The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Marshal Halloway on July 01, 2010, 02:29:32 PM
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This according to Erick Erickson on RedState.com:
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/07/01/nra-now-leans-toward-endorsing-harry-reid/
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My initial reaction was WTF???!!!
But if you look at strictly 2A, it becomes more believeable.
Add in a big stack of IOU's from the future minority leader, and it makes political sense
Sucks, but makes sense.
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Un-damned-believable..........I mean seriously....the NRA is off the rails lately. >:( >:( >:( >:(
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As was previously posted, with a letter from NRA-PVF, regarding support for McCain, it's the "incumbent friendly policy" that can be a double edged sword.
Both Reid and McCain maybe lousy politicians; 1 RINO, 1 Flaming Liberal/Progressive asshat., HOWEVER, they are Pro-gun.
from the NRA/McCain thread.
NRA-PVF has an incumbent-friendly policy that requires our support for pro-gun incumbents seeking reelection. It is important that we stand with our friends who stand with us in Congress or the state legislatures. Of course, should a pro-gun challenger win his election and support the Second Amendment once in office, then he will be the beneficiary of this policy when seeking re-election.
My initial reaction was WTF???!!!
But if you look at strictly 2A, it becomes more believeable.
Add in a big stack of IOU's from the future minority leader, and it makes political sense
Sucks, but makes sense.
Bullseye r_w
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FTA:
Why would they do this? Why would they go out of their way to protect a Senator who has demonstrated a repeated hostility to the Second Amendment in his votes and his leadership?
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But, here is the problem. Reid has not supported the Second Amendment “every day.” Or ever.
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Reid has a lifetime rating of “F” from Gun Owners of America (who Ron Paul once called “the only no-compromise gun lobby in Washington”). GOA is actively supporting the 100% pro-gun Republican nominee, Sharron Angle, in her campaign to unseat Harry Reid.
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Same as with McC. We bought him, now it's time to pay up.
Are you a "Piker" ?
Just like the last thread, NRA is a one issue group, He delivered to gun owners so we owe him. Paying for service, just like any other whore.
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Both Reid and McCain maybe lousy politicians; 1 RINO, 1 Flaming Liberal/Progressive asshat., HOWEVER, they are Pro-gun.
Really, Gun Owners of America rates McCain as a C- and Reid as an F. I wouldn't exactly call that "Pro-gun". Unlike the NRA who now seems to don their knee pads to perform political felatio at the drop of the hat the GOA still tells it like it is. The ratings are based solely on the Senator/Representatives past voting record combined with a questionnaire that they (or, most likely, their staff filled out and returned). The NRA used to stand for and mean something but until their is a major change to their leadership and overall philosophies they won't see another dime of my money. Right now with their current views on free speech and incumbents among other issues, I view them as much more a part of the problem than the solution.
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In a surprising move (to me) the NRA just announced that they do not support confirmation of Kagan to the SCOTUS.
Even so, the NRA is making a whole lot of unfriendly gestures of late. We all support their 2-A work, but they seem to be missing the point on some really important issues.
Offered for consideration by Crusader who is giving serious consideration to a non-renewal policy.
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Even if the NRA is just lobbying for the NRA, as opposed to lobbying for NRA members, the things they do in other areas still makes them worthy of support.
Whittington Center, National Firearms Museum, various educational and training programs, all worth the cost of membership, even if the lobbying aspect did not exist.
My political action money goes to SAF or GOA though, JFPO is another good Organization. they are younger, far more aggressive organizations that were founded far more strictly as "Political Action" groups. While the NRA, founded in a time when guns were more normal than shoes, was formed to fight the threat of loss of interest in shooting, rather than any threat to shooting Rights..
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Even if the NRA is just lobbying for the NRA, as opposed to lobbying for NRA members, the things they do in other areas still makes them worthy of support.
Whittington Center, National Firearms Museum, various educational and training programs, all worth the cost of membership, even if the lobbying aspect did not exist.
