The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: DGF on June 29, 2010, 06:42:52 PM
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My daughter travels for a large corporation, she is 6 months pregnant. Last week she was hosting a conference downstate and was staying at a very reputable hotel. At 4:00am she was awakened by a man entering her hotel room. He had a key. She screamed at him to get out of her room. She had to scream at him several times and he left. She was in a suite that had another door and she ran to that door and threw the dead bolt as the man tried to use his key on that door. She called the front desk and the desk clerk called the police. The man was apprehended and it turns out he had walked away from a local mental hospital.
The next morning she had a meeting with the General Manager, the Manager, and the Banquet Manager of the hotel. My daughter is not afraid to speak her mind, and she did. Apparently this man walked into the hotel and told the desk clerk he was staying in my daughters room and had lost his key. Without checking his identification the desk clerk gave him a key, even though the man was acting strangely (the desk clerks words). The desk clerk was fired.
Needless to say the hotel is terrified. I'm sure that they are waiting for a letter from my daughters lawyer. Her feelings, however, are that she wasn't hurt and, if anything, it has raised her awareness of her own vulnerability and security. We are not the suing kind of people. Things she has learned include making sure the deadbolt and the security chain are on the room door are secured. I had given her a can of Mace, but it was in her purse and not available. We are in a CC state and we discussed handguns but she is not comfortable with that idea. Perhaps a tazer would be a better idea. She will however have her mace on the nightstand next to her bed when she travels.
I post this story just to reinforce the idea that even when you think you are secure, think again, you may not be. This incident could have had a very different and tragic ending. I enjoy Best Defense and watch it weekly. I never thought its subject matter would hit so close to home.
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Glad your daughter is safe. You might not be the suing kind, but in this case maybe she should. If this place is corporate (Hampton etc) they will A settle quickly and generously. Pregnant woman menaced by a mental patient who got key with no ID and twice tried to enter her room? Hell, somebody's got to pay for the kids college, and it sounds like they deserve to be the one as he might never have seen daylight had your daughter been slower. B. Secondly though, nothing says change a policy or improve training to corporate America like writing a large check. It could keep something similar from happening to someone else. I mean honestly, this isn't ambulance chasing. Its negligence bordering on malfesance that put her life on the line. They promised a safe room. They then gave the key to a crazy guy that had no ID. That should cost them.
FQ13 who says "Release the hounds Smithers". ;D
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DGF, extremely glad it came out ok, lesson learned, use supplemental locks when available, hotel personal are not always reliable, I had reservations in a distant hotel, no problem got checked in and went to said room, opened the door with the electronic key, and good for me, I saw a disheveled bed, clothes and luggage, and thankfully not an armed occupant. moved to another room, but could have been nasty. When the occupant, use the secondary locking systems, and me, I might add to it and add a chair under the lock, or bring a door stop with me, not fool proof but just adds time to respond, but to respond, definitely not just your cellphone, pepper spray, wasp spray, Taser, handgun, shotgun ( if legal ) some device that makes a really loud and obnoxious noise that will make the folks around you call the desk and tell room 1234 to stfu.
What you do about the lax hotel personnel, is up to you, your daughter does have a good case.
Good subject.
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Very glad the outcome was favorable, they also make accessory hotel items at various travel stores, and online, that are very useful.
One is a magnetic door accessory, that will literally scream 110 decibels if the magnetic seal is broken between the door and jam, if the door is opened after being set.
Than the taser, pepper spray option, always work. Firearms in a hotel can be a slippery slope, but again, glad your daughter came out OK.
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First of all, glad your daughter is OK.
Second, along with the other things previously opined, talk with her (which I know you have and will again) and drive home the point of making sure the safety latch is flipped on the hotel door(s). It would appear that since the man gained access to the room, she may have inadvertently forgot to latch it. If there were no latches, then I would definitely consult an attorney.
Along with the portable alarm mentioned by TW, this may have prevented his entry to begin with. Also, to supplement the latch, I think an episode of TBD showed door wedges that can be used to wedge under the bottom of the door after closing it that helps stop folks from gaining unwanted entry.
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Thank you for your responses. We have thought about supplementary locking devices, wedges and various other devices that are on the market, but what do you do if you have a medical emergency and can't get to the door to remove them? The alarm device sounds interesting. Virginia, where we live is a CC state and my son-in-law seldom leaves the house unarmed and although my daughter has a CCP she does not carry. She worries that had she had a gun she might have shot the man in the hotel and then what? It is a fine line to walk when you have a gun.
