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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on June 23, 2010, 02:49:30 PM

Title: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: billt on June 23, 2010, 02:49:30 PM: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=164269

The liberal left is furious. Say's the movie is not "correct". This time it's the Chicoms that invade us. Looks like a good one! Bill T.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: bafsu92 on June 23, 2010, 03:50:28 PM: I know someone who worked as an advisor on the film and he says unless they edit it to death it's going to be a very good movie.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Hazcat on June 23, 2010, 03:54:39 PM: Quote from: billt on June 23, 2010, 02:49:30 PM
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=164269

The liberal left is furious. Say's the movie is not "correct". This time it's the Chicoms that invade us. Looks like a good one! Bill T.

They are having a hissy spit aren't they! ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Hazcat on June 23, 2010, 03:59:05 PM: More MGM Fallout: Red Dawn Delayed, Perhaps Indefinitely?

Read more: More MGM Fallout: Red Dawn Delayed, Perhaps Indefinitely? | /Film http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/06/10/more-mgm-fallout-red-dawn-delayed-perhaps-indefinitely/#ixzz0riCpHne3
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: ratcatcher55 on June 23, 2010, 04:29:23 PM: Quote from: Hazcat on June 23, 2010, 03:59:05 PM
More MGM Fallout: Red Dawn Delayed, Perhaps Indefinitely?

Read more: More MGM Fallout: Red Dawn Delayed, Perhaps Indefinitely? | /Film http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/06/10/more-mgm-fallout-red-dawn-delayed-perhaps-indefinitely/#ixzz0riCpHne3

The Chicoms will just buy MGM and re-educate the whole crew.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: twyacht on June 23, 2010, 04:32:07 PM: Why can't they just leave the original alone? Creative thinking in Hollywood going away?

I know this posted about some time back, but a remake is still never the original...

Swayze was great in the original. (RIP).
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: cooptire on June 23, 2010, 05:24:05 PM: Quote from: bafsu92 on June 23, 2010, 03:50:28 PM
I know someone who worked as an advisor on the film and he says unless they edit it to death it's going to be a very good movie.

I'd heard that it really had potential. Of course the original is still one of the most striking memories of my youth. I can still remember where, when and with who I watched it the first time. Still watch it about once a year now.

Oh, and bafsu, nice avatar! ;)
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: TAB on June 23, 2010, 05:28:29 PM: I never like the 1st one.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: twyacht on June 23, 2010, 07:15:09 PM: Quote from: TAB on June 23, 2010, 05:28:29 PM
I never like the 1st one.

Than you certainly won't like the lame ass remake. ;)
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: bafsu92 on June 23, 2010, 09:17:03 PM: Quote from: cooptire on June 23, 2010, 05:24:05 PM
I'd heard that it really had potential. Of course the original is still one of the most striking memories of my youth. I can still remember where, when and with who I watched it the first time. Still watch it about once a year now.

Oh, and bafsu, nice avatar! ;)
I guess I need to find another one. I use that one on another site and I waited a while to put one up here. I hadn't seen anyone with it yet but wouldn't you know within 2 days of setting it up there it is with someone else.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: sledgemeister on June 24, 2010, 06:52:41 AM: Quote from: TAB on June 23, 2010, 05:28:29 PM
I never like the 1st one.

Mate I am not even a yank I loved the first one.

More proof that I am more american than a democrat! ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Hazcat on June 24, 2010, 08:07:06 AM: Sledge, You Aussies are coming out with your own version. It's called "Tomorrow when the war began". Looks pretty good.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: sledgemeister on June 24, 2010, 08:42:47 AM: Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Psssst Eric no steve lee in this either ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: JC5123 on June 24, 2010, 10:40:49 AM: Trailer makes this look like it is more about the "big picture".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeYCdp1ik_0
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Hazcat on June 24, 2010, 10:47:06 AM: Quote from: JC5123 on June 24, 2010, 10:40:49 AM
Trailer makes this look like it is more about the "big picture".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeYCdp1ik_0

You do realize that the trailer is a fake, don't ya?
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: JC5123 on June 24, 2010, 11:06:13 AM: Quote from: Hazcat on June 24, 2010, 10:47:06 AM
You do realize that the trailer is a fake, don't ya?

