The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on June 27, 2010, 04:35:42 PM
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Satan is knocking upon my door. I foolishly browsed through a few gun sites today. What did I find? Classic arms has Spanish G-3s at $500. Now, thats tempting. However, Cheaper than Dirt is selling the mags at $.97 in aluminium or $3 for steel! :o 100 mags for $100? Hell if one in three is reliable its worth it. Anyone have any experience with these?
FQ13
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I have a CETME (it's for sale BTW gotta find a way to pay for the RFB . . . .) and it is a very nice rifle. Chucks the brass a loooooong way, and dings them on the way out to boot - same problem with the Galils and other European-origin 7.62x51 rifles. The brass being ejected strikes the bolt handle as it is rotated by the ejector, and it gets one hell of a dent in the side.
I have a bunch of both the steel and aluminum mags, never had a problem with them.
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The aluminum receiver can be its Achilles Heel, although the HK91 West German ones, are better.
Heat transfer, when the Zombies come is important.
Kinda like an FN FAL wannabe, but tough like an AK, it has good history, good ORIGINAL design, but like Forrest Gump,
You never know what your gonna get.
The CETME rifle was designed primarily by the German engineer Ludwig Vorgrimler, who based his design on the experimental German StG 45(M) and the French-made AME 49. The StG45 used a roller-delayed blowback mechanism somewhat similar to the roller-locking system patented by Edward Stecke in the 1930s in Poland and used in the MG42. The MG42 locking system actually locks completely and requires a short stroke barrel that travels backwards to unlock, compared to the StG45(M) system that never completely locks and does not require a moving barrel. The CETME design inherits the StG45(M)'s fixed-barrel. The first prototype rifles fired the same 7.92x33mm Kurz round as the StG45, and a variety of experimental 7.92 and 7.62mm cartridges were tested before settling on the 7.62x51 CETME. This round was dimensionally identical to 7.62x51mm NATO, but with a lighter bullet and powder charge to reduce recoil, making fully automatic fire more controllable. Due to feedback from Heckler & Koch, the production rifle was chambered for the more powerful 7.62x51mm NATO round. The Model B went on to be the foundation of the widely-deployed Heckler & Koch G3 battle rifle.
The CETME Model A began manufacture in Spain in 1957. The CETME series of battle rifles was manufactured in five models, the A, B, C, L, LC, and LV models. The primary difference in the three first models is the absence of bipod and the lightweight C model, and the fact that the L, LC, and LV models fire the smaller 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge.
Replaced and refined by the G36, it is a good platform. Mileage may vary based on who's selling.
I would not want a piecemeal, Israeli "beater", that found it's way to Classic Arms, but parts are available, and it is pretty much a clean with motor oil Euro AK.
Still if the SHTF, it throws LOTS O' LEAD downrange.
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The cetme has a lot of drawbacks, failures to feed, or extract, and difficult in operation. Poor assembly, and does not work, without gunsmith help.I have worked on these and they take a lot of work to make them function, Good design, but poor execution. If you can disassemble it without tools, you probably have a good one. ;D
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AHHH, but can he REASSEMBLE it ? ;D
The ones made by Century International had a reputation for have the sights welded badly, 20 clicks adjustment and you still aren't hitting on your target type bad.
The reason they are so cheap, (I paid $550 in 2003 ) is that they are crap.
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I've got a couple and one runs better than any AR or AK I own. It gives my Springfield M1A1 a serious run for it's money at a 3rd of the price. The other is pretty solid and reliable too but I've had some small issues but only with certain ammo. At $500 i'd like 1 or 2 more just for parts guns.
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Good info above so I won't add much. There's nothing wrong with the CETME as arifle, but the Century assembled ones are a crap shoot. Used to seel them for $299...now a bit more.
I've had two. First one was century crap and I got rid of it. This last one has the cast aluminum receiver...they are considered better than most...think I paid $400 a few years ago.
By the way, there's no such thing as a Spanish CETME G3...the G3 is a distinct rifle. Based on the CETME with only a few improvements. Most CETMEs these days are relatively close to the Modelo C.
I made a podcas about the HK91 and the CETME. When I get back to the US I'll look it up and link it.
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The cetme has a lot of drawbacks, failures to feed, or extract, and difficult in operation. Poor assembly, and does not work, without gunsmith help.I have worked on these and they take a lot of work to make them function, Good design, but poor execution. If you can disassemble it without tools, you probably have a good one. ;D
I would go with a PTR-91. Yes, it's double the cost, but if you buy a CETME + all the Tylenol and gunsmithing bills to get rid of the headaches, you'll most likely break even. Bill T.
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Did any one mention that the fluted chamber means that reloaders have to resize the full length of the case ?
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I owned a Century G-3 for a short while. Got rid of it because it was bad to string shots vertically.
If you plan on reloading, you wont get any usable brass after running it through a G-3. Chews the brass pretty badly around the case neck.
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CIA ruined a heck of a lot of CETME's, but I have found them that were not to buggered up.
Check the bolt-head, if there is any grinding on the back it will need a new bolt-head and locking block (and possibly new rollers) they ground the bolt-heads rather than change the locking block.
RUN AWAY FROM ALUMINUM RECEIVERS! They WILL crack eventually, they are not strong enough to handle the recoil.
Check head-space but running the cocking handle back and locking it, then slap it forward (Hollywood style) and drop the hammer to ensure full seating. The head-space is checked by measuring the gap between the bolt-head and the bolt-carrier. You cannot check the H/S with standard gauges, period, the H&K/CETME is the most forgiving of head-space of any rifle design.
Check the action by running the bolt back and forth slowly and feeling for any binding caused by improperly mounted cocking tube or barrel trunnion.
Check the sights either by actual bore-sighting (pull the bolt, mount the weapon securely in a vice and look down the barrel and the through the sights) or with a laser. Many CETME's have canted sights due to the above problems of improperly mounted front-sight rings. If you buy used and the front sight is torqued to one side, odds are the POA/POI is off.
Check the muzzle if it has a muzzle-break, CIA pinned them through a blind hole and often drilled too deep, denting the bore or even having the pin protrude into the bore.
The H&K/CETME is one of the finest action designs ever, yes it could use much better ergo's but these rifles will out run an AK! CIA's grinder-monkeys just made a mess of them. As far as reloading, yes, you will need to full-length resize the brass and the dent will reduce usable life on the cases but it can be done. H&K use to sell a buffer that attached to the reciever that kept the brass from getting dinged but I can't find them anywhere now. The CETME is better than the H&K both in respect to the trigger (assuming you have an original, CIA used H&K trigger packs in a lot of them) and the chamber flutes are different which reduces felt recoil. The H&K rear sight is better though, especially if you can lay hands on the PTR-91 fully adjustable rear sight.
Hope this helps.
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I acquired a low serial number Cetme and must have gotten lucky as the quality is quite good and it is plenty accurate at 200 Yards if I do my part. The brass wasn't beat up as bad as I thought it would be even though the shells are launched a good 50 feet away! Picked up twenty of the cheaper aluminum mags and all function perfectly. This rifle is second only to my M1 so at $500 I'd pick one up.