I realize that there is a strong basis for legal action but she feels she was not hurt and alls well that ends well. The Hotel, we think, has learned a valuable lesson and they have taken this incident very seriously. Had she suffered any damage we would own that Hotel. If any good has come from all this it is that she has had a wake up call regarding her personal security. She will be much more aware in the future. And we all know that awareness is the first line of defense.
Again, thank you for your advice and response.
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Thank you for your responses. We have thought about supplementary locking devices, wedges and various other devices that are on the market, but what do you do if you have a medical emergency and can't get to the door to remove them? The alarm device sounds interesting. Virginia, where we live is a CC state and my son-in-law seldom leaves the house unarmed and although my daughter has a CCP she does not carry. She worries that had she had a gun she might have shot the man in the hotel and then what? It is a fine line to walk when you have a gun.
I realize that there is a strong basis for legal action but she feels she was not hurt and alls well that ends well. The Hotel, we think, has learned a valuable lesson and they have taken this incident very seriously. Had she suffered any damage we would own that Hotel. If any good has come from all this it is that she has had a wake up call regarding her personal security. She will be much more aware in the future. And we all know that awareness is the first line of defense.
Again, thank you for your advice and response.
Had she had a gun, it would have worked the same way. She would have screamed as she did until the man left, but she would have done so with less fear and panic as she would have had her gun in her hand.
Had he not left and kept approaching she would be the one to decide if she stopped him or submitted.
The fine line is whether she decides her fate or the intruder does.
With training, she would be prepared to make that decision wisely.
But, as we have all learned, avoidance is the better and safer course.
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Solus, I agree with you. The first requirement for CC however, is that you must be comfortable with a gun in your pocket. If you are not, then the gun becomes a liability. My daughter is planning to spend more time on the range and obtain the confidence that is necessary to handle firearms, but I doubt that she will ever want to carry on regular basis. That said, I think it would be foolish to break into her house while she is home. I grew up handling firearms of all types, I am a NRA member, as is my son-in-law, so we can give her the support she needs.
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Good work, DGF.
Take care.
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firstly glad she is ok
Solus, I agree with you. The first requirement for CC however, is that you must be comfortable with a gun in your pocket. If you are not, then the gun becomes a liability. My daughter is planning to spend more time on the range and obtain the confidence that is necessary to handle firearms, but I doubt that she will ever want to carry on regular basis. That said, I think it would be foolish to break into her house while she is home. I grew up handling firearms of all types, I am a NRA member, as is my son-in-law, so we can give her the support she needs.
however a crap load of training that she should take would help with that + make her more aware of her situation and that is better IMO than just having the CCW permit
you also may want to get her to watch TBD season's
I got my mrs to watch it and it has helped her and she understands why I have knives about the house (out of the reach of the little one )
and have one on me ALL the time as I can not have a firearm as they are only for sporting or hunting ( and apparently criminals are not an animal that we have an open season for :( )
I would love to get over to the states and do a couple of the training courses that you can do more on situational awareness
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Luke: "Lock the door."
Han: "And hope they dont have blasters."
8)
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I am going to come back to the law suit thing here. The reason is that the more I think about this, the more outraged and pissed off I get on your daughter's behalf. Here's why. The second she paid for that room and took possesion of the key, it became her domicile. Hers, not the hotel's from whenever she checked in until checkout time. Nobody enters that room without her permission or a warrant until then. Yet the hotel gave away a key. It is no different than if her landlord gave a key to her apartment to a random stranger. It is a fundamental violation of trust. That hotel room was her home for legal purposes that night. The management let someone in. I think I speak for all of us who CCW when I say we are not paranoid, but secyurity conscious. We are aware of our surroundings, carry a firearm and generally invest in good locks, safes, alarms and insurance. The last thing we need is the landlord stabbing us in the back by handing out the key without our permission. Handle it as you wish, your daughter is the injured party. However to me, upon further thought, this wasn't just a bone head move, but a serious betrayal of trust.
FQ13
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Fight, I probably didn't convey the fact that I am also pi$$ed. That a desk clerk would pull such a bonehead move makes me want to have a talk with him. Not only did he put my daughter in harms way but also my granddaughter to be.
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Fight, I probably didn't convey the fact that I am also pi$$ed. That a desk clerk would pull such a bonehead move makes me want to have a talk with him. Not only did he put my daughter in harms way but also my granddaughter to be.
sopt on i would of been wanting someone to get torn a new arse hole
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Fight, I probably didn't convey the fact that I am also pi$$ed. That a desk clerk would pull such a bonehead move makes me want to have a talk with him. Not only did he put my daughter in harms way but also my granddaughter to be.
Let the management know. Send them a letter and a phone call to the head of the hotel or chain. Let them know what happened and ask them what they are going to do to make it right to your daughter.