My political action money goes to SAF or GOA though, JFPO is another good Organization. they are younger, far more aggressive organizations that were founded far more strictly as "Political Action" groups. While the NRA, founded in a time when guns were more normal than shoes, was formed to fight the threat of loss of interest in shooting, rather than any threat to shooting Rights..
+1...good points, Tom.
And, for clarification, I'm a NRA life member........ and while I have been confused and disappointed by some of their stances lately, I'm not going to suddenly 'renounce' my membership. There is still a great deal of things the NRA does right with their programs and such, and I still believe in their core fundamentals that the group was founded on. Maybe the board and hierarchy just needs a good house cleaning.
Like you, when it comes to the political arena, I will throw my money elsewhere when possible.
Peg
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I guess I was a little unclear. I am not renouncing my NRA membership, simply stating that unless they make some serious changes they shouldn't bother sending me anything for additional fundraising or action items. I'll still pay the regular membership dues when the time comes to renew but any additional funds I'd consider going there will be be going to GOA instead. I am glad I never did the Life Member thing a few years back when I came close. They still do enough good things that $35 a year or so is worth it but I'm so disgusted by their recent actions that I wouldn't want to be any more invested in their policies.
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The NRA is doing the right thing. If I lived in Az., I wouldn't vote for Reid. If I were head of the ILA, I'd endorse him. Why? If politicians don't think you'll stay loyal to them if they vote right they won't stay loyal to you. You dance with who brung you if you ever want a second date.
FQ13
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The NRA is doing the right thing. If I lived in Az., I wouldn't vote for Reid. If I were head of the ILA, I'd endorse him. Why? If politicians don't think you'll stay loyal to them if they vote right they won't stay loyal to you. You dance with who brung you if you ever want a second date.
FQ13
The only problem with that is while you're looking for Reid to dance he's snuck off down the hall and is feeling someone else up and when you finally see him again he pretends he doesn't know you. ;D
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Chris cox was on Cam & Co. last night, and he said the NRA hasn't even come close to endorsing ANY candidate.
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The NRA is doing the right thing. If I lived in Az., I wouldn't vote for Reid. If I were head of the ILA, I'd endorse him. Why? If politicians don't think you'll stay loyal to them if they vote right they won't stay loyal to you. You dance with who brung you if you ever want a second date.
FQ13
If you lived in AZ you couldn't vote for Reid.
He is in Nevada.
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If you lived in AZ you couldn't vote for Reid.
He is in Nevada.
College......lernt him reel gooodly, din't it?
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Its one of those flat dusty fly over states right? Az. has the sensible immigration laws and good food and Nv. has the hookers and gambling? Am I wrong? ;D :-[
FQ13
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Am I wrong? ;D :-[
FQ13
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Eric?
;D
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Eric?
;D
Dude, I'm going Fly Fishing in Mt. for two weeks on my dad's big trip. Don't harsh my mellow zen trout vibe. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13 who is already envisioning sunny meadows, bison and cold beer along with fat, dumb and happy trout.
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Dude, I'm going Fly Fishing in Mt. for two weeks on my dad's big trip. Don't harsh my mellow zen trout vibe. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13 who is already envisioning sunny meadows, bison and cold beer along with fat, dumb and happy trout.
If you're not going to be heeled, don't forget your pepper spray and little bells so they can identify your remains in the grizzle bear poop!
;)
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Dude, I'm going Fly Fishing in Mt. for two weeks on my dad's big trip. Don't harsh my mellow zen trout vibe. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13 who is already envisioning sunny meadows, bison and cold beer along with fat, dumb and happy trout.
"Them bulls'll hook ya."
Shameless Lonesome Dove referral.
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Reid is no different then McCain, both are pro re-election and would change sides in a heartbeat if it helped keep their seats.
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Personally, I'm not into the NRA bashing going on. They aren't the only organization involved in RKBA activities but they are at the forefront of this single issue. And they are a single issue organization. Also, let me say one more thing....There are at least 18 "D" senate seats up for grabs this year, as well at 18 "R" senate seats
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2010 ) . If we all do our part we can make the Reid/Schumer Majority Leader Issue a moot point. Take the majority away from the Dems and we'll have a Republican Majority Leader.