Have no idea, just googled it, and that's what came up.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: GUNS-R-US on June 24, 2010, 01:18:21 PM: I think they would both be good! I was / still am really looking forward to the release of the new Red Dawn movie!
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: twyacht on June 24, 2010, 03:34:51 PM: Probably more realistic if the movie portrayed Mexico wanting the Southwest back....
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tt11758 on June 24, 2010, 03:59:48 PM: Quote from: twyacht on June 24, 2010, 03:34:51 PM
Probably more realistic if the movie portrayed Mexico wanting the Southwest back....

They're already in the process of taking it back. Been to southern California lately?
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: BAC on June 24, 2010, 07:16:55 PM: Quote from: twyacht on June 24, 2010, 03:34:51 PM
Probably more realistic if the movie portrayed Mexico wanting the Southwest back....

Then it would be called "Wet Dawn"

Good night! Drive safely!
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: sledgemeister on June 24, 2010, 10:03:59 PM: Quote from: BAC on June 24, 2010, 07:16:55 PM
Then it would be called "Wet Dawn"

Good night! Drive safely!

Does that mean the Govenators slogan will be "I'll be 'wet' Back"?

I apologise in advance I know I shouldnt have but its all BAC's fault, he made me do it ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: BAC on June 24, 2010, 10:16:08 PM: Quote from: sledgemeister on June 24, 2010, 10:03:59 PM
Does that mean the Govenators slogan will be "I'll be 'wet' Back"?

I apologise in advance I know I shouldnt have but its all BAC's fault, he made me do it ;D

Careful, or I'll sick Julia on you!
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: sledgemeister on June 24, 2010, 11:54:48 PM: Quote from: BAC on June 24, 2010, 10:16:08 PM
Careful, or I'll sick Julia on you!

Noooooooooooo not the ranga, anything but the ranga !!! LOL
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: philw on June 25, 2010, 12:42:35 AM: Quote from: BAC on June 24, 2010, 10:16:08 PM
Careful, or I'll sick Julia on you!

Quote from: sledgemeister on June 24, 2010, 11:54:48 PM

Noooooooooooo not the ranga, anything but the ranga !!! LOL

hehe he has 2 in his house to deal with every day I think that would send him over the top
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: PegLeg45 on June 25, 2010, 10:50:06 AM: I guess it beats the new movie about the two homosexual illegal immigrant cowboys: "Wetback Mountain". :-X :o

Yes, it's been a while since I've dropped in on the corner and there's cobwebs about the place...... ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: sledgemeister on June 25, 2010, 11:02:51 AM: Quote from: PegLeg45 on June 25, 2010, 10:50:06 AM
I guess it beats the new movie about the two homosexual illegal immigrant cowboys: "Wetback Mountain". :-X :o

Yes, it's been a while since I've dropped in on the corner and there's cobwebs about the place...... ;D

roflmao! ;)
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 25, 2010, 11:41:58 AM: Am I the only one who finds it Ironic that ~~Cornhole Cowboys~~ ~~Brokedick~~ Brokeback Mountain is about sheepherders ? ::)
;D
I needed to check on the Cheez Whiz supply in the corner any way ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 25, 2010, 12:10:59 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on June 25, 2010, 11:41:58 AM
Am I the only one who finds it Ironic that ~~Cornhole Cowboys~~ ~~Brokedick~~ Brokeback Mountain is about sheepherders ? ::)
;D
I needed to check on the Cheez Whiz supply in the corner any way ;D
We all know sheep lie.Damn it! Stupid lying sheep. ;D
FQ13 who can stil picture some religious old guy taking the grand kids to see the new cowboy movie for a bit of "wholesome entertainment". ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: JC5123 on June 25, 2010, 12:16:56 PM: Quote from: fightingquaker13 on June 25, 2010, 12:10:59 PM
We all know sheep lie. They samnit! Stupid lying sheep. ;D
FQ13 who can stil picture some religious old guy taking the grand kids to see the new cowboy movie for a bit of "wholesome entertainment". ;D

