, trained and led by purpose hired proffesional soldiers.
In other words "Mercenaries".
Gee, isn't this pretty much what Blackwater is providing ?
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It comes down to reiability in terms of their willingness to take risks (Marines don't get a choice), their willingness to accept the rule of law and respect the rights of civilians here and abroad, and the accountability of government for its actions. When it comes to the power of the sword I want sworn troops/officers who are directly accountable to civilian leadership, not third party contractors. I also want these folks, if we're going to use them, held accountable to the UCMJ, not virtually unaccountable like Black Water was before. I hardly think this is a radical proposition. The Founders agree with me. You might have noticed that the hiring of foriegn mercenaries was part of the Bill of Particulars in the Declaration. I don't think they'd have dropped the objection if the mercs were English rather than Hessian
FQ13
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It comes down to reiability in terms of their willingness to take risks (Marines don't get a choice), their willingness to accept the rule of law and respect the rights of civilians here and abroad, and the accountability of government for its actions. When it comes to the power of the sword I want sworn troops/officers who are directly accountable to civilian leadership, not third party contractors. I also want these folks, if we're going to use them, held accountable to the UCMJ, not virtually unaccountable like Black Water was before. I hardly think this is a radical proposition. The Founders agree with me. You might have noticed that the hiring of foriegn mercenaries was part of the Bill of Particulars in the Declaration. I don't think they'd have dropped the objection if the mercs were English rather than Hessian
FQ13
Crap.
It's about will they get the job done while lowering our manpower needs.
Remember, the number one pass time of Dems is cutting defense spending. Yet FQ has balls enough to have it both ways.
Don't spend $ on bigger Army, but don't hire any one else to do the job either.
dumbass
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Crap.
It's about will they get the job done while lowering our manpower needs.
Remember, the number one pass time of Dems is cutting defense spending. Yet FQ has balls enough to have it both ways.
Don't spend $ on bigger Army, but don't hire any one else to do the job either.
dumbass
Who said I want to cut defense spending? Unlike the Low tax zombies, I think we decide what we want government to do, then figure out how to pay for it. This means taxes, as deficit spending is a fools game. In the current case we are fighting two wars with a third being a real possibility. Spend more on defense. Tax accordingly and cut back in other areas. I am all im favor of a larger Army as it was Rumsfeld's three guys and a remote control airplane doctrine that got us into trouble in Afghanistan in the first place (and cost us Bin Laden as we relied on hey, mercenaries). I would much rather a larger army and a bigger hit in April, than a slightly smaller tax bill and Blackwater. Do not put words in my mouth as far as policy goes. Unless we are talking pork barrel nonsense, I have rarely seen a defense budget to seriously complain about.
FQ13
FQ13
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I should have been asleep 1/2 an hour ago, but you got this wrong.
"(and cost us Bin Laden as we relied on hey, mercenaries)"
Actually it was Rangers and Regular Army who did not get to Tora Bora in time.
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I should have been asleep 1/2 an hour ago, but you got this wrong.
"(and cost us Bin Laden as we relied on hey, mercenaries)"
Actually it was Rangers and Regular Army who did not get to Tora Bora in time.
Wrong. There were damn few on the ground. We relied on our stalwart ARVN, uh, I mean Northern Alliance, allies to hold the perimeter. These were tribal militia, who by many accounts got paid by Al Queda to take a cigarette break.
FQ13