I received the following in an email from my local Member's Council. I put the Harry Reid issue at the top since that is what this thread is about...and you don't have to read the rest the email beyond that if you don't want to!
NEW TOPIC:
On the matter of Harry Reid, let me state this as simply as I possibly can. We the NRA have not endorsed Harry Reid. Has there been discussion? Of course there has. The problems here are extremely complex. I shall give you just one of the problems we at NRA are wrestling with. Harry Reid is the Senate Majority Leader. If he is defeated and the Democrats remain the majority party, the new Majority Leader will Chuck Schumer. As you know, the leader has a lot of power in deciding what gets to the floor who handles what etc. The prospect of fighting Schumer for at least two more years is not something anyone who cares about firearms freedom wants. That’s just one of the issues. The people at NRA are working tirelessly to ensure that not only all our members, but all firearms owners are protected as best as is possible. Let me close on this topic by stating again that NRA has not endorsed Harry Reid.
To all NRA Members' Councils:
This is a very long message and has a lot of details. You may not want to read it, and while I usually do not post to the MC Lists, in this case as the longest running Members Council President, I feel I have an obligation to my fellow MC people. Additionally, there has been so much mis-information about recent developments that felt obligated to try and clear up some of this up in the hopes it will help everyone get a clearer understanding about NRA and why it does what it does.
Allow me to begin with rumor that “NRA has sold out.”
To explain what has been happening it is necessary to go over some basic background information. Some most of you already know. The NRA is the only organization that is the defender of the Second Amendment. The others like to talk but when it comes to action, the NRA is the only one who walks the halls in Congress, visits the offices, works with the Congressional staff, writes proposed legislation, talks with all the governors, etc. Additionally NRA has over 180 different programs to help people who want to use firearms safely and wisely. While this may sound like it is some type, of rah, rah, rah, pro NRA there is a point to my going over this.
In 2002 McCain-Feingold bill was introduced. This bill made it illegal under penalty of Federal Prison for anyone that was a 501(c) (4) to say, print, etc anything about a candidate for office 30 days before a primary election and 60 days before a general election. It went so far as to stop any type of discussion, print, etc about issues related to the candidates. Meaning you could not say, “tell elected representative don’t vote for candidates bill." The stated purpose by then elected representative (names available if requested) of this bill was to silence the NRA.
NRA at that time went to house leaders and was told "we will fix it. If we can’t stop it in the house, we will fix it in the Senate." As you know this didn’t happen. McCain-Feingold became law. NRA filed suit and in the next year and half we spent 10 million dollars to loose in a 5-4 Supreme Court Decision that upheld the law. Since that time NRA has been seriously hobbled in that we have only been able to use a fraction (5%) of the money we have needed to get our message out.
Along comes 2008 primary and the "Citizens United" case and the Supreme Court in January 2010 the First Amendment of political speech was freed. Now everyone had the right restored and could spend money for political speech without the fear of going to Federal Prison. The victory was short lived. During the state of the union speech, Obama condemned the decision and within a very short time Rep. Chris Van Hollen and Sen. Chuck Schumer introduced the “DISCLOSE” Act. Although the Supreme Court clearly said that Congress can’t ban speech by corporations, both non-profit or for-profit. So to accomplish what McCain-Fiengold did the Van Hollen/Schumer bills would impose targeted speech bans on certain groups, along with a series of disclosure and reporting requirements so obnoxious they will intimidate people from speaking. And that “no-speech period” from the old McCain-Feingold law? Resurrected and expanded to 90 days before a primary election through the general election for House and Senate races; 120 days before the first primary through the general election for a Presidential race. Additionally, it would prohibit any organization that has a contract with the federal government of $50,000 or more from engaging in political speech. Currently we (the NRA) have a contract the Defense Department to provide firearms training for our Armed Forces Therefore, if it became law we would be forced to choose between training our military and exercising our First Amendment right to speak. Also we would have turn over our lists of donors who have donated $600 or more to the federal government. There is also no restriction on what the government could do with those lists. Lastly, we would be. required to list its CEO and top donors to the Association on all election mail, phone calls, TV, radio, and paid Internet ads. There would be no exception even for communications with our own members.