So that was why you had such a shocked face when you came out of the theatre!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 25, 2010, 12:23:15 PM: Quote from: fightingquaker13 on June 25, 2010, 12:10:59 PM
We all know sheep lie. They samnit! Stupid lying sheep. ;D
FQ13 who can stil picture some religious old guy taking the grand kids to see the new cowboy movie for a bit of "wholesome entertainment". ;D

That happened to my co worker with his GF ;D
She was nuts about Heath Ledger so he got her the DVD.
Apparently she has had a some what "sheltered" life ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tt11758 on June 25, 2010, 05:36:38 PM: Quote from: fightingquaker13 on June 25, 2010, 12:10:59 PM
We all know sheep lie. They samnit! Stupid lying sheep. ;D
FQ13 who can stil picture some religious old guy taking the grand kids to see the new cowboy movie for a bit of "wholesome entertainment". ;D

Which is why sheep herders tuck their jeans into the tops of their boots.

OK, who farted in the corner?!?
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: philw on January 03, 2011, 04:00:00 PM: Quote from: Hazcat on June 24, 2010, 08:07:06 AM
Sledge, You Aussies are coming out with your own version. It's called "Tomorrow when the war began". Looks pretty good.

well I saw this last night

not bad movie

it is based on a book with the same name that has been modernised ( according to the Mrs that read it )

looks like they are also doing a sequel to it as well starts filming soon for a 2012 release

Red Dawn 2011 will be out this year as well :)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234719/
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: GUNS-R-US on February 04, 2011, 09:05:05 PM: Quote from: philw on January 03, 2011, 04:00:00 PM
well I saw this last night

not bad movie

it is based on a book with the same name that has been modernised ( according to the Mrs that read it )

looks like they are also doing a sequel to it as well starts filming soon for a 2012 release

Red Dawn 2011 will be out this year as well :)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234719/

I'd like to see that!
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: warhawke on February 05, 2011, 01:19:51 AM: Ya want to hear something really funny, my mom and dad were really pissed last summer because the Red Dawn film crew kept shutting down the street behind their house. Seems they wanted to film in a city that already looked like a war-zone so they picked my old neighborhood in Southwest Detroit.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: billt on February 05, 2011, 03:52:53 AM: Do they fight the "Peaceful Muslims" this time instead of the Russians? Bill T.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: cooptire on February 05, 2011, 11:49:02 AM: Quote from: billt on February 05, 2011, 03:52:53 AM
Do they fight the "Peaceful Muslims" this time instead of the Russians? Bill T.
i

Nope, I believe it is the Chinese this time. The "peaceful" muslims would never do anything like that! For Shame.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: pioneer on February 10, 2011, 02:22:41 PM: Uh oh! I think I saw my photo on the "Dangerous Citizen Board."

I am a huge fan of the original and own a copy. Guess I'll have to watch it this weekend. The old movie is kind of campy, and if you can get past the Sheen and Swayze actors acting as patriots, it is mildly entertaining. And that's the point. It is entertainment. Those same lefties who decry both the original and the remake, see nothing wrong with anti-American flicks by Michael Moore, or movies about the assassination of George W. Bush. Not some fictional president, but a sitting (at the time) US president. That's ok. That is perfectly acceptable as "art."

I look forward to the remake, although remakes are usually crappy, I shall see it in the theater and buy a copy when the DVD version is released.

WOLVERINES
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Red%20Dawn/reddawn.jpg)
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Ping on February 12, 2011, 11:09:51 PM: Just hope the remake of Red Dawn is not screwed up like most other remakes.