They don't want a lawsuit and for sure don't want any publicity. They might make an offer.
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I meant to add that I have ordered the first season of Best Defense for my daughter and son-in law. I watch it every week but they have never seen it. It may be a help.
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PhillW, sorry to hear how things are down under. Do you have any kind of movement underway to loosen your self defense laws? Canada is going through a transition, I understand, to do away with their draconian gun laws. Keep on working at it.
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I do not remember where I saw it, but Mas Ayoob did an excellent bit on staying in hotels and how to secure them. I know it was a video, but I just don't remember. I travel a ton (almost as much as MB). The hotel security on the doors works to buy you time, and also helps with those oops moments when they inadvertently hand out the room a second time (I have had this happen several times over the years).
Yes, the clerk was a bonehead on many levels.
-Bidah
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PhillW, sorry to hear how things are down under. Do you have any kind of movement underway to loosen your self defense laws? Canada is going through a transition, I understand, to do away with their draconian gun laws. Keep on working at it.
don't be sorry mate ;D
we do what we can here and there are a few always trying to get back what we used to have
in Canada they are trying to get rid of the long arm registrations.
here we have laws that if we are threatened in our homes and end up shooting in defence that will avoid us copping charges and a old farmer shot a bloke trying to break in and the police did not charge him as it was deemed to be justified
so it is not all doom and gloom
in saying that with the knife thing it is a "box opener" as you can not carry knives for defence so I use it to "open" boxes at work
if I was to go to a night club with it and get searched or in one of the places with metal detectors... I would be grasping at straws for saying i use it at work and could get done with carrying a prohibited weapon
we do what we need to do to get by though ;)
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Sorry about your daughters incident. We do learn more from our mistakes.
I spend way too much time in hotels around the world so I'll let you know what I do.
1) The do not disturb flag goes right on the door the second I'm sure I'm staying in the room. I've had "staff" just want to turn down the bed at 1:00 AM.
2) Dead bolt and chain are on when I'm in the room at all times.
3) When I'm out of the room, the TV is left on and the DO NOT DISTURB flag in the door. Let them think I'm there.
4) Tell the operator/desk clerk you will not accept visitors, or that they should call if someone if someone comes to see you. Do not give out your room number to anyone you don't trust including coworkers.
5) When overseas I have them send a picture of who ever is picking me up and addresses I where we will be going. I check routes out on Google Earth on where we will be traveling if I'm getting myself from the airport by cab.
When I'm overseas or in DC, NYC or LA I can not carry. I do check a good knife in my luggage and I always have a 6P on me.
I'm not much for lawyers but I would contact the top of the corporate ladder as I could find and let them know what happened.
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When I'm overseas or in DC, NYC or LA I can not carry. I do check a good knife in my luggage and I always have a 6P on me.
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Surefire 6P?
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Sorry, I thought everyone understood Tacticool! ;D
Yes Surefire 6P. It's an old one but has held up very well. I've used it much more than I would have thought and it does not cause anyproblems with TSA.
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Thanks! I have an 'off brand' that is very similar. Has a 'strobe' setting as well.
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Thanks! I have an 'off brand' that is very similar. Has a 'strobe' setting as well.
At the time it was a that or a big honking Maglight. There seems to be some really good lights available but the Surefire is still going strong. I have not lost it to the luggage gods or my own carelessness.
I had a Surefire E2 but my wife snatched as her own the day I brought it home. It would be a better size to travel with.
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Fight, I probably didn't convey the fact that I am also pi$$ed......
I thought that was a given.
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I am 70 years old. I carry a cane with me where ever I go. I live near DC and have no problem carrying it there. TSA will not question me if I travel by plane. I made my own cane from a blank 36" piece of white oak with a crook at one end. It is about 11/8th in dia.I got it on a website that sells stockman's canes for use with livestock. I cost me $8.50 plus shipping. I copied one of the canes I saw on the "Cane masters" website plus I made some additional modifications. I sharpened the end of the crook, not to a needle point but good enough. I also mitered the inside shaft of the cane to 45degrees which gives me basically a cutting edge without appearing so. I have Michael Janics "Martial Cane Concepts" CD and practice several times a week. Whether I will ever have to use it for self defense is a question I do not want answered. But if push comes to shove at least I am not unarmed. I generally also carry a folding knife.
For those of you that travel a cane is an ideal addition to your self defense arsenal. I enjoyed making the cane so much that I am going to make another with additional modifications , perhaps some brass inlay on the crook to give it a little additional weight. I have some other ideas as well but I have to be careful that it doesn't appear to be a sword or a war hammer, I think it can be done however for the sake of decorative art.