When the bill passed out of committee and went to the full House, the NRA sent a letter to Members of Congress opposing the bill in its current form and saying it would oppose House passage of the bill unless its concerns were addressed. Because the Democrats wanted so badly to pass this bill and because the pro-gun Democrats were worried, they went to Pelosi and said that the NRA should be exempted because we never hide from our ads and always clearly put our name on everything we do. The pro-gun Democrats knew that with a 40 vote majority, Pelosi could likely pass this bill over their objections without exempting the NRA. But surprisingly, she agreed to exempt the NRA from the bill, as long as the exemption was narrowed so that it only applied to the NRA and maybe one or two other large and long-established organizations.
We (the NRA) remain a non-partisan, single issue organization. It is our solemn duty and we are the only ones who have the ability and responsibility is to protect and defend the Second Amendment rights of our four million members as well as the 20 plus million people who claim to follow what the NRA does. The NRA does not represent the interests of other organizations, nor do all groups fight all issues together – for example, the NRA didn’t support the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (or the Wall Street Journal) when it backed amnesty for tens of millions of illegal aliens nor did it join the Chamber when it endorsed President Obama’s economic stimulus bill. And they were on opposite sides when the Chamber supported Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court.
Just as in McCain-Feingold, congressional Republicans told the NRA to reject all offers that would address our concerns with the Van Hollen bill. They promised to fix our concerns somewhere down the line. Now, they argued that NRA’s opposition would stop the bill from passing in the House. This with 257 Democrats in the House and a Senate with 59 Democrats.
We simply cannot afford in either lost opportunity or money to go down that road again. If we have an opportunity to protect our members right out of the gate and do not, why are we there? The stakes in this are too high, we cannot risk being silenced while the national news media, politicians and others remain free to attack gun owners.. The most potent defense of the Second Amendment requires the most adamant exercise of the First Amendment. And make no mistake about it -- if this Congress eliminates the NRA's ability to speak, it will attack the entire Second Amendment.
NEW TOPIC:
On the matter of Harry Reid, let me state this as simply as I possibly can. We the NRA have not endorsed Harry Reid. Has there been discussion? Of course there has. The problems here are extremely complex. I shall give you just one of the problems we at NRA are wrestling with. Harry Reid is the Senate Majority Leader. If he is defeated and the Democrats remain the majority party, the new Majority Leader will Chuck Schumer. As you know, the leader has a lot of power in deciding what gets to the floor who handles what etc. The prospect of fighting Schumer for at least two more years is not something anyone who cares about firearms freedom wants. That’s just one of the issues. The people at NRA are working tirelessly to ensure that not only all our members, but all firearms owners are protected as best as is possible. Let me close on this topic by stating again that NRA has not endorsed Harry Reid.
NEW TOPIC:
The Kagan nomination, this is a matter that will not require much to say. Contrary to what you might read by anti-NRA bloggers on the Internet, nobody stops the NRA Board Members from speaking. We are all elected by you the members and you are our ultimate judges by your votes. Having said that, when we are together and sometimes when we are not, we attempt to determine what will be in best interest of our members. Sometimes that means sending one letter and sometimes it means doing a lot of media. Everyone please try to remember we have some of the best people in DC not because we pay them so much but because our people really believe in what they are doing. Unlike so many groups the Second Amendment to use is something special, something worth fighting for.
In closing I hope I have been able to give all of you a better, truthful, no BS understanding of what has been happening.
Sincerely,
Joel Friedman
Member of the Board of Directors
National Rifle Association of American
Immediate past President of the San Gabriel Valley Members Council
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I will vote for Angle. If you do not live in Nevada, you may not be able to vote for her, but you can give her money. Use your favorite search engine to find her website, and please donate. Sharron needs all the help she can get. The Democrats are bashing her incessantly here. They make her out to be a crazy person who will wreck every Uncle Sugar plan on the books. Let us not let them get away with it. Send money to the Angle campaign now.