Wonder when Hollywood will make a good "Punisher" movie?
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: fightingquaker13 on February 13, 2011, 12:49:09 AM: The question isn't whether its a good remake. The question is why do a remake to begin with? I mean, by definition, its already been done. Move on, find something new. The first one was campy and absurd, but like most people of my generation I saw it as a land mark film, just like "The Day After". It shaped our world as we grew up during the Cold War, Quick test. Go into a bar full of thirty and forty somethings and yell "Wolverines!". I guarantee everyone will know what you are talking about. They may look at you funny, but they will understand. ;D Now? What's the point? It was absurd to imagine that the US could ever be succsesfully invaded even during the Cold War, but we actually kind of welcomed the idea as at least we could shoot back rather than passively waiting for the missles to fall. It was an empowering flick in the '80s. Now its its just silly. Seriously, a Chinese invasion? What are they going to do? Swim? The idea of Muslims taking over is even more absurd. Neither has the resonance of the original as without the Cold War context, it really makes no sense. You can remake "True Grit" and it works as its a timeless story about vengance and heroism. "Red Dawn" belongs to a particular time and place. If you weren't there, you don't get it. Its like Nena's "99 Luft Balloons" or Jesus Jones' "Right Here Right Now". You were either a child of the Cold War or you weren't. If you were, those songs and that movie have serious memories attached to them. If you weren't, they are just campy '80s schlock. Don't bother trying to remake them as they are the product of a particular time and place and depend on a worldview shaped by that time and place to give them meaning. Minus that? Its just a B movie. :-\ Rant over.
FQ13
PS Here's a bonus. ;D

And my favorite (I swear I saw officers cry when the wall came down and I was crying with them. That was a moment I will remember if I live to see 100), everyone in DC was singing this thing. It was a brief high before reality set in, but sweet lord, being in DC and wearing the uniform in '89-90? It was a magical time, the failed coup against Gorby, the Wall coming down, democracy in Eastern Europe, the dissolution of the USSR. Lord, it was like 50 years of history were gone and we were looking at a whole new world. I mean seriously, we were trained for four years to fight an NBC war against an enemy that just dissolved in a puff of smoke. There aren't words to describe what that felt like. It must have been like what VE day felt like for the Brits. Anyway, Jesus Jones had it right. A great song that captured an amazing moment. But just like Red Dawn, it doesn't stand the test of time. It was about a moment. "Right here, Right Now" indeed. You were there or you weren't.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 09:33:32 AM:    This is a lot more appropriate than Commie Nena
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Pathfinder on February 13, 2011, 12:12:28 PM: Quote from: fightingquaker13 on February 13, 2011, 12:49:09 AM
Its like Nena's "99 Luft Balloons" or Jesus Jones' "Right Here Right Now". You were either a child of the Cold War or you weren't. If you were, those songs and that movie have serious memories attached to them. If you weren't, they are just campy '80s schlock.

I got news for ya there, FQ, 99 Luft Balon WAS 80's schlock even back in the 80's. If this is a representation of a serious memory, boy, you got bigger problems than most of us even guessed at!

Let me guess - you openly wept at a Flock of Seagulls concert - assuming they ever had one?
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: fightingquaker13 on February 13, 2011, 12:15:16 PM: Quote from: Pathfinder on February 13, 2011, 12:12:28 PM
I got news for ya there, FQ, 99 Luft Balon WAS 80's schlock even back in the 80's. If this is a representation of a serious memory, boy, you got bigger problems than most of us even guessed at!

Let me guess - you openly wept at a Flock of Seagulls concert - assuming they ever had one?

Wasn't that the band that Paul Macartney had after he left that old one? ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 12:19:20 PM: I liked Flock of Seagulls OK, but I preferred Dexies midnight runners .
I can't for the life of me remember why. ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: PegLeg45 on February 13, 2011, 02:19:02 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 12:19:20 PM
I liked Flock of Seagulls OK, but I preferred Dexies midnight runners .
I can't for the life of me remember why. ;D

It was the banjo, wasn't it? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 05:12:20 PM: Dammit Peg, you made me search youtube and find that song, cuz I didn't remember any Banjo's.

Blame it on the 80's ;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Timothy on February 13, 2011, 06:13:55 PM: I agree with FQ that Soviets would have a hard time invading the continent. By the time Red Dawn came out the cold war was essentially over so it was a feel good movie, campy and unrealistic for sure. Completely unbelievable to me but enjoyable to watch anyway.

Might be the last time Charlie Sheen was sober too.. The Soviets had no Navy to speak of other than submarines, a few really shitty aircraft carriers but a more than capable long range bomber. Murmansk to Havana without stopping. We watched them on our deep sea hydrophones when they went over. The noise signature was unmistakable and we could track them as well as we did submarines. They could not leave port without a hitchhiker crawling up their backsides....undersea or in the air.

I'll watch it but not only did I live through the cold war, I have a Cold War Certificate and Congress is trying to give us a medal someday not that it matters much too me. Webb is calling it quits in 2012 and he sponsored the bill.

We won the Cold War without too many of you knowing what was going on, as it should be.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 06:47:24 PM: Mostly it was fought in Angleton's "wilderness of mirrors".
The most note worthy thing about Red Dawn was the Soviet use of Nicaraguan proxies for the actual assault.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Timothy on February 13, 2011, 06:55:40 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 06:47:24 PM
The most note worthy thing about Red Dawn was the Soviet use of Nicaraguan proxies for the actual assault.

Yes but for the Soviets to amass the armor necessary for an all out invasion from the south, without air cover or Naval bombardment was not a plausible scenario, by any stretch.......by the 50's we were operational, in the 60's we built the knowledge base of sound data, the 70's were our hayday, the 80's saw the beginning of the end and in 1996, we went into "wet storage".......

They never had a chance...trust me! If the Chinese think they can today, I know at least 1000 ex S0SUS boys and girls, that will do it for FREE! Might need a cane, some Geritol and 80mg of aspirin daily but we'd get it done!

;D
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: fightingquaker13 on February 13, 2011, 07:03:56 PM: If it comes to an invasion fleet from China, it won't take but one sub crew. Aircraft carriers are great for air to mud, and as an instrument of force projection. Attack subs are nice for spec ops and targeted sinkings. But today? If you need to sink a fleet far out to sea, you use a Tomahawk with an MD-88 set to airburst and call it a day. Fleet battles are as obsolete as calvalry charges. Just sayin'.
FQ13
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Timothy on February 13, 2011, 07:12:29 PM: This is my brothers work today. He's been with Electric Boat since 1980...

We still got the chops...and we still have bunches of LA class and Ohio Class in the fleet..

http://www.sublant.navy.mil/VirginiaClass.htm
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 07:12:38 PM: Big difference Tim.
With the Obummer cancellation of the new Amtrac for the Marines, and the introduction of the new Chinese model we are no longer at the top of the amphibious warfare food chain. But the fact remains, if they can't cross to Formosa, what makes any one think they can come here ?
Secondly, that type of warfare is old history, Hell, it was obsolete during the "Cold War" . Any one who thinks we "won" that is a fool. The Soviet threat was the Magicians big boobed assistant bouncing around while we lost the fight to internal subversion.
Modern war, at the Superpower level is conducted in cyberspace, Information, and economic warfare are the now and future. Modern Nuclear war will not be fought with mushroom clouds and nation killing war heads. It will be fought with a few EMP bursts.
You don't even need nukes for that.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Timothy on February 13, 2011, 07:18:05 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 07:12:38 PM
Big difference Tim.
With the Obummer cancellation of the new Amtrac for the Marines, and the introduction of the new Chinese model we are no longer at the top of the amphibious warfare food chain. But the fact remains, if they can't cross to Formosa, what makes any one think they can come here ?
Secondly, that type of warfare is old history, Hell, it was obsolete during the "Cold War" . Any one who thinks we "won" that is a fool. The Soviet threat was the Magicians big boobed assistant bouncing around while we lost the fight to internal subversion.
Modern war, at the Superpower level is conducted in cyberspace, Information, and economic warfare are the now and future. Modern Nuclear war will not be fought with mushroom clouds and nation killing war heads. It will be fought with a few EMP bursts.
You don't even need nukes for that.

No argument here Tom.

Modern Naval Forces today have an entirely different roll than anything prior but the Russians have been selling anything they can, to whomever was buying for years. I'm still comforted somewhat that the asset is still active.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 07:26:53 PM: Are you sure it didn't go the way of SAC. They dismantled the DEWline nearly 20 years ago.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Timothy on February 13, 2011, 07:33:47 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on February 13, 2011, 07:26:53 PM
Are you sure it didn't go the way of SAC. They dismantled the DEWline nearly 20 years ago.

Quite sure...mostly remote now but still active. Undersea threats are still there, just different players, some military, some not. Drug dealers are now using submarines to shuttle dope up from the south. Real tough to track too, shallow runners, hiding in the ambient noise of water near the surface.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: warhawke on February 14, 2011, 04:07:56 AM: Actually, I planned the Soviet Invasion of the US in 1983, just before the invasion of Grenada. Soviet air-coverage and transport capability (based primarily on the IL-76) required the runway on that Island to complete an air-bridge from Soviet controlled areas of Africa to Cuba and Nicaragua.

The primary Invasion force would have used the Northwest Passage led by Soviet nuclear powered Ice-breakers to move to the Mackenzie River in Canada and down to the Great Slave Lake. IIRC I figured 16 Divisions landing every 28 days from Mid-May to Late October. Soviet forces capturing several old EW sites in the Aleutians (there were a number of incidents in the area in that time frame, including the killing of 2 Alaskan N.G. soldiers at a White Alice site) and using them as forward control points to prevent U.S.N. interdiction of the invasion fleets.

The Arctic Ocean has never been a friendly place for the USN while the Soviets made good use of under-ice operations. Smaller landings in the south Hudson Bay area and moving to Lake Superior would have cut off eastern Canadian Forces and forced US forces to shift attention away from the main invasion front. Landings from Cuba on the Gulf coast to interdict US forces in the Trans-Mississippi area, destruction of cross-Mississippi bridges and the introduction of Nicaraguan forces into and across Mexico would have forced the diversion of US ground forces in the Texas and California regions. The addition of Spetnaz attacks on critical support, supply and communications targets could have reduced US forces significantly as CONUS had significantly fewer on-site resources to deal with conventional attack than any other area of operations . The United States has not been presented a significant threat of conventional invasion since the mid 19th century and has relied on oceanic buffers to prevent any such operations. some 75% of US conventional munitions were stored OFF-SHORE and would have been unavailable in any kind of significant quantity for some time, especially in the face of Soviet interdiction efforts.

I'm not saying the the operation would have worked in conquering the US, I doubt it would have, but such an operation would have reduced the US, economically and militarily to a level far below super-power status without the release of nuclear weapons in it's early stages, which would have been unlikely given the threat of massive retaliation.

I showed some of the officers in my reserve unit the plan in 1984 (maps and everything, I was very thorough) and the next month one of them told me that he was damn glad we had invaded Grenada as he and the others could find no significant flaw in the plans. I think that was why they pushed me so hard to go ROTC, quite a compliment from a bunch of Vietnam vet officers and NCO's.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: fightingquaker13 on February 14, 2011, 04:34:17 AM: Not bad as plans go. Still, it ignores two crucial factors. The first is that while poppoing a nuke on a land based target would have led to badness, popping one in the middle of the ocean to tag an invasion fleet would not (and still does not) carry the same consequnces. Yes it ups the ante, but stiill, are you really willing to initiate a MADD scenario over a few ships and a few thousand guys? I'm willing to bet that the answer is no. And that's the question. Woud they have nuked DC, knowing we would hit Moscow over blowing up some ships? Its one of the imponderables of the Cold War.
Th second point is this. Any invasion force, even one from Latin America would be operating at the wrong end of a long logistics train and true to the movie, Army aside, they would not have an easy time of it. I don't think the average American would think twice about shooting at those guys and any retaliation would just piss us off more. Hell, the Sovs learned that against the Germans. Everytime the Partisans struck, the Nazis killed a bunch of civilians. All that did was to recruit more partisans. We are learning that the hard way in the Sand Box. I guess I agree with Lincoln. The only way the US will die is by suicide. Absent huge internal turmoil that leaves us divided and unwilling to fight, the oceans are still a sufficient barrier as long as an enemy knows that they will face a very hot reception while they try to take miles and miles of very hostile ground.
FQ13
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: JC5123 on February 14, 2011, 10:55:04 AM: Kind of sounds like that is the premise though. America is bankrupt and the Chinese are calling in our debts. We don't have any money, so they are taking assets. i.e. LAND. In which case, the American gov't can't stop them. Our leaders put us so far into debt with them, they don't have a choice but to give up the territory. It's scenarios like this that make people so angry that congress has us mortgaged to the hilt. The only two assets that the government has are land, and people. Kinda makes you feel like a slave doesn't it.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 14, 2011, 12:14:07 PM: FQ, You are overlooking some things, first off, Nuking the Northern invasion fleet is a non starter, by the time the politicians in Washington realized what was going on, built up enough courage and then talked to Canada about it, things would be all over. Even if politicians did get off the mark and decide to nuke friendly territory in a timely manner none of our weapons where aimed at the middle of nowhere. The whole premise of MAD was the targeting of each other's cities, you don't re target an ICBM by just cranking in a few clicks on the scope, also this was prior to GPS which means that it would have been all manual map table calculations.
On top of that, the effects of nuclear torpedoes would have been hampered by the ice itself, limiting the effectiveness of the few that could be brought to bear in time to have any effect.
As far as the logistic tail of the Southern operations, it was irrelevant. Their job was not to win any kind of decisive victory, simply to sow confusion and draw off troops from the primary AO, foraging would have supply enough resources for them to accomplish their primary mission, any actual gains they made would simply be icing on the cake. You have to remember, The Soviet leadership of that time were WWII veterans where they issued one guy a rifle and 5 rounds, the 4 guys after him just got 5 rounds and orders to pick up his rifle when he was killed. casualties did not have the same impact on their society that they do on Western societies. Another thing to bear in mind was that Soviet stratagy fucused on reinforcing success, advancing units got resupplied and reinforced at the expense of stalled units, and all units were simply pushed to advance as long as they survived then new divisions were thrown in behind them.
Also, at that time, according to the declassified portions of the Mitrokhin Archive, (The Sword and the Shield Pgs 392-393 ) Breznev's successor, Former KGB director Yuri Andropov, and the leaders of the Politburo were so convinced that Reagan intended to launch a nuclear first strike that much of the KGB's First Chief Directorate was tasked with searching for information on US intentions under the auspices of "Operation Ryan".
And then there was Spetznaz. Remember our "ReForGer" exercises ? Return Forces to Germany , we practiced defending the Fulda Gap, and reinforcing our troops in Germany on a regular basis. Spetznaz practiced screwing up those types of operations just as carefully. The primary mission of many of the Soviet "illegal" networks ( operatives inserted under false identities and non diplomatic covers, such as the 11 arrested and exchanged a year or so ago ) was establishing equipment dumps for exactly that sort of operation.
The work of the US military in responding to invasion on multiple fronts would have been severely hampered by wide spread attacks on transportation and communication hubs. Among the items standard to Soviet Operational planning was chemical weapon attacks on nerve centers such as command posts and air fields. even with warning, and limited casualties efficiency at such points would have been greatly hampered by the need to work in protective equipment. To get an idea of what I mean, try disassembling your Sportical wearing winter gloves, a snowsuit and SCUBA mask, then consider how that would be trying to maintain jet aircraft.
Warhawke presents a frighteningly simple and effective plan.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: JC5123 on February 14, 2011, 12:30:28 PM: Don't forget also, that peoples thinking has changed since the cold war ended. Especially now after events like 9-11 and Katrina. Many more people are thinking about surviving disaster, and anyone serious about it has considered defense. I think that a better percentage of people today would be better able to defend against an invasion than they would have been at the time of the original Red Dawn.

People today, (yes I am even lumping in the mall ninjas) are better armed and equipped than they were 30 years ago. And as for the mall ninjas.....Every army needs cannon fodder.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: Texas_Bryan on February 14, 2011, 11:25:25 PM: Apparently from the writer of Red Dawn, but in video game form.
Title: Re: "Red Dawn" Is In Remake !
Post by: billt on February 15, 2011, 07:53:56 AM: Speaking of movies, "Unstoppable" comes out on DVD today. Melanie is going shopping this morning and is going to pick up a copy. I'll report after we watch it. It looks good! Bill T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM-0Ywc7wNY